Diesel ban 2030

[subthree]

The dystopian lake filled by the world’s tech lust

Hidden in an unknown corner of China is a toxic, nightmarish lake created by our thirst for smartphones, gadgets and green tech, discovers Tim Maughan.

www.bbc.com

This is what neodymium does for the planet!

Genuinely, thank you for sharing that - a real eye opener. I now need a beer.

 

[Wildcamper]

Genuinely, thank you for sharing that - a real eye opener. I now need a beer.

And just for the UK alone we will need 10 more of these toxic lakes!

 

[Velma's Dad]

i wonder what % of EV owners also have another vehicle with an engine ? i bet it's over 90 % . i don't know many EV owners up here but the ones i do know ALL have another vehicle in case they need to go further than the shops

Very probably true. But in the1900s how many car owners didn't also have a horse or two to fall back on? How many mobile phone owners in the late 80s didn't also have a landline at home?

Technology shifts almost always start with the most affluent and then hit the mass market as the economics change.

I'm not trying to make a case, just saying the train has left the station on this one. Even before the govt's announcement this week the motor industry was upping its forecasts of EV market share through the next few years.

 

[Borris]

Not sure why living in the country makes it more difficult, its actually probably easier, charge at home no need to find a petrol station and fully charged every time you need it.
It's actually more difficult for city dwellers who don't have their own driveway.

I am also not sure you why buying one is such a bad idea, Tesla's have been about for 7 years now and they have retained their value better than an equivalent ICE.

They are more expensive to buy even with government grants but the lifetime cost is likely to be significantly lower;

VED is zero on an EV but a £40k alternative would like cost £450 a year for the first 5 years.
Fuel costs depend on how and where you charge but can be as low as 1p a mile compared to 12p or so for an ICE.
There is no need for an annual service.
For company car drivers there is currently zero BIK.

Sadly, not everyone living in the country has off road parking or the ability to home charge. However, that's beside the point as my comment was a reference to the levels of charging provision. If you can have your own charging point at home then everything should be Hunky-Dory. However, if like my brother in law, you live in a terraced house directly on the road, you will have to go elsewhere to charge your EV. He owns a Nissan Leaf. Unlike in the cities EV charging points aren't quite so numerous or closely spaced.

Teslas may well have been around for seven short years but I suspect that will make no difference to the average buyer. They are still way too expensive and don't expect the Government grants to last forever either. Also I doubt if whole life costs are of any interest to most buyers as they are most unlikely own it for that long. Instead, I suggest most buyers are likely to be more interested in the cost of purchase and running. There are of course cheaper alternatives but these are also very pricy for what they are. My point is that for me, it is still very early days for both the modern EV and the necessary infrastructure needed to make them viable for everyone.

EVs may well be zero rated for VED but don't expect that to last forever. Also, I read recently that at present most EVs are either sole or second cars with the main car still being an ICE. If this is true, I can't see most people wanting to blow upwards of £40k on a second vehicle. Given the current cost of the cheaper EVs, there are still ICE vehicles for sale that are much cheaper to buy and attract very low or zero rated VED.

EV fuel costs are undoubtedly an advantage but only at the moment. If there is a massive take up of EV vehicles in the next decade then expect the costs of recharging to rise sharply. In the mean time the extra cost of buying a EV over an equivalent ICE, will probably keep the latter running for a considerable time.

When you say that there is no need for an annual service, that may apply to the EV element but the rest of the vehicle is just the same as any other ICE vehicle. It will need servicing at some point. Tyres, brakes, steering, lighting and no doubt the electrical safety and integrity of the EV elements will need to be checked from time to time. I would suggest that given that most of the things checked during a service are nothing to do with the power unit, then service intervals won't differ much from an average ICE vehicle. As it is most vehicle manufacturers offer long life servicing on ICE vehicles which can mean only one service every other year. No, mark my words, an EV will require servicing and the dealerships will be ready and waiting to take your money. If regular servicing wasn't necessary then soon they will all be out of a job and that ain't gonna happen.

Finally, my post was specifically directed at the private buyer not business users.

 

[flying banana]

they need to get some 24 hr public transport running . people need the choice. transport in the north is a joke.
i get FREE rail travel. i start work + 0700 tomorrow morning in Sheffield, guess how i have to get there ? the transport system is so bad, it's not even worth using when it's free.

 

[westfalia]

How about a lovely Porsche Taycan?

(watch till the end)

https://imgur.com/UGTL0Rd

That guy or girl must be gutted, i'd love to know what went
wrong.

 

[westfalia]

i wonder what % of EV owners also have another vehicle with an engine ? i bet it's over 90 % . i don't know many EV owners up here but the ones i do know ALL have another vehicle in case they need to go further than the shops

A mate of mine kept his diesel for 10months along side his Tesla, just
to see if it would work for him, it did and he's happy.

 

[flying banana]

A mate of mine kept his diesel for 10months along side his Tesla, just
to see if it would work for him, it did and he's happy.

has he sold the tesla now then ?

 

[westfalia]

has he sold the tesla now then ?

Ha Ha,
No he keeps telling me its the future, it works for
him but not for me right now.

 

[AndyWT]

A few points:
1. Politicians have a short life span, much shorter than your Cali
2. No politicians dare to address the elephant in the room (cow/pig etc), animal farming is one of the worst polluters in the world, far worse than transport with huge resources dedicated to feed those said elephants.

I have no axe to grind here I’m an enforced vegi due to health problems, it’s very disappointing smelling bacon or sausages in the morning or steak on the barbi.

Let’s see what actually happens, maybe my old Tdi Cali will be in demand as the last generation that will easily run on veg oil.

 

[PhillyWilly]

I got my Cali in March 18. I had exactly the same anxiety then about buying but did it anyway.

