Diesel ban 2030

[Simon1]

With the amount of lampposts needed im looking forward to the roads being extremely well lit in future.

Dogs will be well happy

 

[Amarillo]

Funny, I thought London had heavily subsidised travel hence TFL having to be bailed out by the taxpayer

TfL’s operating grant from central government ended at the end of the 2017/2018 fiscal year.

How we are funded

We are funded from four main sources. We have also received funding from Government for post-pandemic recovery

tfl.gov.uk

It has received bailout funding this year as fare revenue which had made up 47% of its income dropped substantially during the pandemic.

Along with other transport authorities, TfL has received further grants this year to increase pedestrian space and cycle capacity on its streets.

Not a single penny of vehicle excise duty raised from Londoners is now spent on London’s roads.

 

[T6 CFO]

Having moved out of a big city and then revisited it and taken a trip to London I am more sure than I’ve ever been that positive action has to be taken to reduce the pollution of our air.

The only other thing I’m sure about is that change is accelerating and so is the will to change.

I’d rather see a target date given as without targets nothing gets done.

Change is coming and so is the UN Climate Change Conference in Glasgow so the timing is fairly predictable.


Mike

 

[edzt]

GDP per head (2018)
North east £23,569
London £54,686

Cost to British Tay payer to bail out banks(mostly London based) after financial crisis 123.9 billion. Interest payment 6 billion a year

 

[Amarillo]

Cost to British Tay payer to bail out banks(mostly London based) after financial crisis 123.9 billion. Interest payment 6 billion a year

Oh Lordy! Digging back over a decade for a net fiscal loss to the exchequer from London!?

London currently produces a fiscal surplus to the exchequer of £38.8bn (2018/19), so even with interest, that assumed debt was repaid within a few short years.

In contrast, the north east currently produces a fiscal deficit of £10.8bn (2018/19), a debt that is unlikely to ever be repaid (even with interest forgiven).

 

[hmy7k]

I would say the only way all electric is going to work is if...

1) The range is minimum 300 miles
And

2) Fast charge empty to half full is something like 10 minutes max

They have i years to improve the technology.

This is available now. Tesla's have a real world range of 250-300 miles and charging is at 250kWh so you charge at approx 1000 miles per hour. So a decent charge is approx 15 minutes just enough to stretch your legs and get a coffee before carrying on.

 

[SimonK]

This is available now. Tesla's have a real world range of 250-300 miles and charging is at 250kWh so you charge at approx 1000 miles per hour. So a decent charge is approx 15 minutes just enough to stretch your legs and get a coffee before carrying on.

Not everyone can afford a Tesla though. EVs are currently far too expensive.

 

[Thepuma]

Not everyone can afford a Tesla though. EVs are currently far too expensive.

It is 9 years away....but for me they are going to need to make new electric cars starting from £12k but also with ranges of 400+, along with fast charge times of 10 minutes so current fuel stations can become electric "while you wait" charging stations.

 

[Velma's Dad]

This is available now. Tesla's have a real world range of 250-300 miles and charging is at 250kWh so you charge at approx 1000 miles per hour. So a decent charge is approx 15 minutes just enough to stretch your legs and get a coffee before carrying on.

My neighbour who has a Tesla Model 3 says ranges Tesla state are simply a lie. He doesn't get anything like that. But even so, he says he wouldn't go back to a petrol or diesel now.

 

[Amarillo]

It is 9 years away....but for me they are going to need to make new electric cars starting from £12k but also with ranges of 400+, along with fast charge times of 10 minutes so current fuel stations can become electric "while you wait" charging stations.

I’d very happily spend £12,000 for 50 mile range and overnight charging from a domestic socket for our second car.

But for the family car I’d like to be able to drive to northern Spain within 24 hours.

 

[Velma's Dad]

But for the family car I’d like to be able to drive to northern Spain within 24 hours.

No problem, that's maybe 800 miles from London so three recharge stops for an EV with 200 mile range. Drive time say 12 hours plus 3 x 45 min stops to charge up, pee, eat and stretch legs.

But I assume you meant 24 hours one way, not return??

