Bristol propose to ban diesel vehicles by March 2021

[Joker 1299]

I used to ride a bike until I ended up in the ICU. That avenue of fun ended badly....

Sorry to hear that. What bike?

 

[Lightning]

Sorry to hear that. What bike?

BMW 1200 GS

 

[westfalia]

Why don't councils allow us to turn left at red lights. Sitting there like dummies whilst traffic passes in front of us. Why don't they get rid of speed humps. Why not turn off some lights. Especially on motorways. Why can't they make itlaw to have solar power on every new build from now on in. Plant more roadside hedges like they do in Europe along main roads to soak up noise and pollution. Why can't they have a 24hr public transport system and cheaper out of town parking. All this would reduce pollution. But its easier just to tax people rather than actually do anything. tossers

Because your in the UK
I´ll just keep driving Stuttgarts finest until they offer something
new and if i cannot visit anywhere in the Cali then i won't go there.

 

[Dave Wickham]

This thread is turning out to be very interesting. Here's another statistic for you (I hope there may be at least 1 politician who reads these posts) - the Gov want us to be clean (well apparently), well smoke this one:-
High street shops are closing due to booming internet shopping. So we are not taking 'dirty diesel' buses into town! Good? Well on Saturday, my wife counted 11 delivery vans in the space of 1 hr going down our quiet suburban street delivering online purchases. Now isn't that just fine!!! My God, these politician tossers!! Its NOT about the environment - its about TAX!

 

[WelshGas]

The number of annual premature deaths due to car accidents at 1785 is even smaller compared to those due to pollution or obesity..Seat belts and speed limits must seem so pointless.

That’s why there is now a Transplant Waiting List, especially due to the Seat Belt Laws.
The Law of Unintended Consequences.

 

[Lightning]

That’s why there is now a Transplant Waiting List, especially due to the Seat Belt Laws.
The Law of Unintended Consequences.

Seat belts made compulsory in 1991
Organ donor register introduced in 1994

 

[WelshGas]

Seat belts made compulsory in 1991
Organ donor register introduced in 1994

I know, I used to do the Tests and switch off the ventilators of the prospective Donors in the ICU .
From my point of view and my staff less testing and fewer families to interview. My colleagues on the Transplant Team , fewer transplants and a lot more patients and families to turn away.

 

[Lightning]

I know, I used to do the Tests and switch off the ventilators of the prospective Donors in the ICU .
From my point of view and my staff less testing and fewer families to interview. My colleagues on the Transplant Team , fewer transplants and a lot more patients and families to turn away.

UK Data


NHS Statement
More people than ever before across the UK donated their organs after their deaths last year, according to the Organ Donation and Transplantation Activity Report 2015/16, being published today.

 

[Amarillo]

View attachment 52342

I wonder why the drop from harvesting an average of 2.25 organs per donor in 1991 to just over 2 in 2013?

 

[WelshGas]

UK Data

View attachment 52342
NHS Statement
More people than ever before across the UK donated their organs after their deaths last year, according to the Organ Donation and Transplantation Activity Report 2015/16, being published today.

Exactly. The Introduction of seat Belts and other safety measures, air bags etc: reduced the expected rise in Organ Donation and hence transplants despite the rise in population and car ownership and hence the divergence of the Waiting list from Organ Donations despite all the input into the system of dedicated Transplant Co-ordinators additional ICU facilities and laterly presumed consent.

 

[Lightning]

Exactly. The Introduction of seat Belts and other safety measures, air bags etc: reduced the expected rise in Organ Donation and hence transplants despite the rise in population and car ownership and hence the divergence of the Waiting list from Organ Donations despite all the input into the system of dedicated Transplant Co-ordinators additional ICU facilities and laterly presumed consent.

 

[Amarillo]

Exactly. The Introduction of seat Belts and other safety measures, air bags etc: reduced the expected rise in Organ Donation and hence transplants despite the rise in population and car ownership and hence the divergence of the Waiting list from Organ Donations despite all the input into the system of dedicated Transplant Co-ordinators additional ICU facilities and laterly presumed consent.