In March this year I changed my daily to a Tesla model 3 (320 mile range). It’s great but I still can’t go to the south of France in it without having range anxiety and careful planning.

Then look at the long term. What happens to the battery life of your Phone every 3 years? It degrades massively. Will this be true of the Tesla? After 3 years will the range be 70%, after 6 will it be 50% or worse? After 10, will they need replacing to make the car useable at huge cost or will it be scrapped, the cost of which would be huge due to the safety aspect if battery cells exploding. Will safe hydrogen motoring be here by that time?

I love the Tesla but I’ve still had to rely on the Cali twice for work since I bought it! I think the Cali is a safe bet. What else would we buy that would give you a better deal on depreciation and as much enjoyment? Not much.

 

[PhillyWilly]

I’ve done a bit for the environment by selling a SL55 AMG 5.5 litre gas guzzler and moving to a Cali Ocean
And I offset my Cali emissions by planting lots of green stuff on my 3 allotments

Wouldn’t the consumption of the ‘green stuff’ increase your methane output though?

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Don’t worry all, when there’s no diesel left in the pumps, we will have an alternative. What’s more the exhaust output can be put to good use on the allotments.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Or go with these guys
www.edubconversions.co.uk

 

[Wildcamper]

See the article in Daily Mail Sat Nov 21 re some issues on cobalt mining. There are plenty more supporting articles, do your own research. What is lacking is evidence that cobalt and neodymium mining is good for the planet.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

See the article in Daily Mail Sat Nov 21 re some issues on cobalt mining. There are plenty more supporting articles, do your own research. What is lacking is evidence that cobalt and neodymium mining is good for the planet.

Back to the question of the ‘environmental debt’ owed by the manufacture of EV’s

 

[flying banana]

Back to the question of the ‘environmental debt’ owed by the manufacture of EV’s

View attachment 69999

they aren't listening to the real science regarding lock downs not working, i doubt they will listen to the real science here either

 

[clarinetbcn]

Back to the question of the ‘environmental debt’ owed by the manufacture of EV’s

View attachment 69999

Only days later this study is now being referred to as "Astongate" due to the false information presented and the hidden relationship between the PR firm which promoted it and Aston Martin.

Aston Martin in row over 'sock puppet PR firm' pushing anti-electric vehicle study

Report disputing green benefits of EVs attributed to company registered to wife of carmaker’s director

www.theguardian.com

 

[Velma's Dad]

Yes that whole story didn't pass the sniff test for me when it first came out. Here's the story of how the piece was put together:

Astongate: fake emission figures, an embattled carmaker and a sock puppet PR company

You may have seen the news story last week about a new report purporting to show that it takes 50,000 miles before an EV's emissions beat those of a petrol car. First of all, the figures were comprehensively debunked - the correct figure is nearer 16,000 miles - then, over the weekend I uncovered ev

www.linkedin.com

[EDIT] Edited my post to clarify the source of the linked article, which hadn't appeared in The Times as I first thought.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Might be a little out of date but just read that if population growth continues on the current trajectory it will increase from 7.7 billion to 11.2 billion humans on the planet by 2100.
However if a 1 child policy was adopted across the globe right now, the world population would fall back through natural attrition to 1.6 billion by 2100.
Great for the planet but of course it won’t happen.
It does bring into perspective the almost impossible task of reducing emissions whilst population growth continues unabated.

 

[GrannyJen]

Might be a little out of date but just read that if population growth continues on the current trajectory it will increase from 7.7 billion to 11.2 billion humans on the planet by 2100.
However if a 1 child policy was adopted across the globe right now, the world population would fall back through natural attrition to 1.6 billion by 2100.
Great for the planet but of course it won’t happen.
It does bring into perspective the almost impossible task of reducing emissions whilst population growth continues unabated.

I appreciate your concern but can assure you that I for one have no further intentions of adding to population growth

 

[Hotel California]

It’s indeed not diesel , emissions , watercapacity , lack of food , lack of mediciens , ect....thats causing most of our current problems .
But the fact that at the rate population is going up this planet can not provide enough water , food , ect...and can not get to clean all those emissions we produce not only by driving cars and warming our house but also by making diffrent other products to consume.
The planet can not suddenly upscale to our needs and (it seems) we can not get lower the global population .

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

I appreciate your concern but can assure you that I for one have no further intentions of adding to population growth

Haha
Me neither but my pool of grandchildren is growing.

 

[Phil P]

Anyone concerned about this new law banning new petrol/diesel vehicles from 2030 that is likely to come in, affecting the medium to long term value of their vans? Will the price of diesel rocket or will the trade in secondhand vehicles keep prices and demand buoyant until they’ve served their full life span. Not that there is any choice now unlike with with cars, but it’s just something that has been in my mind since ordering.

My guess is that over the next decade massive improvements in electric battery power for heavier vehicles will be achieved. When this happens we can expect financial penalties against ICE vehicles and in particular diesel vehicles. So what to do?
Me I will Enjoy the time before that happens and love the freedom, however minor these may seem and the costs to me will be worthwhile.

 

[Borris]

My guess is that over the next decade massive improvements in electric battery power for heavier vehicles will be achieved. When this happens we can expect financial penalties against ICE vehicles and in particular diesel vehicles. So what to do?
Me I will Enjoy the time before that happens and love the freedom, however minor these may seem and the costs to me will be worthwhile.

The financial penalties won't just be confined to ICE vehicles. The need to raise tax revenue in the coming years will mean that EVs will be targeted as well. They are enjoying a brief tax free honeymoon period at present but as soon as their take up rises significantly they will become too big an income opportunity for any administration to ignore. The costs of recharging will escalate and some excuse will be found to milk them in the same way as the ICE cash cows have always been. This is as certain as night follows day.