Bristol propose to ban diesel vehicles by March 2021

[westfalia]

Is there a kind of model town or city of where Bristol have got the idea from
or is just that one of their planners has been to Amsterdam and thought, yes,
we´ll have a bit of this.but on top we will ban diesels without having the infrastructure
in place?
They better get a move on.

 

[Whistler]

You don’t have to buy a new car, you can exchange it or downgrade to a petrol car of equal or less value.l, or work around the time restrictions.

At the moment I have an asset that performs a certain function. Using your logic I have to give up this asset and either get a less capable asset in return (Downgrade) or give up this asset and pay more to get the equivalent capable asset.

In both cases I lose out.

I understand and appreciate that there is a problem that needs addressing but it needs to be looked at in the whole.

I work for a company that provides excellent changing and bike storage and as a result I cycle the 4 and bit miles to work. Nowhere near Bristol I hasten to add. Perhaps councils should look at encouraging business within their areas to provide similar facilities. People need viable options not a lazy blanket approach.

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[Lightning]

At the moment I have an asset that performs a certain function. Using your logic I have to give up this asset and either get a less capable asset in return (Downgrade) or give up this asset and pay more to get the equivalent capable asset.

In both cases I lose out.

I understand and appreciate that there is a problem that needs addressing but it needs to be looked at in the whole.

I work for a company that provides excellent changing and bike storage and as a result I cycle the 4 and bit miles to work. Nowhere near Bristol I hasten to add. Perhaps councils should look at encouraging business within their areas to provide similar facilities. People need viable options not a lazy blanket approach.

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I used to work in Bristol at Airbus which has a superb new large shower block and changing rooms and it really did encourage people to cycle in. The traffic is pretty dangerous to cycle in though as the cycle lanes are not hard segregated like they are in parts of Europe.
Bristol have spent millions on a guided bus network recently. They have made virtually the whole city permit parking in the last couple of years, largely to discourage commuters driving in. It’s not a car friendly city. They cannot afford to build a proper underground train service, The normal First bus service is apparently terrible, and most people won’t take a bus unless there is no other choice.

 

[WelshGas]

No one was making a comparison, except to mindset.

The 1952 smog claimed an immediate 5,000 lives, most historians now agree on something over 10,000. The effect was to focus minds. Out of the blue this smog descended, choked the life out of people, and suddenly "something has to be done" rang bells.

To dismiss the 1956 act is to dismiss one of the bravest and most radical pieces of legislation seen in the Western world. It proved to the then developed world what can be done if minds were focussed. The results were dramatic.

We are facing a similar challenge but because it does not descend out of the sky as a totally obscuring yellow/black cloud we ignore it. It is not a war on diesel, or a search for alternative fuels, it is simply where emissions are being pumped into static air then Nox is pretty unpleasant so let's limit it's impact. It's not a war on diesel, on consumers, on the motor car, on lorries... just a common sense demand of let's protect our most vulnerable people in our most vulnerable areas.

No one was dismissing it, but it was a fairly simple fix for the problem, substituting a smokeless/low smoke combustible fuel for a sulphur heavy high smoke fuel. No change to infrastructure required.
The problem we now have is that change requires significant infrastructure changes and a significant financial impact on many who cannot afford the cost and who thought they were doing their bit for climate change by following the scientific and Government advice to change from Petrol to Diesel . Now, they are being made the scapegoat and being punished for doing their bit.

You don’t have to buy a new car, you can exchange it or downgrade to a petrol car of equal or less value.l, or work around the time restrictions.

I also have a petrol Cali, so I don’t see any problem with their plans.

What an arrogant comment. “ I’m All right, Jack “

 

[Lightning]

[/QUOTE]
What an arrogant comment. “ I’m All right, Jack “
[/QUOTE]
Ok Boomer

 

[Lightning]

Have yet to come across a Diesel engine that can run on Petrol. Please correct me if I am wrong.

What an ignorant comment.

 

[WelshGas]

What an ignorant comment.

Evidence?

I have yet to come across a commercially available modern diesel that can run on petrol. You obviously have, so please inform and educate this member of the “ Boomer “ generation.

