Bristol propose to ban diesel vehicles by March 2021

[Louis II]

In this case it really is that simple.
It is the NO2 and fine particulates which are subject of the study. Changing to EV in cities, where the population density is highest, directly improves local air quality. The reduction in pollution is said to directly increase the life expectancy of residents.
Scientists recognise that banning fossil fuelled cars from city centres has little impact of global CO2 levels, however it is considered helpful as a symbol of good intent.

The issue I have with the Bristol scheme and the wider range of anti diesel initiatives is that they encourage people to go petrol, because for the masses EV's don't yet represent a practical or economic solution. In doing so we are prioritising localised air pollution issues in the developed world over global ones that disproportionately affect less developed nations & their population. To me this seems incredibly selfish.

 

[Lightning]

The issue I have with the Bristol scheme and the wider range of anti diesel initiatives is that they encourage people to go petrol, because for the masses EV's don't yet represent a practical or economic solution. In doing so we are prioritising localised air pollution issues in the developed world over global ones that disproportionately affect less developed nations & their population. To me this seems incredibly selfish.

As it’s diesels which have the most detrimental impact on local air quality, it does make sense as a local solution, which is what the mayor is responsible for tackling.
I imagine it’s an interim stage which will no doubt be updated as EVs or other technologies become more affordable and practical. The Bristol scheme has been carefully designed to not impact low income families disproportionately.

 

[GSX1300R]

ALL of the people on this forum drive a Diesel vehicle...If anyone has an answer that we can convert to quickly then now is your opportunity to speak up. We were all actually hoping that our vehicles would at least hold some value for the next few years until the alternative came along....

 

[Lightning]

ALL of the people on this forum drive a Diesel vehicle...If anyone has an answer that we can convert to quickly then now is your opportunity to speak up. We were all actually hoping that our vehicles would at least hold some value for the next few years until the alternative came along....

I don’t.

 

[GSX1300R]

I don’t.

Exactly..Nobody knows...

 

[Lightning]

Exactly..Nobody knows...

I meant mines petrol. The bans are only affecting city centres at the moment, so you could just get the park and ride...

 

[GSX1300R]

I meant mines petrol. The bans are only affecting city centres at the moment, so you could just get the park and ride...

If VW decided that they would not make Diesel engines any longer that I think would be the death of the commercial vehicle along with the California and it’s derivatives. All of a sudden Diesel has become the devil and petrol is now our saviour. Neither of them would you want to constantly breathe in the exhaust fumes and both should be banned from “City centres”.....

 

[Lightning]

If VW decided that they would not make Diesel engines any longer that I think would be the death of the commercial vehicle along with the California and it’s derivatives. All of a sudden Diesel has become the devil and petrol is now our saviour. Neither of them would you want to constantly breathe in the exhaust fumes and both should be banned from “City centres”.....

Diesel has higher NOX and particulates emissions which cause the adverse health effects. Banning diesel allows them to meet the legal limits without the need to ban petrol.

EV commercial vehicles are on the way too. Amazon have ordered 200000 EV trucks in the states for delivery to start in the next couple of years.

The VW ID range will be phased in and internal combustion range phase out over the coming decade.

 

[Joker 1299]

Diesel has higher NOX and particulates emissions which cause the adverse health effects. Banning diesel allows them to meet the legal limits without the need to ban petrol.

EV commercial vehicles are on the way too. Amazon have ordered 200000 EV trucks in the states for delivery to start in the next couple of years.

The VW ID range will be phased in and internal combustion range phase out over the coming decade.

Lightning saves the world with his three ton petrol burner! Only kidding mate. We re all in this together.

 

[Lightning]

Lightning saves the world with his three ton petrol burner! Only kidding mate. We re all in this together.

I own a flat in Bristol city centre (although I’m travelling at the moment). I’m not sure what I would do with my van if it was diesel as the van applies to residents too.

 

[Bellcrew]

I own a flat in Bristol city centre (although I’m travelling at the moment). I’m not sure what I would do with my van if it was diesel as the van applies to residents too.

The practical differences between the NOx/particulate emissions of Euro 6 petrol and diesel engines is negligible although petrol is approximately 25% less efficient, but of course these cities know this.
What date are wood burning stoves, gas boilers or gas hobs etc being made illegal in these city centres? These devices are likely to give off high concentrations of NOx actually in the homes and in the case of wood burners lots of PM10 particulates.
Smoking in front of children in the home is perfectly legal just too difficult to regulate so ignored.
Much lung disease such as Asthma is triggered by pet hairs/skin, pollen, mould spores etc, none of which can be taxed but are proven definite killers not just a statistical probability of shortening of life expectancy.
I am an enthusiastic advocate of clean air but gestures that do not discriminate between rational affordable engineering solutions and knee jerk bans are just absurd and/or tax scams.

 

[Lightning]

The practical differences between the NOx/particulate emissions of Euro 6 petrol and diesel engines is negligible although petrol is approximately 25% less efficient, but of course these cities know this.
What date are wood burning stoves, gas boilers or gas hobs etc being made illegal in these city centres? These devices are likely to give off high concentrations of NOx actually in the homes and in the case of wood burners lots of PM10 particulates.
Smoking in front of children in the home is perfectly legal just too difficult to regulate so ignored.
Much lung disease such as Asthma is triggered by pet hairs/skin, pollen, mould spores etc, none of which can be taxed but are proven definite killers not just a statistical probability of shortening of life expectancy.
I am an enthusiastic advocate of clean air but gestures that do not discriminate between rational affordable engineering solutions and knee jerk bans are just absurd and/or tax scams.

