140 or 180 dsg

[motacyclist]

We have found a 140dsg we really like, but wonder if it will be powerful enough to get us fully laden (2 kids + bikes and all the other stuff, we won't be light!) up mountain passes abroad.

I say yes!

 

[Volky]

Thanks all, we've made our decision and gone for the 180dsg (Paul, be very interested if you look into increasing payload). Very happy! Now just have to think about what we do - and don't - need inside. Any must-have accessories?

 

[JohnnyP]

Its very similar to people who buy a Porsche Boxster, they really want a 911 but would never admit it

This comment will get a few bites, just a nibble from me though
Pro's and cons's to both, having test driven the 140hp I thought it certainly wasn't under powered. VW wouldn't offer the 140hp if wasn't up to the job for the Cali.

 

[Borris]

Thanks all, we've made our decision and gone for the 180dsg (Paul, be very interested if you look into increasing payload). Very happy! Now just have to think about what we do - and don't - need inside. Any must-have accessories?

Hi Volky,
I will make enquiries about uprating the rear springs and let you know what I find out.
Re your fit out, everyone has a diferent solution. We bought 4 x 35 litre Really Useful Boxes. They fit into the boot section perfectly. When prepairing food and eating outside you can stack them and use them to put things on etc. Under the sink we have used a selection of click top plastic boxes for tea, coffee and other food stuffs. What ever you end up doing, it seems to me that it helps if you are a bit OCD. Every thing has to have its place and it has taken us several attempts to get everything sorted and easy to hand and I am sure we still have adjustments to make. The plastic box route seems to work for us and most importantly there aren't too many rattles.
Good luck with your purchase. You won't regret it.
Paul

 

[Volky]

Paul, thanks again, boxes sound sensible. Will wait to hear about those springs...

 

[Borris]

Paul, thanks again, boxes sound sensible. Will wait to hear about those springs...

Hi Volky,
Just to re-cap our 180 dsg 4 Motion has a brochure quoted payload of 446kgs in standard form without any optional extras. This 446kgs has to include all occupants, water, habitation clobber, personal effects, canoes, bikes, awnings, optional extras and if you tow, the nose weight of your trailer. This is a very tight allowance that could prove to be a problem under some circumstances. It also raises the question, how many owners over load their Calis?

Having made enquiries with the dealer from whom we purchased our Cali, they said that they have never had a Cali customer who wanted to uprate their springs and payload and were therefore unable to give me a ball park figure there and then, as to how much it would cost. They did say that many commercial Transporter vans run fully loaded, their entire life, without issue but that isn't really my point.
However it seems to me that if you did decide to upgrade it could potentially lead to other issues such as:
Would it effect ride quality?
Would it effect the warranty?
Would it effect the insurance?
Would it require stronger wheels?
Would it require different tyres?
Would the brakes need uprating?
Would you need to apply for and have approval for the upgraded load rating.
You would also need to notify the DVLA of the changes.

Whilst I haven't researched this issue any further at this time, I don't imagine that any of these points would prove to be a major problem (if they are problems at all). Never the less, I have decided to tackle this lack of payload issue by managing the contents to suit the occasion. That may seem blindingly obvious but I just wonder how many owners have actually considered this matter closely?

If we need to take ourselves and two adult passengers with us, then that will take us right up to and possibly over the permitted GVW. Therefore we will have to offload some of our habitation equipment. As it will only ever be the two of us sleepnig in the vehicle (with the possible exception of a couple of small grandchildren), this shouldn't be an issue.
If we tow, then it is almost always to a veteran car rally where we always stay in hotels. Therefore, I will just have to throw some of our habitation equipment overboard for the duration of the trip.

In the two to three years research that I carried out prior to buying, I thought I had covered everything however this issue came as a bit of a shock when I took our fully provisioned Cali to our local weigh bridge. It weighed 2.9 tonnes! That was with my wife and I, a full tank of fuel but no water or any bikes, Canoes or a trailer that some owners insist on taking with them. The Max permitted Gross Vehicle Weight for this model is 3.08 tonnes. With a full tank of water that leaves a 150 kgs margin!

Sorry all, this post has gone a bit off subject.