 

[Lightning]

Evidence?

I have yet to come across a commercially available modern diesel that can run on petrol. You obviously have, so please inform and educate this member of the “ Boomer “ generation.

 

[Trotty]

For what it’s worth I live in central Bristol on the boundary of the no diesel zone. To be honest I stopped travelling in that area by car years ago and simply walk and a year or so ago I started travelling on a foot scooter that sits on the. A l of the van. It’s so much quicker and free to park. It goes with me everywhere as transport in the van.

The benefit of the Bristol scheme is as long as you stay out the centre your fine. As far as I can see there are no fees for the wider emissions zone for private vehicles which has been done to protect those who cannot afford to change cars. That said, for those in the zone it will be tricky. That said most of them will be fairly well off given the postcodes.

As a resident, it’s better than I expected and you have to support the reasons behind it. Let’s hope it’s as positive as when they banned smoking in pubs.


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[AlanC]

For what it’s worth I live in central Bristol on the boundary of the no diesel zone. To be honest I stopped travelling in that area by car years ago and simply walk and a year or so ago I started travelling on a foot scooter that sits on the. A l of the van. It’s so much quicker and free to park. It goes with me everywhere as transport in the van.

The benefit of the Bristol scheme is as long as you stay out the centre your fine. As far as I can see there are no fees for the wider emissions zone for private vehicles which has been done to protect those who cannot afford to change cars. That said, for those in the zone it will be tricky. That said most of them will be fairly well off given the postcodes.

As a resident, it’s better than I expected and you have to support the reasons behind it. Let’s hope it’s as positive as when they banned smoking in pubs.


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The centre zone is bigger than originally planned and now includes much of the city centre and the M32 from junction 2. All though many residents may be able to afford the additional cost as suggested, equally many will not.

I doubt the scrapage scheme will offer a decent price for the Cali assuming you could get an electric one.

As I recall, those living in London’s charging zone got a discount. Nothing has been said about that in Bristol.

I don’t know if the discount applies to the London LEZ. Can any one advise?

Alan

 

[Amarillo]

I don’t know if the discount applies to the London LEZ. Can any one advise?

From October 2021 the Ultra Low Emissions Zone is expanding. I live just outside the expanded zone, my brother lives just inside.

My brother will have to either get rid of his car or face daily charging, or find a place outside the zone to garage it.

I’ll be able to drive in and out of the zone with impunity as my T6 is Euro 6 compliant.

 

[Joker 1299]

I used to work in Bristol at Airbus which has a superb new large shower block and changing rooms and it really did encourage people to cycle in. The traffic is pretty dangerous to cycle in though as the cycle lanes are not hard segregated like they are in parts of Europe.
Bristol have spent millions on a guided bus network recently. They have made virtually the whole city permit parking in the last couple of years, largely to discourage commuters driving in. It’s not a car friendly city. They cannot afford to build a proper underground train service, The normal First bus service is apparently terrible, and most people won’t take a bus unless there is no other choice.

Cycle to work... in an aircraft factory.
Oh! The irony.

 

[Lightning]

Cycle to work... in an aircraft factory.
Oh! The irony.

This is a fair point, although a lot of the engineers time there is spent trying to reduce the environmental impact. It was also quicker than driving because of the horrendous traffic.

 

[Joker 1299]

Like others here, I have begun parking outside cities.
It means I can be more careful as to where I park, to ensure as much as I can that it won't be damaged.
It also means that I can find my way to more touristy parts of cities that I might otherwise miss in my endeavours just to find suitable parking.

The first and only time I used a park and ride, the two of us parked our two ton, two litre diesel Cali at Elland Road in Leeds, jumped on a twelve ton, five litre diesel bus which transported (just) the two of us into the city.

 

[Amarillo]

The first and only time I used a park and ride, the two of us parked our two ton, two litre diesel Cali at Elland Road in Leeds, jumped on a twelve ton, five litre diesel bus which transported (just) the two of us into the city.

You should have taken bikes.

