3 way coolbox query / Hard wiring fridge to leisure battery

[Max-Felix]

Oh that's good can spend a bit more time trying to find the reason or a solution. It's generally not a problem cuz we use hook up but would be nice to know it would run for a couple of days on 12v if needed.
Thanks for info

See posts on page one for why. These fridges are sensitive to voltage drop. Use a multimeter to check the voltage under load and/or hard wire it (very easy to do) and see if the issue persists. Cigarette lighter type connections are pretty poor ways to connect things - the 12v positive (central prong) offers very little surface area for current to flow.

 

[Stuart]

See posts on page one for why. These fridges are sensitive to voltage drop. Use a multimeter to check the voltage under load and/or hard wire it (very easy to do) and see if the issue persists. Cigarette lighter type connections are pretty poor ways to connect things - the 12v positive (central prong) offers very little surface area for current to flow.

I'm not keen on hardwiring it as it moves around the van depending on how we're using it. It is a bit rubbish that vehicles still use this archaic way of supplying power. Are you aware of any way to replace the cigarette lighter sockets with something better?

 

[Stuart]

Oh that's good can spend a bit more time trying to find the reason or a solution. It's generally not a problem cuz we use hook up but would be nice to know it would run for a couple of days on 12v if needed.
Thanks for info

I've ran for a few days on just the battery before with no problems. Just not using the socket behind the passenger seat!

 

[Max-Felix]

I'm not keen on hardwiring it as it moves around the van depending on how we're using it. It is a bit rubbish that vehicles still use this archaic way of supplying power. Are you aware of any way to replace the cigarette lighter sockets with something better?

Comes down to the same hard wiring job to the leisure battery but just use a fused decent quality quick connect 12v plug connector. Loads of different types out there on eBay that will provide a superior connection. And again as per age one use higher rating cable.

 

[Stuart]

Comes down to the same hard wiring job to the leisure battery but just use a fused decent quality quick connect 12v plug connector. Loads of different types out there on eBay that will provide a superior connection. And again as per age one use higher rating cable.

So I guess you're saying that the existing wiring to the 12v sockets isn't great? As otherwise it would seem much simpler to reuse that and just change the sockets to something better

 

[Max-Felix]

Just posting from the other topic to keep it all together:

Other topic:

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/extension-lead-for-a-waexo-cfx-fridge.18173/#post-208004

Not sure but if the mods could possibly combine this and the linked topic that would be great as the conversation is going on in two places with relevant bits in both topics ) but multiple connections and thin cable = voltage drop = fridge cut out especially with engine off running. Most of the 12v cig lighter adaptors/extensions etc are cr@p quality and you need higher amperage rated cable to avoid this even if they live up to what they are rated at...

Check here for lots more on running 12v portable fridges.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz...p..0.15.1632.3..41j0i131k1j0i67k1.NYyPiopt7Bw

Why it fails to provide the voltage expected:

http://www.fridge-and-solar.net/socket.htm

So, in the Cali Beach the cabling goes from the leisure battery under the nearside seat to the bulkhead area (and in the Ocean/SE of course one of these batteries is at the back of the vehicle), then presumably through some wizardry and components and then has to go through maybe another 15 ft of cable back to the rear most cigarette lighter socket. This cable will be just OK quality as will be the socket as VW use a lot of it and want to save money.

You then plug in an amp-hungry fridge using a funny little plug originally designed to power a heated element for a few seconds in the 1960's but that somehow the whole industry continues to use. Look at the end of the plug and the front surface of that little tip is all the area the current has to flow through.

If you get a multimeter and measure the voltage at each of the sockets you may find 12.5v but add a load and measure again so see what is now coming through. As in the link above this is OK with the engine running as the alternator will supply 14.5v and this compensates for the loss but with engine off and a load you may only see 10.5 volts.

Or add an extension to an existing socket (and another terrible interface for the current to struggle through) and wave bye bye to another volt or so...

Check the links above - most of the discussions will be from 4x4 expedition types and marine forums as these people want a proper reliable supply - in comparison the stuff in the motorcaravan world and Amazon/eBay is cheap Chinese manufacture.

Lower wattage appliances like chargers and lights will be fine but a fridge demands more.

