2023 Ocean leaking roof fabric

[andyinluton]

Options:
1. If you are waiting collection of your Cali? Prior to payment and collecting, attend the garage and do the water test yourself!
If leaks? Reject, because legally not fit for purpose!
Why would you buy a new vehicle that as been repaired?

2. If you have already bought, follow above, then legally reject if within the time limit of 6months from purchase date!

3. If over time limit? Small claims court procedures!

We should all be directing our input to Vw, wether the garage or Vw direct!

If we all follow the above I am sure things will be dealt with as a priority!

Ps: make sure everything you are told, is put in writing.

It is a sad state of affairs that we need to do this! Vw are just taking the P—- and getting away with it:-(

I don't want to get into an argument but.....

Fit for purpose - it is, handbook says it may leak.

Repair - well if you don't want it repaired what do you want?

Small Claims - forget it, what are you claiming for? the repair that you don't want? replacement van is over the value limit for small claims. This would be a proper court case with associated costs that would probably exceed the value of a new van. I have one case awaiting a hearing at the moment thats been kicking around since 2020 so don't expect anything to happen quickly.

Vw are not taking the P - they appear to be listening & replacing bellows - what more do you realistically expect them to do?

Guns blazing - I would suggest your suggestions of going legal would be seen that way by a dealer.

I'm in court later this week actually on a fit for purpose case, I do construction, not consumer law, but someone sitting about 6 foot away from me handles prosecutions for one of the local councils trading standards department.
His view is you would be far better off turning up at your local dealer with a packet of chocolate digestives and have a nice friendly chat with the person in charge of servicing. If anything goes legal it's the legal people that are the only winners.

 

[HIGGINS]

What are you blabbing on about!
Arguments? Who is arguing?
Just facts and opinions which in my opinion is a discussion!

There seem to be a number of members on this thread that take things personal. We are mature adults not attending school!
No I wouldn’t want my new van repaired before buying it.
I will reject it and order a new one from factory if or when Vw sort the issue.

If not? I will buy an earlier one with no water ingress!

Vw are repairing! With what? The leaky bellows?

Best of luck to you all on your chocolate biscuit tactic

 

[Nick from Bath]

Sad that this is my first post here but another month old Ocean to report with leaks in the exact same panel. Probably wrung out 2 litres of water from an absorbent towel along the front lip of the bed deck on Saturday night. First time it’s had the roof up in the rain too.

 

[andyinluton]

Other than the obviously different cloth, my only observation is that the thread seems to be thicker/ more prominent on the new canvas.

Thanks for the photos
Unfortunately you cant see the outside face of the bit where it looks to be leaking - the horizontal bar about 1/3rd of the way up from the bottom of the arched window. The outside face is hidden by the mesh, need to unzip it & look from the inside of the van.

 

[Corradobrit]

Sad that this is my first post here but another month old Ocean to report with leaks in the exact same panel. Probably wrung out 2 litres of water from an absorbent towel along the front lip of the bed deck on Saturday night. First time it’s had the roof up in the rain too.

Sorry to say but your location is mildly amusing given the circumstances. But anyway, welcome to the club.

 

[Corradobrit]

I think they were both at the top - definitely weren’t at either end of the zip run as had always thought that was more suspect.
Additionally when we closed the roof after returning to the van and spotting the leaking I left the sliding hatch open as thought would allow some air to circulate in the upper bed at least. In practice about half an hour later we also then had water dripping through the zip or seam (not sure which) from the front window which was hanging down through the hatch (lowest point so water had pooled).
Having now had a better look and emptied the cupboards, stuff is wet in the left hand kitchen cupboard so water must have gone down the joint between the burner unit and the side panel - not surprising given the volume of water.
Haven’t had a chance to get hold of the dealer today as been a mad day at work, but worried that water will be properly behind cupboards and manifest itself later as either smelly soundproofing or damaged electrics, and no obvious way to be sure.
Is the dealer best port of call in the first instance in people’s opinion or is there a central VW centre to contact ?

Put a few of these in the cupboards to help absorb the moisture

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B0BSVBBBPQ/

 

[dspuk]

Hope VW fixes this soon. Both for the poor owners and to stop Higgins yelling at everyone…

 

[Andy C Berks.]

