Solar panel fitting and review

[briwy]

This is the AAs advice on using jump leads.

"Use the red jump lead to connect the positive terminal of the donor vehicle's good battery to the positive terminal of the flat battery. Then use the black lead to connect the negative terminal of the good battery to a suitable earthing point on the engine or chassis of the other vehicle"

 

[benArrayx]

It's never a good idea to use the chassis for return as you cannot guarantee a complete path due to the bonding materials used in modern monocoque construction, suspension isolation etc.
The note you refer to is all about jump starting where you are trying to creat the shortest path for the current flow and connecting to the engine is effectively connecting to the case of the starter motor. This is a temporary situation, where as this question is about creating a tandem battery shunt between the LB and SB.

Modern VW systems being monitored for current consumption, the cable between the battery negative and the vehicle chassis has a current monitoring module in line that is used to calculate how much power is being drawn from the battery and when it has to send can bus messages to shutdown systems to conserve power.

If you use a solar charger to top up such a system it is preferable to use a chassis connection close to the battery so that the vehicle knows it is being charged, however for a simple jump start this monitoring is not really relevant but high current draw is.

Hi Loz, the question is actually about jump starting the starter battery from the leisure battery. I already discounted charging the starter battery from the solar panels due to previous comments on this thread, but also I don't actually need to if I can jump the SB from the LB, which is what I've now done by setting up an Anderson plug connected to the LB under the front seat. This is my final question on that point, given that the cables (and the crocodile clip) are very heavy (given their size) and that I could potentially halve that weight if I could get rid of the negative cable, but from what everyone is saying using the chassis is not reliable enough so I should not do that.

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[Stoneybroke]

This is my final question on that point, given that the cables (and the crocodile clip) are very heavy (given their size) and that I could potentially halve that weight if I could get rid of the negative cable, but from what everyone is saying using the chassis is not reliable enough so I should not do that.

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I would not be happy doing what you are suggesting; when jumping one car to another, each is isolated from the other. The order of positive, then negative is recommended as this minimises the risk of shorting.
In this case the negatives on both batteries are already permanently connected, any inadvertent touch of that live cable to any bodywork and bang... I am not sure what effect that bang would have on the others electronics also connected by that common negative earth.

 

[WelshGas]

I would not be happy doing what you are suggesting; when jumping one car to another, each is isolated from the other. The order of positive, then negative is recommended as this minimises the risk of shorting.
In this case the negatives on both batteries are already permanently connected, any inadvertent touch of that live cable to any bodywork and bang... I am not sure what effect that bang would have on the others electronics also connected by that common negative earth.

Because there is an Anderson connector then I would connect the Crocadile clips first and then plug in the Anderson plug.
The other way is to cover the external surface of the + clip with some insulating material because you only need the internal teeth to make a connection.

 

[Stoneybroke]

Because there is an Anderson connector then I would connect the Crocadile clips first and then plug in the Anderson plug.
The other way is to cover the external surface of the + clip with some insulating material because you only need the internal teeth to make a connection.

That would be safer. A big fuse too, just in case?
Would a better solution be to use a twin battery solar controller to charge both batteries independently from the solar panels ?
Such as
https://www.solarpowersupply.co.uk/...oller-12-24v?gclid=CLeVuonJr8wCFegp0wodzXEFMQ
That would mean cables through to the engine bay, but you would be safe in the knowledge that both batteries are getting some extra charging .

 

[WelshGas]

That would be safer. A big fuse too, just in case?
Would a better solution be to use a twin battery solar controller to charge both batteries independently from the solar panels ?
Such as
https://www.solarpowersupply.co.uk/...oller-12-24v?gclid=CLeVuonJr8wCFegp0wodzXEFMQ
That would mean cables through to the engine bay, but you would be safe in the knowledge that both batteries are getting some extra charging .

Personally I think the easy option would be to wire the radio into the Leisure Battery. If that was done I bet you would never have to resort to using the Leisure Battery to jump start.

 

[Stoneybroke]

Personally I think the easy option would be to wire the radio into the Leisure Battery. If that was done I bet you would never have to resort to using the Leisure Battery to jump start.

Yes, I think I agree.

I'm still very tempted by Roger's no drill roof panels though, neater than my current folding one.