Hard wiring with high rated cable and high quality connectors and an inline fuse is the way to go. You can still disconnect easily under the seat and have a long cable and move it all around but the voltage will be reliable and the fridge will be more efficient and work great.

 

[Stuart]

Thanks! Although bizarrely it's the socket at the back of the vehicle which works best, and the socket at the front which doesn't work! I guess the cable isn't routed as you might expect

 

[BeachyBird]

Just posting from the other topic to keep it all together:

Other topic:

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/extension-lead-for-a-waexo-cfx-fridge.18173/#post-208004

Not sure but if the mods could possibly combine this and the linked topic that would be great as the conversation is going on in two places with relevant bits in both topics ) but multiple connections and thin cable = voltage drop = fridge cut out especially with engine off running. Most of the 12v cig lighter adaptors/extensions etc are cr@p quality and you need higher amperage rated cable to avoid this even if they live up to what they are rated at...

Check here for lots more on running 12v portable fridges.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz...p..0.15.1632.3..41j0i131k1j0i67k1.NYyPiopt7Bw

Why it fails to provide the voltage expected:

http://www.fridge-and-solar.net/socket.htm

So, in the Cali Beach the cabling goes from the leisure battery under the nearside seat to the bulkhead area (and in the Ocean/SE of course one of these batteries is at the back of the vehicle), then presumably through some wizardry and components and then has to go through maybe another 15 ft of cable back to the rear most cigarette lighter socket. This cable will be just OK quality as will be the socket as VW use a lot of it and want to save money.

You then plug in an amp-hungry fridge using a funny little plug originally designed to power a heated element for a few seconds in the 1960's but that somehow the whole industry continues to use. Look at the end of the plug and the front surface of that little tip is all the area the current has to flow through.

If you get a multimeter and measure the voltage at each of the sockets you may find 12.5v but add a load and measure again so see what is now coming through. As in the link above this is OK with the engine running as the alternator will supply 14.5v and this compensates for the loss but with engine off and a load you may only see 10.5 volts.

Or add an extension to an existing socket (and another terrible interface for the current to struggle through) and wave bye bye to another volt or so...

Check the links above - most of the discussions will be from 4x4 expedition types and marine forums as these people want a proper reliable supply - in comparison the stuff in the motorcaravan world and Amazon/eBay is cheap Chinese manufacture.

Lower wattage appliances like chargers and lights will be fine but a fridge demands more.

Hard wiring with high rated cable and high quality connectors and an inline fuse is the way to go. You can still disconnect easily under the seat and have a long cable and move it all around but the voltage will be reliable and the fridge will be more efficient and work great.

Thanks for your very detailed reply and agree this is obviously part of the problem and a solution is there, but as Stuart mentioned what is strange is this fridge will work adequately in the other 12v plugs in the vehicle running off the leisure battery. I have used a meter to check all the sockets and even under load it hasn't dropped to below 12v.
In the socket behind the passenger seat the fridge will stop working almost as soon as the engine is turned off but will continue for about 2days in any other socket. THAT IS THE MYSTERY.


Thanks again
Bb

 

[Max-Felix]

Thanks for your very detailed reply and agree this is obviously part of the problem and a solution is there, but as Stuart mentioned what is strange is this fridge will work adequately in the other 12v plugs in the vehicle running off the leisure battery. I have used a meter to check all the sockets and even under load it hasn't dropped to below 12v.
In the socket behind the passenger seat the fridge will stop working almost as soon as the engine is turned off but will continue for about 2days in any other socket. THAT IS THE MYSTERY.


Thanks again
Bb

That is interesting - I have to say up front I'm no expert but just passing on what I learned and researched when I got into issues trying to use 12v extensions when building a Beach Kitchen pod last year.

However, the only reason it cuts out must still be a voltage drop I'm sure if all other sockets are fine - measuring voltage with a multimeter is a basic test and you might need to delve a bit deeper with resistance settings on the meter.

But are you actually measuring the voltage at the fridge while plugged into the affected socket? If not where are you measuring it?

So you would need to remove the access panel on the fridge and plug in the fridge with engine off then carefully use the meter into the supply points on the fridge board as of course you cannot measure the voltage in the socket with the fridge plug in there.

 

[BeachyBird]

That is interesting - I have to say up front I'm no expert but just passing on what I learned and researched when I got into issues trying to use 12v extensions when building a Beach Kitchen pod last year.