And now photos of the new canvas

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Just adding my tag from my leaking MY2023 bellows in case that helps somebody‘s detective work. Not sure what the “Pers. Nr” is but notably the same as yours. The date stamp is about a month apart but slightly confusing on mine as there obviously wasn‘t a 29th Feb this year!

 

[andyinluton]

Any consensus as to whether it's only the grey roofs that leak?

Anyone with a red or blue thats leaking?

 

[Andy C Berks.]

Put a few of these in the cupboards to help absorb the moisture

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B0BSVBBBPQ/

Good idea, thanks

 

[andyinluton]

I have set up a poll to try and collate a bit more info. I make it at least 15 people that should vote that theirs leak, interested to see how many don't (yet) leak.

 

[Corradobrit]

I have set up a poll to try and collate a bit more info. I make it at least 15 people that should vote that theirs leak, interested to see how many don't (yet) leak.

That was a query I posed a few days ago. As far as I can tell no one has said their bellows was waterproof after a significant and prolonged dousing.

 

[andyinluton]

That was a query I posed a few days ago. As far as I can tell no one has said their bellows was waterproof after a significant and prolonged dousing.

Mine havn't leaked yet. It's only been up in "standard" heavy rain a couple of times, not torrential, biblical, or hurricane winds with rain attached. I might put the roof up and leave it up next time it's convenient just to test.

 

[Trojax]

Your all going to end up with some magic tape on the bellows. Job done

It seems like Helicopter tape no end to its use

 

[Trojax]

Nothing obviously different there.

The stitching inside is a different colour on the new one

 

[Jabberwocky]

I have set up a poll to try and collate a bit more info. I make it at least 15 people that should vote that theirs leak, interested to see how many don't (yet) leak.

Hi Andy, where can I find your poll?

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Has anyone with leaky bellows got the nod from their dealer to apply a seam sealer as a temporary solution, and did it make a difference?

 

[Trojax]

Hi Andy, where can I find your poll?

Does your T6.1 double skinned Bellows leak?

Trying to ascertain the extent of the problem & if there's any common information.

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[RockinNRollin]

That was a query I posed a few days ago. As far as I can tell no one has said their bellows was waterproof after a significant and prolonged dousing.

As per my earlier post, mine did get a really solid soaking at the weekend but the wind-driven nature of the wind and the orientation of the van meant the front panel didn't really see much rain (to my knowledge anyway). However, the side panels did and they didn't let any water in, seem to recall there was a mention earlier in the thread that some did.

I've been studying the various photos; I don't think much water is getting between the canvas layers above the bottom seam (with the exception of @Jeaniethecali in post #172 who had some leaks between the plastic bar and the bottom seam); so generally this suggests water is either getting into the fabric gap and/or through the seams at the bottom seam of the window, which does suggest pooling water at the base of the window. However, @Jeaniethecali suggests water is getting in high than this, presumably through the zip seam as the outside face of the reinforcing bar on the fabric is just two lines of needle holes, no ridges or anything else that would encourage water to pool and work through, I would have thought it would have just ran off that part. I guess if it was driven against the front of the bellows hard enough it could work through though.

It does seem a difficult issue. I was looking at mine last night as I was airing it from the drenching over the weekend and I can't quite believe the bellows can genuinely be watertight by design; there are too many zips with meagre protection (particularly the pan roof zip which just has two little folds which act like stormflaps, but mine don't always overlap neatly). There does seem to be an issue with the MY23 bellows with respect to that front seam yes, but I also wonder how much our expectation should be that the pop roof it totally watertight in all conditions?

 

[Julesverne2000]

As per my earlier post, mine did get a really solid soaking at the weekend but the wind-driven nature of the wind and the orientation of the van meant the front panel didn't really see much rain (to my knowledge anyway). However, the side panels did and they didn't let any water in, seem to recall there was a mention earlier in the thread that some did.

I've been studying the various photos; I don't think much water is getting between the canvas layers above the bottom seam (with the exception of @Jeaniethecali in post #172 who had some leaks between the plastic bar and the bottom seam); so generally this suggests water is either getting into the fabric gap and/or through the seams at the bottom seam of the window, which does suggest pooling water at the base of the window. However, @Jeaniethecali suggests water is getting in high than this, presumably through the zip seam as the outside face of the reinforcing bar on the fabric is just two lines of needle holes, no ridges or anything else that would encourage water to pool and work through, I would have thought it would have just ran off that part. I guess if it was driven against the front of the bellows hard enough it could work through though.