Very good.

Despite the introduction of seat belts and air bags, the number of organs available for transplant rose, but this is bad news because the rise in organs available for transplant was less than the fifteen year forecast. Is this *really* what you are trying to say, or have I misunderstood?

 

[WelshGas]

Very good.

Despite the introduction of seat belts and air bags, the number of organs available for transplant rose, but this is bad news because the rise in organs available for transplant was less than the fifteen year forecast. Is this *really* what you are trying to say, or have I misunderstood?

Probably.
The rise anticipated in the late 80's based on projections relating to population growth, car ownership etc: failed to materialise after Seat belt Laws came in and were enforced. Over time other interventions such as airbags, better engineering of safety cells in vehicles all had an impact meaning the types of injuries changed. Coupled with advances in ICU etc: meant that more people survived without severe head injuries which had a significant impact on Organ Donor numbers.

 

[Amarillo]

Probably.
The rise anticipated in the late 80's based on projections relating to population growth, car ownership etc: failed to materialise after Seat belt Laws came in and were enforced. Over time other interventions such as airbags, better engineering of safety cells in vehicles all had an impact meaning the types of injuries changed. Coupled with advances in ICU etc: meant that more people survived without severe head injuries which had a significant impact on Organ Donor numbers.

And this is a bad thing overall? Sick people with chronic organ conditions die in fewer numbers because more organs are available for transplant, and fewer healthy people die from acute injury?

It sounds like win-win to me - except for those who fund the NHS.

 

[WelshGas]

And this is a bad thing overall? Sick people with chronic organ conditions die in fewer numbers because more organs are available for transplant, and fewer healthy people die from acute injury?

It sounds like win-win to me - except for those who fund the NHS.

If you notice the waiting list has increased significantly and more and more sucumb while still waiting for that phone call.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Damn those pesky safety features.

But seriously, it's interesting that those safety advances were in some cases invented within the car industry (eg the three-point seat belt, by Volvo, but car buyers weren't prepared to pay more for them and they really had to be enforced by regulators at national and international levels, in the public interest (okay, leaving aside prospective transplant patients if you want). A parallel here with the debate at hand about air pollution - ultimately governments will need to enforce vehicle bans or whatever else is needed.

 

[Velma's Dad]

If you notice the waiting list has increased significantly and more and more sucumb while still waiting for that phone call.

Sorry WG, it's hard to see where you're going with this. Yes we understand fewer accident deaths mean longer waits for transplants. So what's the solution to that then? (apart from enforcing a seat belt ban )

 

[WelshGas]

Damn those pesky safety features.

But seriously, it's interesting that those safety advances were in some cases invented within the car industry (eg the three-point seat belt, by Volvo, but car buyers weren't prepared to pay more for them and they really had to be enforced by regulators at national and international levels, in the public interest (okay, leaving aside prospective transplant patients if you want). A parallel here with the debate at hand about air pollution - ultimately governments will need to enforce vehicle bans or whatever else is needed.

I totally agree, BUT they should carefully consider the implications before they open their mouths. Eg: pushing diesel to save the planet, less CO2, at the expense of the local enviroment, more N2O and particles.
Sometimes you can't have everything.

 

[Velma's Dad]

I totally agree, BUT they should carefully consider the implications before they open their mouths. Eg: pushing diesel to save the planet, less CO2, at the expense of the local enviroment, more N2O and particles.
Sometimes you can't have everything.

From what I can see, the government in 2000 didn't actively try to 'push' diesel, they just failed to balance the CO2 and local pollution aspects in VED rates. Granted, that had the effect of incentivising diesel and certainly it was a grave policy error. But it seems to have happened because the government was scared of telling people what they wouldn't want to hear.

