Solar panel fitting and review

[WelshGas]

Yes I have thought that too. Effectively what @Roger Donaghue says - a cable from LB positive to SB positive with a switch on it - a permanently in-place, switchable jump lead. Still makes me nervous because of what @Stoneybroke posted, but I can't see the harm myself. But then I know next to nothing about electrics and specifically the vehicle's charging systems.


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Not sounding like a good idea to me Ben as an electrical idiot. Carrying some good jump leads so you can jump between LB and SB does sound attractive but I have no idea how easy it is to access LB, one under seat I presume, or best jump leads to get.


Mike

Anderson Connectors is what you need.

 

[T6 CFO]

Anderson Connectors is what you need.

Thanks WG. They look the business. Think I will wait until I've got my Cali and order the right length. I intend to be doing a lot of wild remote camping. Will order compressor at the same time and hopefully locate both under bonnet somewhere.

Edit I shall go for just the good jump leads I think.

 

[Stoneybroke]

Just re-reading these comments, I'd really like to sort something out as I'm totally paranoid about flattening the SB.

I've just ordered myself a multimeter - first I've ever had! I think you're saying Stoneybroke that since the van is already equipped with a system to charge the SB with the EHU (presumably) connected to the LB, then maybe the solar panels are actually already charging the SB without me having to do anything?! That would be awesome

What's the best way to check this with my multimeter? Presumably just looking at the volts in the SB - maybe checking it last thing before going to bed and again a couple of hours into the morning?

I've got to the point of giving the stereo 3 runs at night (switching it on 3 times and letting it run until it switches itself off) with no problems starting in the morning. Obviously using the electric sliding door too. Feels like a bit of Russian roulette, especially as I tend to camp very wild where it's unlikely I'll be getting a breakdown van to me

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When I fitted my leisure battery and solar panel ( folding, plug in to sockets under the bonnet, but connected directly to the leisure battery) I put one of these in
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-us...dp?cmpid=ppc&gclid=CO_2jaDToswCFY9uGwod-5kC5g

to monitor the drain & charge as most of the time it it's just Mrs. S away with her dog agility and I wanted to know what was really happening.

This monitored it over a period, then you view on the PC through the supplied software. Try this on both batteries (or get two?) then you will get a true picture of what is going on.

 

[Roger Donoghue]

Very interesting job. Could you kindly explain a little bit the way you set your kit up in a t5 Beach? Thanks
Ignazio

Sorry - not been getting notifications of replies - will look into that!

In the Beach it's almost identical to the Cali, but I provide a much longer power cable to go from the solar regulator to the battery, as it is up at the front of the van. I've not seen a Beach in the flesh so I can't offer much more insight I'm afraid.

 

[Roger Donoghue]

Hi Roger, I just had a quick look in the VIP section and couldn't see what discount VIP members can get from you?
Also could you advise what your fitting charge is (naturally coming to you!)

Hi - I've not got round to looking at the VIP area yet! Will take a look this weekend

If you want the kit fitted with the cable run through the grommet, and the charger installed, and the remote LCD fitted, I charge £80 and it takes around 1.5 - 2 hours.

 

[benArrayx]

Not sounding like a good idea to me Ben as an electrical idiot. Carrying some good jump leads so you can jump between LB and SB does sound attractive but I have no idea how easy it is to access LB, one under seat I presume, or best jump leads to get.


Mike

I checked the LB under the left seat (driver's seat for me), it's got a rubber cover over it which basically prevents any access without tools. So I would say the jump lead idea is out!

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[Roger Donoghue]

Any cable, and/or switch placed between the 2 batteries must be rated for the maximum current that could be drawn.
This means the cable and switch must be the size of a good jumplead and preferably fused at both ends to avoid causing a fire if you accidentally cranked the engine and forgot to switch them apart.
Joining a flat battery to a fully charged battery can cause hundreds of amps to be drawn.
Please be carefull...

Appropriate cable and battery shunts are common on marine systems if you do a bit of googling...

Absolutely. It's the fusing, at both ends, that is vital - as most folk don't have 100Amp+ cable.