Best wishes
Paul

 

[VW KID]

I've got a 140 and drove both before buying as I had the same dilemma? My reasons were that the 180 was very disappointing I couldn't find the extra 40bhp which in my opinion should be very noticeable. Also if you have turbo troubles it's not one to replace its two I was buying used so I was thinking about when warranties run out. I also wasn't impressed with the DSG and again if you have trouble later in life can cost a small fortune to repair. At the end of the day everyone has different tastes and driving styles so go and drive both and see what you think and buy what you prefer? I was set on a 180 until I drove one and it changed my mind. I'm sure whatever you decide will be right for you

 

[Shane&Michelle]

We have only just purchased our Cali, we decided we wanted a DSG and had the opportunity to test drive both for around a week each. We felt the 180 won hands down when it came to response / acceleration with the 2 turbo’s . We felt there was not much difference when upto cruising speed on the motorway. Unfortunately we live in the fens so didn’t get a chance to test uphill fully loaded. We felt the better performance outweighed the extra running costs. 180 DSG 4Motion for us.

 

[shudycamps]

Hi all, very excited as husband and I have finally decided to buy a Cali. We have found a 140dsg we really like, but wonder if it will be powerful enough to get us fully laden (2 kids + bikes and all the other stuff, we won't be light!) up mountain passes abroad. Should we pay the extra for a 180. Dsg is a must for easy cruising. Thanks!

We have a 140 and we travel with six dogs, two bikes and folded up dog buggy. A l8 team cage on the back shelf and as much as I can cram in the space underneath. ZuluCampi pulls like the champers she is.

 

[Kaydee]

The Californias are great vehicles and everyone who buys one will have their own requirements regarding power and gearbox.
General principles regarding engines ( not just Calis ) if an engine comes in several states of tune eg 140 or 180 it is generally accepted that the lower state of tune will be the less stressed unit,common sense really ,thats not to say it will inevitably be more reliable but it is reasonable to assume an engine that isnt tuned as highly will on the whole suffer less over a long period of time or very high mileage.Given that all the major engine components are common to both power outputs ,just ask yourself which do you think will last the longest ,a big old engine that isnt overly stressed or a big old engine that is always working harder to produce the power.
Also on the whole manual gearboxes are pretty bombproof and will ,if you plan to keep your van for a long time and / or put on a big mileage tend to need far less maintenance ,manual boxes these days tend to be sealed ,many for life.
DSGs are great but are more fragile and are expensive to repair outside warranty.Just general ideas from industry.

 

[WelshGas]

Personally, couldn't care less whether the 140 is less stressed or will last longer than the 180, nor if the manual gear box is better/ last longer than the DSG and likewise for the 4Motion with or without the Diff Lock.
I am retired, am enjoying myself, have covered 20,000 miles in 11 months in my bought new SE and have planned similar in 2016.
The 180 with DSG and 4Motion is the vehicle for me. When/If the T7 California comes out in 2020 then I will change and whoever buys my "Van" can worry as I am just enjoying it.

Diesel engines are built to be used. Properly serviced and used they can outlast the vehicle. What they don't like is standing idle or chugging along at 30 in top gear.

Just my own personal thoughts. Each to his own.

 

[GrannyJen]

If my overstressed 180 engine blows up or my ever so fragile DSG gearbox shatters into a million pieces then I will get someone to repair it.

I haven't driven a vehicle with a manual gearbox for about 30 years and never had a gearbox let me down. The only engine that I have ever had blow up on me was in a Ford Explorer that was doing rather well off-road in Canyonlands national park, Utah when there was a horrible metallic grinding noise and the whole thing shuddered to an inglorious stop

I am looking forward to taking a 150 cali for a drive when I can get my hands on one, but it will have to be a DSG and then that leaves me with the dilemma of can I do without 4WD. I suspect the answer will be no.