 

[WelshGas]

Yes, I think I agree.

I'm still very tempted by Roger's no drill roof panels though, neater than my current folding one.

That's what I have, not the glued on one but the bolt on one. Works perfectly.

 

[Robowagen]

Surely your going to quickly kill your leisure battery using it to jump start a flat starter battery?


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[WelshGas]

Surely your going to quickly kill your leisure battery using it to jump start a flat starter battery?


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It might have an effect, but it is on a Solar Panel and this is a purely emergency measure when camping seriously off-grid.

 

[Robowagen]

It might have an effect, but it is on a Solar Panel and this is a purely emergency measure when camping seriously off-grid.

I suppose it would get you going again if really needed!

 

[T6 CFO]

Yes, I think I agree.

I'm still very tempted by Roger's no drill roof panels though, neater than my current folding one.

Was kindly invited to have a look at SimonB's Cali with Rogers panel today. Very tidy job and one will most certainly be going on mine when I get it.

 

[benArrayx]

Because there is an Anderson connector then I would connect the Crocadile clips first and then plug in the Anderson plug.
The other way is to cover the external surface of the + clip with some insulating material because you only need the internal teeth to make a connection.

Both crocodile clips have plastic external casings all round

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[benArrayx]

Personally I think the easy option would be to wire the radio into the Leisure Battery. If that was done I bet you would never have to resort to using the Leisure Battery to jump start.

"Easy" in this case means a trip to a garage (dealer has already refused to do it on instructions from VW), and potential warranty issues.

The cables on the other hand I've already setup myself and now I don't have any worries about what I'm doing with the LB as I'll always be able to sort a flat LB (for any reason, not just use of the stereo), with no warranty worries or time spent getting it sorted.

I'm very happy with this solution, many thanks to all you guys and especially @WelshGas and @Stoneybroke for all the great advice and information

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[Roger Donoghue]

A tip on using your LB to jumpstart your SB, if you ever need to.

When you connect the two batteries, leave them for 5 minutes before attempting a start. This will let the LB "charge" the SB a fair bit, so that when you crank the engine, most of the initial bust of power will come from the SB, or at least it will share the burden rather than passing all the work to the LB.

Leisure batteries usually have thinner plates inside them that are more suitable to low/slow discharge applications. Starter batteries have thicker plates that are more suited to high amperage , short term loads.

When you crank from a leisure battery you risk warping the thin plates inside the battery. The general consensus is you can do it, but best only in a pinch if you want to look after your LB, and let it equalise a bit for 5 mins first.

The Cali batteries are AGM batteries so quite costly I imagine!

I've jumpstarted from a LB before with no issues. It was a quick starting diesel engine too. I wouldn't want to do it with an engine that requires a lot of cranking - that would put an extended load on the LB.

 

[benArrayx]

A tip on using your LB to jumpstart your SB, if you ever need to.

When you connect the two batteries, leave them for 5 minutes before attempting a start. This will let the LB "charge" the SB a fair bit, so that when you crank the engine, most of the initial bust of power will come from the SB, or at least it will share the burden rather than passing all the work to the LB.

Leisure batteries usually have thinner plates inside them that are more suitable to low/slow discharge applications. Starter batteries have thicker plates that are more suited to high amperage , short term loads.

When you crank from a leisure battery you risk warping the thin plates inside the battery. The general consensus is you can do it, but best only in a pinch if you want to look after your LB, and let it equalise a bit for 5 mins first.

The Cali batteries are AGM batteries so quite costly I imagine!

I've jumpstarted from a LB before with no issues. It was a quick starting diesel engine too. I wouldn't want to do it with an engine that requires a lot of cranking - that would put an extended load on the LB.

Thanks for that Roger, will keep in mind!!

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[fred]

Another happy customer of @Roger Donoghue here.

 

[calimera]

Another happy customer of @Roger Donoghue here.

Good to hear. We plan to use Roger to fit a solar panel.

Should get our new Ocean soon. He has been quick to reply to our emails.

 

[Gavinskii]

I had a 100w solar panel, MPPT charger and remote display fitted by Roger yesterday.

It was a slick operation, taking Roger just under 1hr 15mins.
It is a very neat installation and should ensure more off the grid adventures and also increase the longevity of my leisure batteries.