However, the only reason it cuts out must still be a voltage drop I'm sure if all other sockets are fine - measuring voltage with a multimeter is a basic test and you might need to delve a bit deeper with resistance settings on the meter.

But are you actually measuring the voltage at the fridge while plugged into the affected socket? If not where are you measuring it?

So you would need to remove the access panel on the fridge and plug in the fridge with engine off then carefully use the meter into the supply points on the fridge board as of course you cannot measure the voltage in the socket with the fridge plug in there.

 

[BeachyBird]

I think your knowledge is far superior to mine so thanks for your input and no i didn't measure that socket while the fridge was plugged in it. i thought i could measure by plugging into any another socket running off the leisure battery whilst the fridge was plugged in to see if it dropped , so think i have more homework to do. I will have a read of the links you put previously.
Thanks again

 

[BeachyBird]

Great colour Cali

 

[Max-Felix]

I think your knowledge is far superior to mine so thanks for your input and no i didn't measure that socket while the fridge was plugged in it. i thought i could measure by plugging into any another socket running off the leisure battery whilst the fridge was plugged in to see if it dropped , so think i have more homework to do. I will have a read of the links you put previously.
Thanks again

Ahhh, no you will still likely get 12v or more at the other sockets as the fridge draw is relatively small.

Nothing like a starter motor for instance - had issues with that on my Discovery lately with sluggish starting and voltage drop there was an issue too although much larger currents of course. Battery showed 12.5v, when cranking the starter this dropped to around 9v but voltage at starter terminal dropped to around 7v hence sluggishness.

I cleaned all earths through the system and put another charge in the battery. Subsequently after charge and cleaning: Battery showed 13.5v Cranking - battery = 9.8v Starter = 8.8v. So still down a bit and heavier duty earths should help claw a bit more back.

I digress but principle is the same - voltage drop due to poor cable, long run and poor connections is the culprit in your case I'm 99% sure but you'd need to get the multimeter on the fridge 12v supply board to be sure.

 

[BeachyBird]

Ahhh, no you will still likely get 12v or more at the other sockets as the fridge draw is relatively small.

Nothing like a starter motor for instance - had issues with that on my Discovery lately with sluggish starting and voltage drop there was an issue too although much larger currents of course. Battery showed 12.5v, when cranking the starter this dropped to around 9v but voltage at starter terminal dropped to around 7v hence sluggishness.

I cleaned all earths through the system and put another charge in the battery. Subsequently after charge and cleaning: Battery showed 13.5v Cranking - battery = 9.8v Starter = 8.8v. So still down a bit and heavier duty earths should help claw a bit more back.

I digress but principle is the same - voltage drop due to poor cable, long run and poor connections is the culprit in your case I'm 99% sure but you'd need to get the multimeter on the fridge 12v supply board to be sure.

Ok now i understand.
Thanks again

 

[MattBW]

Any recommendations on a decent cable and socket to use? I'm going to instal a fused one straight into the leisure battery.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MattBW]

I was thinking one of these?

http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/cigar...-12-volts-24-volts-20-amps-panel-mounted.html

Found one on ebay with fuse and wiring included for 7 quid, that may do me.

 

[Stuart]

I've been reading about Hella sockets which sound far more suitable, and are also compatible with the plug on Waeco fridges. Although admittedly plug compatibility isn't a big deal as you can always change the plug.

Edit: Apparently also called DIN ISO 4165
http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/din-iso-4165-power-socket-16-amp-max.html

 

[Max-Felix]

Hi Matt, see the in-line holder and cable (go for 25amp 2.0mm sq) I linked on page one:

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/3-way-coolbox-query.17642/#post-202779

For connections that cig type you linked will be much better quality I'm sure than the usual eBay £1.50 types but as noted I'd avoid them and hardwire direct and if you need a connector use a proprietary HD type - maybe check out ICE connectors and suchlike.

Or you could use more easily available domestic UK 240v extension connectors but this is rather frowned upon as there is the danger of misconnection by strangers to the system. This type is rather more proprietary though:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-PIN-INL...316415?hash=item4af2c106ff:g:ctMAAOSwhcJWKRBa

Or below (not tried these myself):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-3-4-Pin...b32c60f&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=6&sd=262773910616

 

[James B 2016]

Hi Max, a while back you gave me some useful info about using a CTEK charger on my leisure battery. Thanks again.