I echo your desire for careful pre-analysis of all policy decisions, to minimise the chances of unintended consequences (you can never eliminate them). My fear is that we're moving ever further from that right now, with the two main parties adopting populist stances in which the public is told what they believe it wants to hear, while good government based on sound, quiet evidence based policy-making stands little chance.

 

[Amarillo]

If you notice the waiting list has increased significantly and more and more sucumb while still waiting for that phone call.

Why have the waiting lists increased? Surely it is that more people with organ failure are going onto waiting lists rather being told there is nothing that can be done to help them?

Similarly, more people are succumbing while on the organ donor waiting list because more people are on the organ donor waiting list, and not because there are fewer donors around (there are more).

 

[GrannyJen]

Why have the waiting lists increased? Surely it is that more people with organ failure are going onto waiting lists rather being told there is nothing that can be done to help them?

Similarly, more people are succumbing while on the organ donor waiting list because more people are on the organ donor waiting list, and not because there are fewer donors around (there are more).

Plus NHS inefficiency!

I've been on the organ donor list for 20 years and no one has ever asked me for even a single organ!

 

[Velma's Dad]

Plus NHS inefficiency!

I've been on the organ donor list for 20 years and no one has ever asked me for even a single organ!

But you've given an arm and a leg in taxes, no?

 

[WelshGas]

Why have the waiting lists increased? Surely it is that more people with organ failure are going onto waiting lists rather being told there is nothing that can be done to help them?

Similarly, more people are succumbing while on the organ donor waiting list because more people are on the organ donor waiting list, and not because there are fewer donors around (there are more).

Correct, but Organ Donor numbers have not risen in line with population numbers due to the various changes in the law and safety measures introduced and despite attempts to increase Donor numbers by virtually abolishing age limits, introduction of Presumed Consent in Wales and Scotland and targeting Donor Families with specially trained Transplant/Organ Donation Co-Ordinators to get permission.Demand continues to outstrip supply.

 

[Lightning]

Correct, but Organ Donor numbers have not risen in line with population numbers due to the various changes in the law and safety measures introduced and despite attempts to increase Donor numbers by virtually abolishing age limits, introduction of Presumed Consent in Wales and Scotland and targeting Donor Families with specially trained Transplant/Organ Donation Co-Ordinators to get permission.Demand continues to outstrip supply.

You are confusing a consequence with an unintended consequence....

Dr Sheiner seems to understand that is is the advances in medical science which produced the unintended consequence of over subscribing the transplant donor list, not the intentional reduction is traffic fatalities.


The demand for organs has grown sharply, as medical science has improved the health and chances of survival for people with a wide range of ailments, like hepatitis C, making them candidates for new organs that no doctor would have tried to give them a few years ago. And the rise in obesity, diabetes and longevity has meant that many more people need new organs, particularly kidneys, which account for most transplants.

''It's not something people like to talk about, but it's been a pretty significant change that everyone in the transplant world has noticed,'' said Dr. Sheiner of the Westchester Medical Center. ''We don't want to sound like we're complaining about fewer people getting killed. The answer is for more people to be donors.''

 

[WelshGas]

You are confusing a consequence with an unintended consequence....

Dr Sheiner seems to understand that is is the advances in medical science which produced the unintended consequence of over subscribing the transplant donor list, not the intentional reduction is traffic fatalities.


The demand for organs has grown sharply, as medical science has improved the health and chances of survival for people with a wide range of ailments, like hepatitis C, making them candidates for new organs that no doctor would have tried to give them a few years ago. And the rise in obesity, diabetes and longevity has meant that many more people need new organs, particularly kidneys, which account for most transplants.

''It's not something people like to talk about, but it's been a pretty significant change that everyone in the transplant world has noticed,'' said Dr. Sheiner of the Westchester Medical Center. ''We don't want to sound like we're complaining about fewer people getting killed. The answer is for more people to be donors.''

You are entitled to your opinion as is this Dr Steiner of the Westchester Medical Centre, wherever that is. Didn’t realise there was such a NHS facility.