 

[danvan]

It is 9 years away....but for me they are going to need to make new electric cars starting from £12k but also with ranges of 400+, along with fast charge times of 10 minutes so current fuel stations can become electric "while you wait" charging stations.

Can you even buy a petrol or diesel car for £12k now? Maybe a Dacia. A Nissan Leaf is about £20k, which I'm guessing is similar to the cost of a similar sized Focus or Astra? (Although it has been a while since I bought something without a kitchen, so I may be out of touch with pricing)

 

[B J G]

I have the solution. Get an angle grinder and cut two holes in the floor and pedal it like the Flintstones! Who is going be the first to try it and show us with photos... Patent it and sell the idea to VW. They would bring it in as a £1000 option.

Next will be protests about wearing carbon free footwear.

 

[Borris]

All this talk of EVs is all very well but how many of you would actually lay down your own money and buy one at the present time? The emphasis being on the word BUY. For me at least, buying one would amount to an experiment at the present time. Living out in the country would make ownership a little more difficult although not impossible. Country folk don't have and are never likely to have the same level of facilities that those with Metro centric thinking assume are/will be available to all. However, given the cost of these vehicles it isn't an experiment that I would remotely consider for the foreseeable future. Hybrid possibly, EV definitely not.

On a separate note, our next door neighbours have friends that have had a couple of electric cars. A couple of years ago the first was towed onto their drive by the AA after running out of juice three miles from their house. It appears they now have a Tesla as it was plugged into their domestic supply during their recent visit. Frankly, I wouldn't want to go anywhere and then expect to bum electricity off someone. They may have offered to pay but I'm sure the answer would have been - don't worry about it. It's a bit like arriving at a friends house and saying " my diesel tank is running low, do you mind if I help myself to some of your heating oil?

I wonder if Landrover will ever do an Electric Freeloader?

 

[willwander]

How about a lovely Porsche Taycan?

(watch till the end)

https://imgur.com/UGTL0Rd

 

[Velma's Dad]

Is that what they call Launch Control?

 

[hmy7k]

My neighbour who has a Tesla Model 3 says ranges Tesla state are simply a lie. He doesn't get anything like that. But even so, he says he wouldn't go back to a petrol or diesel now.

The quoted range is WLTP range that uses a standard procedure it's not that realistic in most circumstances but no more inaccurate than the quoted mpg on a car. Its the nature of the test and differing use and conditions.

You don't hear of many EV users going back, I certainly won't buy another petrol or diesel car but for a van the options are limited.

 

[hmy7k]

Living out in the country would make ownership a little more difficult although not impossible.

Not sure why living in the country makes it more difficult, its actually probably easier, charge at home no need to find a petrol station and fully charged every time you need it.
It's actually more difficult for city dwellers who don't have their own driveway.

I am also not sure you why buying one is such a bad idea, Tesla's have been about for 7 years now and they have retained their value better than an equivalent ICE.

They are more expensive to buy even with government grants but the lifetime cost is likely to be significantly lower;

VED is zero on an EV but a £40k alternative would like cost £450 a year for the first 5 years.
Fuel costs depend on how and where you charge but can be as low as 1p a mile compared to 12p or so for an ICE.
There is no need for an annual service.
For company car drivers there is currently zero BIK.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

has anyone had a look into how much energy all the data centres are using to run the internet ? it's a huge problem measured in tera watt hours. just for the uk. zoom calls and sending pics of your private parts to a girl are a huge environmental problem ( i need to change my habits for the good of the planet)

You are right the Internet is responsible for huge carbon emissions! Data Centres generate a huge amount of heat which has to be cooled, often using refrigerated water running in under floor pipework. Hot air out of the top of the racks, and cold air in at the bottom. They also have large UPS rooms to keep things running in the event of a power outage, and a number of diesel generators to take over from the UPS if the outage is prolonged. Everything in a DC is also designed to be resilient. Even a relatively small DC will have: 2 data halls, 2 diversely routed incoming electrical supplies (normally from different suppliers), 2 diversely routed data connections (normally from different suppliers), 2 UPS rooms, 2 cooling systems including industrial sized refrigeration, several diesel generators, 2 fire suppressant systems, multiple layers of physical and electronic security (dependent on the DCs Tier Level). On top of all that most providers will have several DCs which are geographically separated to ensure additional resilience i.e. if a plane lands on one.
The Internet can’t be far behind the aviation industry for carbon emissions?