I used to sell split charging kits for Mazda Bongos. The cable was rated at 40 amps and I put 30 amp fuses at each end. It worked perfectly unless the customer over-flattened their battery - then the 30 amp fuses would blow in an instant - as designed. In normal use they were fine. If you had nto used fuses the cable would have melted/burnt!

 

[benArrayx]

When I fitted my leisure battery and solar panel ( folding, plug in to sockets under the bonnet, but connected directly to the leisure battery) I put one of these in
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-us...dp?cmpid=ppc&gclid=CO_2jaDToswCFY9uGwod-5kC5g

to monitor the drain & charge as most of the time it it's just Mrs. S away with her dog agility and I wanted to know what was really happening.

This monitored it over a period, then you view on the PC through the supplied software. Try this on both batteries (or get two?) then you will get a true picture of what is going on.

That's an awesome idea, thanks @Stoneybroke!! How low is too low in terms of volts for starting the engine?

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[zeratul]

Very interesting job. Could you kindly explain a little bit the way you set your kit up in a t5 Beach? Thanks
Ignazio

Yes, Roger, me too I'm very interested where to put the invertor and cables in a three seater T5/T6 beach.

Perhaps under the (UK driver/EU passenger) seat for the invertor? Where would you put the wires?
Do you have a picture?

 

[briwy]

Yes I have thought that too. Effectively what @Roger Donaghue says - a cable from LB positive to SB positive with a switch on it - a permanently in-place, switchable jump lead. Still makes me nervous because of what @Stoneybroke posted, but I can't see the harm myself. But then I know next to nothing about electrics and specifically the vehicle's charging systems.


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An alternative which we have is one of these.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/AFTERPARTZ/?tag=eliteelect-21

Ours isn't that particular one but does the job. I was very sceptical about these but got one on a Groupon offer for about forty quid so worth a punt. Pleasantly surprised at its starting capabilities. Can be charged from the mains and from a 12v socket. USB power out so can also recharge mobiles, satnavs etc. Takes up no space,can be moved from car to car and is almost certainly easier and safer to use than trying to get a jump lead onto the leisure battery terminal.

 

[Roger Donoghue]

Yes, Roger, me too I'm very interested where to put the invertor and cables in a three seater T5/T6 beach.

Perhaps under the (UK driver/EU passenger) seat for the invertor? Where would you put the wires?
Do you have a picture?

I'd have to have access to a Beach to know for sure. But I'd run the battery cables behind the passenger side interior panels. I'd put the solar regulator at the back somewhere preferably as it's best to keep the solar cable as short as possible. If someone wants one installed I'll do the 1st one for free on the basis that I'll then learn from it.

 

[benArrayx]

An alternative which we have is one of these.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/AFTERPARTZ/?tag=eliteelect-21

Ours isn't that particular one but does the job. I was very sceptical about these but got one on a Groupon offer for about forty quid so worth a punt. Pleasantly surprised at its starting capabilities. Can be charged from the mains and from a 12v socket. USB power out so can also recharge mobiles, satnavs etc. Takes up no space,can be moved from car to car and is almost certainly easier and safer to use than trying to get a jump lead onto the leisure battery terminal.

Thanks briwy. Am quite suspicious of the reviews on that page since they all seem to be sponsored!!! Have you actually used yours to start the van? What capacity / ampage have you got?

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[benArrayx]

I was just re-reading Roger's comments to me via mail. He suggested an alternative that does not involve connecting the LB to the SB at all, but instead connecting the positive output from the solar charger to the SB *and* the LB via a switch, meaning that the panels would EITHER be charging the LB OR the SB.

This seems to get around all the problems mentioned previously in terms of connecting the LB and SB together. This definitely seems like a good plan to me, lets me use the solar panels in the case I flatten the SB accidentally (or someone else does who I've leant the van to which is much more likely!) with no downsides other than having to fit a cable from the charger to the LB.

Given that jumping from the LB means sorting out the Anderson connectors (thanks for that tip WG, took me a while to realise what you were driving at!) a single cable from the solar charger may well be simpler.

In the case that I went the Anderson plug route, what rating booster cables are recommended? 600A? 800? 1000?