We're heading off for a long trip in europe and I've been thinking about the best way to wire my Webasto isotherm coolbox directly to the battery as you suggested.

I think the best solution I have come up with is:

1. Connect this directly to the leisure battery. http://www.halfords.com/workshop-to...zLuuVvkodY8zlyxrOKkmD_jlQGDvp5gncXRoCHGrw_wcB
I can then use this to charge the leisure battery with my ctek occasionally and monitor the level of charge.
2. Create a cable that goes direct from the fridge to the ctek comfort connection. That way I can easily connect the fridge without needing to leave the fridge cable lying under the drivers seat. I'd use the lead on the link plus a plug wired to the other end. https://www.amazon.co.uk/CTEK-40-13...&qid=1495009007&sr=1-26&keywords=ctek+comfort


To get to the leisure battery I need to unbolt the passenger seat a bit so I want to avoid doing that too much. Does that make sense?

Can you see any issues with that?

Thanks in advance. I'm a bit of a novice with this so your opinion would really help.

James

 

[Max-Felix]

James, that is a great idea. I had the same lead on my battery (you should get one with a Ctek). Only issue is you need a fuse in the supply to the fridge so this would need to go on the cable you make up from the fridge to the Ctek socket. Or is there one in that covered piece on the Halfords lead?

And check the rating of the cable from Ctek - a very short piece so should be no issue though.

I'd always carry a cheap multimeter though as the traffic light things are not very accurate.

Regarding the seat - if you move it forward and then with a bit of a struggle you can pull off the rubber battery cover and access the terminals - cut a 1" cross in the rubber and pass the cables through there.

 

[James B 2016]

Cool glad you like it. As you say I have the lead without the indicator already as part of my ctek kit. Maybe I'll just use that and get a cheap multimeter too. Good point about the inline fuse. I can build that into the fridge lead. You'd recommended that too so I'll get myself one of these. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/In-line-S...755375?hash=item3aac0ed12f:g:tIcAAOSwlPRTb-vP

The only question now is where do I get a spare fridge lead and what multimeter do I buy! Any ideas on the fridge lead? Or indeed recommendations for multimeter?

thanks a lot!

 

[Max-Felix]

Not sure on the lead but Amazon? If you see page one of this topic there is a pic of the original lead/plug undone - I just soldered direct to the ring terminals in there and used that. Easily reversible too.

Any cheap multimeter will do - I just used to undo the rubber plug on the Ctek battery lead and probe into there.

Or even one of these in any 12v socket will do:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-24V-L...172364?hash=item3f380ad00c:g:b1QAAOSwoQ1TncVg

 

[MattBW]

I saw these today and wondered if they could be quite good for direct connections to the solar panel and fridge. No real advantage other than being quite cool.

8a should be enough right?

 

[hirsty]

I don't know if I'll buy one, but that video is awesome on many levels!

 

[James B 2016]

Hi all, I've been spending a ridiculous amount of time trying to sort out wiring my Webasto TB41 directly to the leisure battery so thought I'd share my experience..

I'm an electrics novice but thought I'd have a go at wiring direct to the leisure battery but with the inclusion of an Anderson powerpole connector. From a bit of reading online it seemed that's a very good choice for a 12v connection. So I went to a local auto electricians and spent £18 on all the bits including wire, inline fuse etc..

Then I spent hours making this:



I found it quite time consuming and I'm not confident it was a professional job.. So I had a bit of a re-think.

I already have a CTEK battery charger so connected this directly to the leisure battery under the passenger seat:


And then I found this online:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002X6DQV4/?tag=eliteelect-21

I really wanted to avoid a cigarette socket connection based on what others have said but then figured if Webasto supply it with a cigarette plug then it must at least work.. And hopefully the drop in voltage is due to the mass of wiring in the California rather than the cigarette socket alone.

This is how it looks connected up:


It has an inline 5amp fuse.

I've been testing it today. The Webasto gave the usual low voltage error after an hour or so through the california's cigarette socket next to the mains socket behind the passenger seat even though I fully charged the leisure battery. I then used the CTEK connection and it seems to be working very well several hours later. I'll keep an eye on it and report back in a couple of days.

If it works then it's certainly a lot simpler than making up a direct rig to the fridge.