It does seem a difficult issue. I was looking at mine last night as I was airing it from the drenching over the weekend and I can't quite believe the bellows can genuinely be watertight by design; there are too many zips with meagre protection (particularly the pan roof zip which just has two little folds which act like stormflaps, but mine don't always overlap neatly). There does seem to be an issue with the MY23 bellows with respect to that front seam yes, but I also wonder how much our expectation should be that the pop roof it totally watertight in all conditions?

Very similar to my view/experience of the new bellows, which I posted a while back now. The exception being that I did get some beading water on the passenger side in storm like conditions. Nothing to cause any real concern.

This is a world away from those who are suffering from drenched interiors and several litres of water needed to be squeezed out of towels. In those circumstances I’d absolutely be raising with VW. Of course it’s possible that I could still get a soaking.

This thread is really valuable in sharing knowledge and updates of progress in getting the issue sorted with VW.

Anyway, feel like a third option on the survey would be handy.

 

[Corradobrit]

As per my earlier post, mine did get a really solid soaking at the weekend but the wind-driven nature of the wind and the orientation of the van meant the front panel didn't really see much rain (to my knowledge anyway). However, the side panels did and they didn't let any water in, seem to recall there was a mention earlier in the thread that some did.

I've been studying the various photos; I don't think much water is getting between the canvas layers above the bottom seam (with the exception of @Jeaniethecali in post #172 who had some leaks between the plastic bar and the bottom seam); so generally this suggests water is either getting into the fabric gap and/or through the seams at the bottom seam of the window, which does suggest pooling water at the base of the window. However, @Jeaniethecali suggests water is getting in high than this, presumably through the zip seam as the outside face of the reinforcing bar on the fabric is just two lines of needle holes, no ridges or anything else that would encourage water to pool and work through, I would have thought it would have just ran off that part. I guess if it was driven against the front of the bellows hard enough it could work through though.

It does seem a difficult issue. I was looking at mine last night as I was airing it from the drenching over the weekend and I can't quite believe the bellows can genuinely be watertight by design; there are too many zips with meagre protection (particularly the pan roof zip which just has two little folds which act like stormflaps, but mine don't always overlap neatly). There does seem to be an issue with the MY23 bellows with respect to that front seam yes, but I also wonder how much our expectation should be that the pop roof it totally watertight in all conditions?

This one has me a little perplexed. The water infiltration did not appear to be coming through the lower front window seam.

2023 Ocean leaking roof fabric

They don’t have to be visible on collection? There is enough evidence on here to confirm a problem! Why would you pay and take possession of any new item! That you know to have history of being faulty??? Would you take possession of the vehicle if it had history of blowing an engine after...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[ivan & jill]

For those of you who want photos, one of the inside front seams leaking and two of the corresponding outside seams

 

[andyinluton]

It does seem a difficult issue. I was looking at mine last night as I was airing it from the drenching over the weekend and I can't quite believe the bellows can genuinely be watertight by design; there are too many zips with meagre protection (particularly the pan roof zip which just has two little folds which act like stormflaps, but mine don't always overlap neatly). There does seem to be an issue with the MY23 bellows with respect to that front seam yes, but I also wonder how much our expectation should be that the pop roof it totally watertight in all conditions?

Whilst that makes a lot of sense, it doesn't explain why the earlier T6.1 bellows with exactly the same number of openings, zips and external fabric was acceptably waterproof.
I appreciate there were a couple of people with water ingress problems but it was unusual rather than the norm.

 

[Andy C Berks.]

Interesting initial response from VWVC Liverpool in that they have just said that -
- I am not the first person to raise this with them,
- the material is advised as showerproof, not waterproof (yes really !) so use it with roof down in the rain,
- there are aftermarket waterproof covers available (shouldn’t need to use one, thanks)
- they would be happy to have a look at it (but why if you say it’s only showerproof)
Just off to make a cup of coffee and stop crying/laughing before going back in for round 2. Albeit will watch the other Andy’s survey for a bit longer before going back in to bat.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

showerproof