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[Ignazio]

I'd have to have access to a Beach to know for sure. But I'd run the battery cables behind the passenger side interior panels. I'd put the solar regulator at the back somewhere preferably as it's best to keep the solar cable as short as possible. If someone wants one installed I'll do the 1st one for free on the basis that I'll then learn from it.

If you want to make a little trip to northern Italy…I could easily be the first!

 

[Roger Donoghue]

Haha I used to live in Northern Italy in a little village near Valdobbiadene, and Asolo.

I'm in Tuscany in June but I'm not sure I can bring my tools on the easyjet hand luggage

 

[Ignazio]

Haha I used to live in Northern Italy in a little village near Valdobbiadene, and Asolo.

I'm in Tuscany in June but I'm not sure I can bring my tools on the easyjet hand luggage

Well…i'll be the second, or third or whatever
Thanks!

 

[CALI FATE]

I'd have to have access to a Beach to know for sure. But I'd run the battery cables behind the passenger side interior panels. I'd put the solar regulator at the back somewhere preferably as it's best to keep the solar cable as short as possible. If someone wants one installed I'll do the 1st one for free on the basis that I'll then learn from it.

Hi Roger - i am interested in an install - i have a T6 Beach and based in Gloucestershire. Can we chat - thanks Tim

 

[benArrayx]

Ok, thanks to @WelshGas 's awesome advice, I have purchased the following booster kit: http://www.flatdoguk.com/flatdog-battery-booster-kit---4m~833

I figured it's a bit crazy to buy *another* battery when I already have 2 really good ones which are being recharged!!

Also bought the USB voltage logger from Maplin to be able to see what's going on - thanks @Stoneybroke!

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[benArrayx]

Quick question for the electrical folks - I've fitted the cables with Anderson connector to the LB under the front seat. I'm now sorting out the cable to link to the SB. Am I correct in thinking that I don't need a negative cable, I just need to connect the positives? Since both batteries are already connected to the same chassis? That would save some weight, the cables weigh a ton (well about 5kg )

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[Loz]

You should never rely on the chassis for return, period.

 

[benArrayx]

You should never rely on the chassis for return, period.

The manual says not to connect to the negative terminal of the SB, but to connect to the engine block or something connected to the engine block. Doesn't the chassis meet that criteria? There's even a graphic on the SB itself saying don't connect the negative terminal.

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[MattBW]

There is also a warning label on the vehicle battery telling you not to connect the negative direct to battery. I think it can cause alarm issues?


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[Loz]

It's never a good idea to use the chassis for return as you cannot guarantee a complete path due to the bonding materials used in modern monocoque construction, suspension isolation etc.
The note you refer to is all about jump starting where you are trying to creat the shortest path for the current flow and connecting to the engine is effectively connecting to the case of the starter motor. This is a temporary situation, where as this question is about creating a tandem battery shunt between the LB and SB.

Modern VW systems being monitored for current consumption, the cable between the battery negative and the vehicle chassis has a current monitoring module in line that is used to calculate how much power is being drawn from the battery and when it has to send can bus messages to shutdown systems to conserve power.

If you use a solar charger to top up such a system it is preferable to use a chassis connection close to the battery so that the vehicle knows it is being charged, however for a simple jump start this monitoring is not really relevant but high current draw is.

 

[Roger Donoghue]

Just a heads up chaps - I don't get notifications on posts on here, well, certainly not all of them, so if you want to contact me send me a PM or drop a message via my email / website, or I might miss you.

I've replied to (and sorted) Cali Fate.

 

[WelshGas]

Quick question for the electrical folks - I've fitted the cables with Anderson connector to the LB under the front seat. I'm now sorting out the cable to link to the SB. Am I correct in thinking that I don't need a negative cable, I just need to connect the positives? Since both batteries are already connected to the same chassis? That would save some weight, the cables weigh a ton (well about 5kg )

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Personally I would use both + and - cables attached to engine block and battery correctly. The cables can be stored under the bonnet in the space in front of the battery. Well thats where mine is.

By not using the - Cable you are dependant on there being GOOD continuity between the Leisure and Starter batteries via the chassis which may not be the case for such a large current load.