Do you have to pay for park and ride if you ride in on your own bicycle? I know that parking at Cambridge park and ride is free for up to 18 hours, and is only 2 1/2 miles (15 minutes at a slow riding pace) from the Senate House in the centre of Cambridge. What I don't know is if parking at park and rides generally is free.

 

[GSX1300R]

True, but just because it cannot be replaced doesn't justify or mean we should keep using fuel that is bad for the environment and harm the health of others. Lack of option should not justify or be an excuse to carry on using a toxic substance!

From what you are saying I take it you drive one of the new VW Electric Californias??

 

[Joker 1299]

You should have taken bikes.

Do you have to pay for park and ride if you ride in on your own bicycle? I know that parking at Cambridge park and ride is free for up to 18 hours, and is only 2 1/2 miles (15 minutes at a slow riding pace) from the Senate House in the centre of Cambridge. What I don't know is if parking at park and rides generally is free.

Yeah, your right. We could have parked these two for free in Leeds city centre.

 

[aileron346]

Interesting read. I think what characterises it is a defensive reaction from some; they see any move which limits their freedom as a personal attack on them. They then search high and low for scientific evidence (if you’re lucky, it’s usually the Express or the Mail!) to try and back up their defensive view. Remember the initial hostile reactions to wind turbines, or electric cars

Im guessing we’ve all got diesel Calis? I see no contradiction with that and supporting emission control zones, supporting low carbon initiatives and making our next choice of vehicle as low carbon as possible. The view of diesels has changed rapidly ... even since many of us bought...

Re Bristol, they will make reasonable exceptions for residents, deliveries, public transport... but generally these zones are s good thing and nothing to get hysterical about.

City centres need to tame traffic soon as possible, Camper Vans will still have plenty of uses!

 

[Elizabeth Silman]

This was the biggest issue I had before buying my New Cali in August of this year. I am worried that a once solid investment has now come to an end. We are in our late 60's and did not have the option to sit and wait for the Electric Cali coming out ( IF EVER) so we bit the bullet and bought one. It's ironic that VW caused the bad diesel hysteria in the first place. My wife keeps telling me not to worry it will be years before they stop us driving anywhere, but disappointing it has come to this. Love to hear your views !!

I went through much the same thought processes. Decided as I was on limited time (also late sixties) I'd just go with the new diesel Cali. I don't drive in cities anyway .

 

[Velma's Dad]

In retrospect I suspect the government's triggering of the "dash for diesel" in 2001, by holding down VED and giving company tax breaks on diesel cars against public health advice, will turn out to have been one of the most harmful and avoidable single public policy decisions in decades, almost certainly being responsible for thousands of premature deaths.

I believe the health science was well understood at the time, but recent FoI disclosures show that the Treasury wanted to avoid any suggestion that they were 'penalising' diesel drivers so declined to adjust the tax rates to avoid incentivising switching to diesel.

So we can certainly blame the Labour government of the day. Although I wonder if a Conservative government would have acted any differently: the reason for allowing a 'beneficial' tax rate on diesel was to placate the motoring lobby and governments of both stripes have long done that.

My suspicion is that the use of the anodyne term "local air quality issues" instead of "exposing urban dwellers to potentially lethal toxins" must have suppressed public concern, at least until the media picked up on the fact that the EC was threatening to fine the UK for persistent breaches of air pollution limits in many of our cities.

 

[Wild Bob]

I went through much the same thought processes. Decided as I was on limited time (also late sixties) I'd just go with the new diesel Cali. I don't drive in cities anyway .

No we don't either but disappointed having aspired to owning a Cali for many years I get one as the floor falls out of them

 

[mbenne]

Problem sorted but this wasn't an option when I bought mine. But no doubt this would polute our cities eventually.

 

[Bellcrew]

Interesting read. I think what characterises it is a defensive reaction from some; they see any move which limits their freedom as a personal attack on them. They then search high and low for scientific evidence (if you’re lucky, it’s usually the Express or the Mail!) to try and back up their defensive view. Remember the initial hostile reactions to wind turbines, or electric cars

Im guessing we’ve all got diesel Calis? I see no contradiction with that and supporting emission control zones, supporting low carbon initiatives and making our next choice of vehicle as low carbon as possible. The view of diesels has changed rapidly ... even since many of us bought...