 

[Kaydee]

I didnt say they were ever so fragile and if you dont mind the simple fact they cost more to maintain good for you,really,good for you.
It is a fact unfortunately that the more power you squeeze out of any engine the reliability suffers a bit,and again if you dont mind good for you,but I know 4 VW owners who have had DSG problems ,two with Calis and two others with the same engine in other VW vehicles,and went back to manuals.
I have never driven one ,I dont have an axe to grind and if you want a DSG ,great ,have one but just dont be getting all defensive about the fact that the complexity of DSG makes long term ownership a commitment and an expense which one of my good friends couldnt live with ,hence the change to manual.
It isnt a competition,its just a few pointers,thats all.

 

[sbmcd]

Drove the 140 in a test drive before we bought our 180 manual, safer overtaking and bigger brakes made the 180 an easy decision for us.

 

[larrylamb]

On a positive note for the 140 i was very impressed with the 40.8mpg i averaged after 110 miles returning from York last week. Engine seems to be loosening up nicely.

 

[GrannyJen]

On a positive note for the 140 i was very impressed with the 40.8mpg i averaged after 110 miles returning from York last week. Engine seems to be loosening up nicely.

I was impressed when I hired one. I think it is a brilliant compromise. I will be very interested in hiring a 150 for a few days, it's just the lack of 4WD with DSG that restricts me from ordering.

As many have observed the Cali is not a vehicle to go racing in, and also not one to go serious off-roading in, so my mantra of "must be 4WD" may be challenged when I get into a 150.

Pro's and cons and each pro and each con a matter of personal taste.

 

[Volky]

Think it's an interesting debate. Thanks for the industry update and driving feedback. We were wondering about waiting for the new T6, but thought we'd go for the known engine, rather than the new in the hope of fewer teething problems. Oh, and saving on the extra cost!!!

 

[GrannyJen]

I didnt say they were ever so fragile and if you dont mind the simple fact they cost more to maintain good for you,really,good for you.
It is a fact unfortunately that the more power you squeeze out of any engine the reliability suffers a bit,and again if you dont mind good for you,but I know 4 VW owners who have had DSG problems ,two with Calis and two others with the same engine in other VW vehicles,and went back to manuals.
I have never driven one ,I dont have an axe to grind and if you want a DSG ,great ,have one but just dont be getting all defensive about the fact that the complexity of DSG makes long term ownership a commitment and an expense which one of my good friends couldnt live with ,hence the change to manual.
It isnt a competition,its just a few pointers,thats all.

I agree with you. The added complications of the 180 have created reliability problems for many, I am not being dismissive, but I do not see reliability as being so questionable that for me it will be a serious consideration.

After all Albert has managed to survive with me driving him for 25,000 miles, a Medal of honour for any vehicle (says the one who publicly trashed a brand new range rover on a magazine test drive .... oh, well, back to writing history books )....

 

[WelshGas]

1. Whose competing?
2. Suggest you talk to the experts on EMU programming. Not VW.
3. Not All, but most of the perceived problems with the DSG are operator error. It is NOT an automatic gearbox with torque converter, and of course you know 4 VW owners with DSG vehicles that have problems. ( I know more without ) Sorry mustn't compete.
4. If people didn't buy the 180 or DSG then VW wouldn't make them and probably increase the price of the 140 to make up the shortfall.

The differences in reliability/ longevity of different engines and gearboxes is very small, otherwise the car manufacturers wouldn't be selling anything but low power engines and manual transmissions. Most, if not all drive trains with proper maintenance etc will probably outlast the projected 10/15 yr lifespan of the vehicle.

Whether maintenance costs are high or low is immaterial. They are part of the cost analysis any owner should make when researching a vehicle purchase and if you cannot afford them then you would be foolish to purchase. And tough if your engine fails because you didn't change the cam belt according to the manufacturers schedule because of the cost. I am certainly not buying, driving etc: for the benefit of the next owner.

 

[Kaydee]

Welshgas,you have one point of view ,i have another,you dont know my background in the motor industry and I dont know yours,lets just leave it at that.
I am delighted you are happy with your choice,be well ,live long and prosper.
One thing though ,maintenance cost are very far from immaterial to some folks, and in any vehicle range there will be the workhorses and the high tech versions,you are quite right about doing the research,but unfortunately many makers still hide the facts about failures from the buying public..
VW haven' t been fully up front just lately ,have they, I own a California and love it, just dont believe everything you hear.

 

[WelshGas]

Never have, never will.