180 bhp oil consumption issue

[WelshGas]

I'd still want to see a photo of the egr sticker. '/c's were being fitted until quite recently.

Someone has just posted a 2010 with D suffix EGR.
If it was just the EGR that was problematic then every 180 prior to the D EGR would have this problem, but they all seem to be engines manufactured in 2010/2011.

 

[2into1]

Someone has just posted a 2010 with D suffix EGR.

I'm not sure of the point you are making. I've seen tonights post you refer to and clearly the EGR has been changed to a D recently (as it only appeared c2015). It seems his engine was on the way to being knackered and the owner fitted a D in an attempt to stave off disaster, which hasn't worked.

If it was just the EGR that was problematic then every 180 prior to the D EGR would have this problem, but they all seem to be engines manufactured in 2010/2011.

This isn't of your normal standard of debate Welshgas. Nobody is saying that every 'non D' van will fail. There are however plenty of 2012/13/14 vans documented on the facebook group that have lost compression and are supping a dipstick' worth of oil per tank of fuel. Those vans have 'earlier than D' EGR valves. The couple of 'earlier than D' valves that have been cut open from those failed engines all showed significant corrosion and were missing lots of alloy that can only have gone into the engines.

 

[WelshGas]

I'm not sure of the point you are making. I've seen tonights post you refer to and clearly the EGR has been changed to a D recently (as it only appeared c2015). It seems his engine was on the way to being knackered and the owner fitted a D in an attempt to stave off disaster, which hasn't worked.


This isn't of your normal standard of debate Welshgas. Nobody is saying that every 'non D' van will fail. There are however plenty of 2012/13/14 vans documented on the facebook group that have lost compression and are supping a dipstick' worth of oil per tank of fuel. Those vans have 'earlier than D' EGR valves. The couple of 'earlier than D' valves that have been cut open from those failed engines all showed significant corrosion and were missing lots of alloy that can only have gone into the engines.

I would dispute the “ plenty “ of examples. It is in fact quit a small % of the total built and virtually all of those affected are 2010/2011 engines. There is no hard evidence just theories, and what I can’t get my head around is the fact that if the EGR breakdown causes particles to damage the cylinder bores then why is there no evidence of Turbo failure whose bearings are lubricated by the same oil.

 

[El Greco]

I would dispute the “ plenty “ of examples. It is in fact quit a small % of the total built and virtually all of those affected are 2010/2011 engines. There is no hard evidence just theories, and what I can’t get my head around is the fact that if the EGR breakdown causes particles to damage the cylinder bores then why is there no evidence of Turbo failure whose bearings are lubricated by the same oil.

Perhaps because the aluminium oxide particles are embedded into the cylinder walls and few find their way into the oil? Just an idea.

 

[Trebor]

No one can tell you, because no one knows with a 100% certainty what the original problem was. What's the chance that you'll still be driving in 10 yrs? Not all engines were affected in 2010/2011 so the chances are minimal, probably.

Welsh gas . Is it possible to have your engine oil analysed to test for egr problem ?

 

[WelshGas]

Welsh gas . Is it possible to have your engine oil analysed to test for egr problem ?

Yes, Millers can do it. They send a kit when you buy the test. You take a sample and return it and get the results in about a week.

 

[burnercan]

EGR breakdown causes particles to damage the cylinder bores then why is there no evidence of Turbo failure whose bearings are lubricated by the same oil.

Having zero experience with this particular problem on these particular engines, I would suggest that a large amount of the oil in the bores is splash oil from the spinning crank. Bits of debris could find their way, unfiltered, into the clearance between the skirt and the bore. The turbo on the other hand, I would expect to be downstream of the filter. Just a though.

 

[Crell]

I would dispute the “ plenty “ of examples. It is in fact quit a small % of the total built and virtually all of those affected are 2010/2011 engines. .

What's the affected % of the 180 CFCA production base? Sorry that's just conjecture on conjecture (and nobody has disputed that it's mostly 2010 / 11 engines that were losing compression, but there have been ongoing examples.)

Back to the OP, there is no "Definitive answer or fix" and VW did little to formally acknowledge the problem, parts and engines have been replaced. If you're buying a 2010 now you're completely on your own. If you do have a problem, you'll notice oil consumption rise over a period of time and ultimately the engine will start to lose compression; becoming harder to turn the engine over on start.

The fix at that point is an engine replacement at 6-8k IIRC. That's the gamble you're taking without knowing the actual odds. I wish someone had set up some kind of register.

 

[WelshGas]

What's the affected % of the 180 CFCA production base? Sorry that's just conjecture on conjecture (and nobody has disputed that it's mostly 2010 / 11 engines that were losing compression, but there have been ongoing examples.)

Back to the OP, there is no "Definitive answer or fix" and VW did little to formally acknowledge the problem, parts and engines have been replaced. If you're buying a 2010 now you're completely on your own. If you do have a problem, you'll notice oil consumption rise over a period of time and ultimately the engine will start to lose compression; becoming harder to turn the engine over on start.

The fix at that point is an engine replacement at 6-8k IIRC. That's the gamble you're taking without knowing the actual odds. I wish someone had set up some kind of register.

But the Original Poster is talking about a 2010/2011 180 that has had the engine replaced already and what are the chances of the problem recurring? I very much doubt it will but who knows it could but for another reason or the same reason . I don't know.