Re Bristol, they will make reasonable exceptions for residents, deliveries, public transport... but generally these zones are s good thing and nothing to get hysterical about.

City centres need to tame traffic soon as possible, Camper Vans will still have plenty of uses!

Official emission limits detailed below, apparently OK to drive a pre 93 petrol but not a 2015 diesel, facts are so awkward.
1993
Euro 1 emissions limits (petrol)CO: 2.72g/kmHC + NOx: 0.97g/km
Euro 1 emissions limits (diesel)CO: 2.72g/kmHC + NOx: 0.97g/km PM: 0.14g/km
2015
Euro 6 emissions limits (petrol) CO: 1.00g/kmHC: 0.10g/kmNOx: 0.06g/kmPM: 0.005g/kmPM: 6.0x10 ^11/km
Euro 6 emissions limits (diesel) CO: 0.50g/kmHC + NOx: 0.17g/kmNOx: 0.08g/kmPM: 0.005g/kmPM: 6.0x10 ^11/km

 

[GrannyJen]

No we don't either but disappointed having aspired to owning a Cali for many years I get one as the floor falls out of them

I don't think the floor has fallen out, not even the roof.

I bought my diesel Cali 2 years ago and the residues mean that I am quids in. So quids in that in two years time I will probably trade in for another diesel cali. Political rhetoric is one thing, market reality is another.

 

[Scarylion1]

Taken from a story in the Telegraph
News

Bristol will ban all diesel vehicles from city under new proposal

Bristol could become the UK's first city to introduce a ban on diesel vehicles to boost air quality.

The vehicles will be prohibited from entering a central area of the city between 7am and 3pm every day under proposals by Bristol City Council.

A wider charging zone for commercial vehicles such as buses, taxis, vans and lorries which do not meet certain emissions standards is part of the measures which could be implemented by March 2021.

There is also a plan to launch a car scrappage scheme to help diesel car owners buy an alternative vehicle.

Concerns over emissions of nitrogen dioxide (NO2) have grown since Volkswagen was found in September 2015 to have cheated air pollution tests for 11 million diesel vehicles worldwide, including 1.2 million in the UK.

Bristol City Council said in 2017 it was one of 24 local authorities ordered by the Government to submit a plan for how it will comply with legal limits on NO2 by March 2021.

The Government has urged councils to exhaust other options before opting to impose charging zones.

Mayor of Bristol Marvin Rees said: "These ambitious plans demonstrate our commitment to tackling air pollution so we meet legal limits within the shortest time, without disproportionally affecting citizens on lower incomes which would happen with a blanket approach to charging vehicles.

"Protecting the most vulnerable people from pollution is central to these plans and we have ensured that all impacts have been carefully considered.

"If approved, mitigation measures will support those most affected, especially those living in the most deprived communities."

The council's cabinet is being asked to approve the Clean Air Zone proposal at a meeting on November 5.

If the plan is passed, the council would then work on developing the scheme with the Joint Air Quality Unit established by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Department for Transport.

RAC head of roads policy Nicholas Lyes said: "We recognise that efforts must be made to clean up the city's air but as things stand, the impact of the proposals published today on people who currently drive diesel vehicles would be unprecedented.

"Major routes into, out of, and even around the city - like Temple Way and Brunel Way - would become out of bounds, with diesel vehicles forced on to other roads, which risks causing congestion problems where they don't exist at the moment."

Lawyer Katie Nield, of green legal group ClientEarth, said: "Bristol City Council is finally responding to residents' pollution worries and looking to strengthen its proposals, but while these new plans represent a step in the right direction, they once again stop short of ridding the city of its illegally toxic air with the necessary urgency."

Data published by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders shows that during the first nine months of the year diesels held just 25.8% of the new car market, compared with 31.7% during the same period in 2018.

This is due to increases in the proportion of motorists buying petrol and alternatively-fuelled vehicles such as hybrids and battery electrics.

Wha5 a load of tosh. My van is five years old and it’s illegal. Someone has to class action this political rubbish.
paul