 

[Sp0_0k]

The Cali batteries are AGM batteries .

Are you sure about that? I have a strong feeling Cali has same acid batteries and keep in mind that stop and go doesn't use a classic auxiliary battery for starting as well.
No way 3-4 starts from a deep cycle battery can damage it Well if you are cranking it for minutes it might.

 

[Roger Donoghue]

It depends on the cali seemingly. I've seen several where the aux batteries were AGM and one whith standard lead acid.

Indeed you can get away with starting off them, it's just not recommended to repeatedly do it.

Was nice to meet you Gavin, thanks for the feedback.

 

[SimonB]

When we got the Cali we very soon had a list of must have's and after contacting Roger solar power was put on the list to be looked at further when the weather improved.

After a lot of discussion with some very helpful solar panel users at the Lower Lode meet a few weeks ago, we went for the standard 100w panel with an MPPT charger upgrade and an additional LCD display which means it is easier to see what is happening.

I can only echo the review that BerndRos has written. We had decided to ask Roger to install it for us.
I went to Taunton yesterday to have mine fitted.Taunton being not far from us and it gave us a chance for a drive. Excellent instructions on how to find him. Like BerndRos I was very impressed by the kit, the thought that had gone into making it and how Roger patiently explained how it worked and what it all did. Our Cali is Pearl Black and thoughtfully Roger had sprayed the end pieces of the supporting brackets in black so they would be less conspicuous. He planned the fixing points for the MPPT controller and the LCD display very carefully to minimise cable runs and screw holes in the cupboards. As soon as it was connected, about 1½ hours, it began recording a charge going into the leisure batteries. Parking on the street, it is difficult to run an EHU hookup once a month to keep the leisure batteries charged and prolong their life.
We have a Cali Topper which I find useful in N Wales to keep the rain off the bellows and keep the temperature in the top bed a bit higher. At the meet Briwy said that Nick can now put a plastic window in the Cali Topper to let light onto the panel if you want to have the topper on as well. Nick said that if I had the panel installed before the meet he could take the topper back with him to save the courier costs one way at least.

I can only commend Roger's professionalism, very helpful personality and the design of the solar generating kit that he makes and installs.

Update:-
Nick from Comfortz proposed putting a window in the Topper over where the solar panel is. Briwy had found that this worked well so I discussed it with Nick. He took the topper with him from the June meet, I had marked out the position of the panel. It came back yesterday and we have just put it on the Belle.
The solar panel is still putting power into the Leisure batteries with the cover in place so we can keep the rain out, the top bed a little warmer and still get the benefit of the power from the solar panel. It's a superb job Nick, looks as though it has always been there.
Many thanks to Briwy and others for the idea & Nick for carrying it out.

 

[T6 CFO]

Update:-
Nick from Comfortz proposed putting a window in the Topper over where the solar panel is. Briwy had found that this worked well so I discussed it with Nick. He took the topper with him from the June meet, I had marked out the position of the panel. It came back yesterday and we have just put it on the Belle.
The solar panel is still putting power into the Leisure batteries with the cover in place so we can keep the rain out, the top bed a little warmer and still get the benefit of the power from the solar panel. It's a superb job Nick, looks as though it has always been there.
Many thanks to Briwy and others for the idea & Nick for carrying it out.

Excellent I shall be up for a wander up the hill to have a look when I get my Cali and before I get Nick to alter my topper.

NB: We both live in Bristol and Simon is at the top of the hill. Hence his new electric bike


Mike

 

[MattBW]

What's the difference in output with and without the cover out of interest?

We have been pondering a suitcase panel.


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[SimonB]

What's the difference in output with and without the cover out of interest?

We have been pondering a suitcase panel.


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There seemed to be very little difference, but that was starting with a charged leisure battery.
I put the fridge on to get a bit of drain on the battery, but that was after the topper was on. It was charging happily with the sun shining through the new panel.
The Cali happened to be well positioned, facing towards the sun and with the roof up, correctly angled towards the sun too.
I'll test it over the next few weeks as we are off to some sites where there are no EHU points, so I'll have a better idea.
I suppose the big test will be in the darker months when the drain on the battery is increased, but the sun is lower in the sky and less effective.