 

[AlanC]

But the Original Poster is talking about a 2010/2011 180 that has had the engine replaced already and what are the chances of the problem recurring? I very much doubt it will but who knows it could but for another reason or the same reason . I don't know.

No quite, as I read it he said 'VW carried out extensive engine parts replacement' including the EGR, not a whole new engine.

Alan

 

[WelshGas]

No quite, as I read it he said 'VW carried out extensive engine parts replacement' including the EGR, not a whole new engine.

Alan

I know there are no 100% guarantees . I guess what I’m asking is has anyone who had the engine / EGR replacements held onto the vehicle for another 80K or bought one post engine change and driven it another 80K and did the problem repeat itself ? Probably hard to find a van that 7 years old that’s done that kind of Mileage though .

Spoke to the garage that carried out the engine / parts replacement . They assured me all parts ( EGR etc) were to the latest spec at the time and the vehicle is still under warranty with them for the parts and work they did . They say I can reasonably expect the engine to last

I read that as the engine + other parts replaced.

 

[briwy]

I would dispute the “ plenty “ of examples. It is in fact quit a small % of the total built and virtually all of those affected are 2010/2011 engines. There is no hard evidence just theories, and what I can’t get my head around is the fact that if the EGR breakdown causes particles to damage the cylinder bores then why is there no evidence of Turbo failure whose bearings are lubricated by the same oil.

I agree I would be concerned about the turbo as well but it's possibly because the bearings are made from heavy duty hardened steel which isn't prone to wear like the bores. More likely that the seal would go though with contaminents in the oil. This could be an additional cause of smokey exhaust

 

[Trebor]

Yes, Millers can do it. They send a kit when you buy the test. You take a sample and return it and get the results in about a week.

Thanks WelshGas .Think I might get a test done . Has anyone on the forum had their oil tested ? What might a corroding EGR appear as do you think ? Thanks for your help.

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks WelshGas .Think I might get a test done . Has anyone on the forum had their oil tested ? What might a corroding EGR appear as do you think ? Thanks for your help.

Check out the Facebook Group. If you have a 2010/2011 180 might be worth it, otherwise I can’t see the point.

 

[2into1]

Check out the Facebook Group. If you have a 2010/2011 180 might be worth it, otherwise I can’t see the point.

I agree with the first sentence of WelshGas's post. There is no point repeating here what is discussed there.
I don't agree with the age limitation he put on his second sentence.
(for non Facebook users) : You don't need to become a Facebook addict to access the information. Just create a profile and ask to join the group.

 

[WelshGas]

I agree with the first sentence of WelshGas's post. There is no point repeating here what is discussed there.
I don't agree with the age limitation he put on his second sentence.
(for non Facebook users) : You don't need to become a Facebook addict to access the information. Just create a profile and ask to join the group.

I prefer to deal in facts and there are none. There is no Class 1 evidence that the EGR is the cause and that engines Post 2010/2011 suffer from the same problem.

The End.

 

[2into1]

This always happens when this is discussed here. That's why I point everyone to the Facebook forum where they can see what facts and evidence are available for themselves, independently.

 

[Trebor]

Check out the Facebook Group. If you have a 2010/2011 180 might be worth it, otherwise I can’t see the point.

Thanks WelshGas . Mine’s an April 2015 180 dsg 4 motion with 18k miles .

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks WelshGas . Mine’s an April 2015 180 dsg 4 motion with 18k miles .

And mines a 2014 with 65,000 miles.

 

[sprout99]

And mine is a 2011 4motion and the engine gave up at 98331 miles

 

[WelshGas]

And mine is a 2011 4motion and the engine gave up at 98331 miles

So that was a CFCA engine produced between 2010 and 2012.. VW admitted there was a manufacturing problem with those engines. A totally different problem.

VW TPI.

 

[sprout99]

So that was a CFCA engine produced between 2010 and 2012.. VW admitted there was a manufacturing problem with those engines. A totally different problem.

VW TPI.

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Ours was using oil. Totally dependant on driving style. Rural driving was ok. Sustained motorway woukd hammer oil.

The garage pulled the engine apart to fully diagnose the reason for catastrophic failure. Originally it was suspected to be the oil pump hex drive. But that was ok. They pulled the head off and noted that there was signs of oil burning only on cylinder 3.

The sump was very full of carbon sludge. This was a consequence of the oil cooler and egr failure.

They also looked at the revision A egr valve from original engine and said it wasn't as bad as they expected it to be.

 

[g0cew]

Out of interest what was/is the definitive problem/fix?

T4WFA eluded to elliptical bore wear?

Every internal combustion engine wears like this to some extent. Simply a case of the forces on a piston during combustion. The piston doesn't travel vertically but elliptically within the bore.
Unfortunately in the case of the 180 engine it seams VW failed to manage it adequately.

So is the fix a different ring set? A more robust oil control ring ? Different bore coating ? Different machining tolerances?

I know VW replace the engine but that's just the easy and most cost effective solution.

What is in the new engine?

Problem caused by chrome rings not bedding into bores 2 options cast rings no chrome running in oil sae 30 for 500 miles glaze busting the bores will be required very common on a lot of vw engines and it pays not to nurse it