 

[Velma's Dad]

You are right the Internet is responsible for huge carbon emissions! Data Centres generate a huge amount of heat which has to be cooled, often using refrigerated water running in under floor pipework. Hot air out of the top of the racks, and cold air in at the bottom. They also have large UPS rooms to keep things running in the event of a power outage, and a number of diesel generators to take over from the UPS if the outage is prolonged. Everything in a DC is also designed to be resilient. Even a relatively small DC will have: 2 data halls, 2 diversely routed incoming electrical supplies (normally from different suppliers), 2 diversely routed data connections (normally from different suppliers), 2 UPS rooms, 2 cooling systems including industrial sized refrigeration, several diesel generators, 2 fire suppressant systems, multiple layers of physical and electronic security (dependent on the DCs Tier Level). On top of all that most providers will have several DCs which are geographically separated to ensure additional resilience i.e. if a plane lands on one.
The Internet can’t be far behind the aviation industry for carbon emissions?

I read that it's about as much as aviation and presumably will get bigger still. There's been some impetus for putting DCs in places like Norway so they can be powered by renewables and also lower average temperatures mean less cooling requirements. Massive difference in emissions per keystroke (or FB's sexting) between there and Bangalore or Tianjin.

Will feel guilty now when streaming The Crown this evening.

 

[Wildcamper]

Don't forget the human and environmental cost of mining Neodymium (required for high efficiency electric motors) and Cobalt (for efficient batteries). The mining process for Neodymium is far more environmentally damaging than iron ore mining and Cobalt comes from Angola/Congo area using "interesting" human labour "incentives", one reason why Elton Musk wants to eliminate cobalt from his batteries - good luck with that one! A100% conversion of the UK car market to EVs will require a 10 fold increase in the demand for Neodymium - just the UK! EVs may be good for the UK and save lives here, but lives will and are being lost in the mining of the required materials. Is a life in Angola/Congo or China (Neodymium) worth less than a life in the UK? It is what the slavers used to say in justification, are we going backwards?

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Don't forget the human and environmental cost of mining Neodymium (required for high efficiency electric motors) and Cobalt (for efficient batteries). The mining process for Neodymium is far more environmentally damaging than iron ore mining and Cobalt comes from Angola/Congo area using "interesting" human labour "incentives", one reason why Elton Musk wants to eliminate cobalt from his batteries - good luck with that one! A100% conversion of the UK car market to EVs will require a 10 fold increase in the demand for Neodymium - just the UK! EVs may be good for the UK and save lives here, but lives will and are being lost in the mining of the required materials. Is a life in Angola/Congo or China (Neodymium) worth less than a life in the UK? It is what the slavers used to say in justification, are we going backwards?

Elton Musk
Quite appropriate since he is a Rocket Man

 

[Wildcamper]

The dystopian lake filled by the world’s tech lust

Hidden in an unknown corner of China is a toxic, nightmarish lake created by our thirst for smartphones, gadgets and green tech, discovers Tim Maughan.

www.bbc.com

This is what neodymium does for the planet!

 

[Thepuma]

You don't hear of many EV users going back,

That because the EV situation works for them...ie....they have a house where they can charge it in their garage or at worse,driveway.....they do short journeys.....and they have the cash to buy an expensive vehicle.

Unless things progress significantly...and by that I mean EVs having a range of 400+ miles and/or have fast charge times of circa 10/15 minutes, plus their being a massive network of charging stations.....EVs are going to be a nightmare for most.

 

[flying banana]

That because the EV situation works for them...ie....they have a house where they can charge it in their garage or at worse,driveway.....they do short journeys.....and they have the cash to buy an expensive vehicle.

Unless things progress significantly...and by that I mean EVs having a range of 400+ miles and/or have fast charge times of circa 10/15 minutes, plus their being a massive network of charging stations.....EVs are going to be a nightmare for most.

i wonder what % of EV owners also have another vehicle with an engine ? i bet it's over 90 % . i don't know many EV owners up here but the ones i do know ALL have another vehicle in case they need to go further than the shops