It’s not just Euro 6 they are banning. It’s all diesels, where the practical difference between petrol and diesel is much greater. It appears to be an academic research based ban, which takes account of avoiding a disproportionate impact on low income families. Having read the proposal and associated FAQ it appears well researched and well thought through. It’s a pragmatic solution designed to quickly bring pollution levels within legal limits. If further measures are required they will be obliged by law to introduce them to meet the legal limits. No such limits are defined for pollen count.
We are all hypocrites in this environmental debate and we don’t have to change everything in one go. Over time more and more measures will be introduced as the will to do so is now there amongst the majority of people.

 

[Lightning]

Also:

 

[Lightning]

According to this it’s 20%

The calorific value of diesel fuel is roughly 45.5 MJ/kg (megajoules per kilogram), slightly lower than petrol which is 45.8 MJ/kg. However, diesel fuel is denser than petrol and contains about 15% more energy by volume (roughly 36.9 MJ/litre compared to 33.7 MJ/litre). Accounting for the difference in energy density, the overall efficiency of the diesel engine is still some 20% greater than the petrol engine, despite the diesel engine also being heavier.

 

[Louis II]

Lightning saves the world with his three ton petrol burner! Only kidding mate. We re all in this together.

Not the world, just the residents of Bristol City center. Doing more damage to the world than the rest of us.

 

[T6 CFO]

I own a flat in Bristol city centre (although I’m travelling at the moment). I’m not sure what I would do with my van if it was diesel as the van applies to residents too.

Below is an extract from a newsletter circulated by the Lib Dem Councillor for Spike Island in Bristol.


Lib Dems submit Clean Air Plan mitigation motion

The Mayor's unexpected decision to simply merge his two previous options for the Clean Air plan has thrown up a lot of potential problems. The Lib Dem group has submitted a motion to Council calling for mitigation measures on as many of these issues as possible:

* A longer transition period for phasing out ownership by *residents* in the inner zone of all private diesel cars
* Exempting diesel vehicles that meet Euro-6 standards from the diesel ban, to allay risk that these may be replaced by poorer quality older petrol vehicles, delivering worse outcomes
* Preparation and consultation on an impact analysis, and resulting mitigation, for the closure of the eastbound Cumberland Basin to all vehicles except buses
* Alternative provisions for access to the many hospitals within the zone
* Examining how to provide additional funds where needed to top up the measly £2,000 so-called scrappage scheme
* Exempting disabled people from zone restrictions

Lib Dem West of England spokesman Stephen Williams says the Bristol Mayor is blundering ahead with a flawed plan, "Mayor Rees should be working with our neighbouring councils to clean up our diesel buses and taxis. It is not fair to force people out of their cars when the alternatives are also polluting our city."




I also have a flat in the affected area. When in Bristol I walk or cycle and purely park the Cali when I return from trips.

I am though in favour of cleaner air in City’s but not without some thought and consultation.

I’m no expert but our Mayor seems to be in favour of bold plans to make a big media impact and then row back later.

Let’s see what happens and how and when it is implemented.




Mike

 

[Lightning]

Not the world, just the residents of Bristol City center. Doing more damage to the world than the rest of us.

I doubt it.

 

[Lightning]

Below is an extract from a newsletter circulated by the Lib Dem Councillor for Spike Island in Bristol.


Lib Dems submit Clean Air Plan mitigation motion

The Mayor's unexpected decision to simply merge his two previous options for the Clean Air plan has thrown up a lot of potential problems. The Lib Dem group has submitted a motion to Council calling for mitigation measures on as many of these issues as possible:

* A longer transition period for phasing out ownership by *residents* in the inner zone of all private diesel cars
* Exempting diesel vehicles that meet Euro-6 standards from the diesel ban, to allay risk that these may be replaced by poorer quality older petrol vehicles, delivering worse outcomes
* Preparation and consultation on an impact analysis, and resulting mitigation, for the closure of the eastbound Cumberland Basin to all vehicles except buses
* Alternative provisions for access to the many hospitals within the zone
* Examining how to provide additional funds where needed to top up the measly £2,000 so-called scrappage scheme
* Exempting disabled people from zone restrictions

Lib Dem West of England spokesman Stephen Williams says the Bristol Mayor is blundering ahead with a flawed plan, "Mayor Rees should be working with our neighbouring councils to clean up our diesel buses and taxis. It is not fair to force people out of their cars when the alternatives are also polluting our city."




I also have a flat in the affected area. When in Bristol I walk or cycle and purely park the Cali when I return.

I am though in favour of cleaner air in City’s but not without some thought and consultation.

I’m no expert but our Mayor seems to be in favour of bold plans to make a big media impact and then row back later.

Let’s see what happens and how and when it is implemented.




Mike

Well, it’s not an impartial objective response is it. There is an element of Mayors bold response but it’s less radical than the Birmingham proposal. If they need to iron out problems they can and will. If it reduces the pollution levels, then it will have worked.

 

[T6 CFO]

Well, it’s not an impartial objective response is it. There is an element of Mayors bold response but it’s less radical than the Birmingham proposal. If they need to iron out problems they can and will. If it reduces the pollution levels, then it will have worked.

I was pointing out what debate is actually happening on the subject.

It seems to me that to actually have debate in order to get things right is better than alarming people unnecessarily for political gain.

It might even make our air cleaner which is something I desire.




Mike

 

[Lightning]

I don’t think it’s alarming people. It’s intended to reduce pollution to legal levels by 2025. There has been a consultation, and it seems well thought through.

Clean Air for Bristol | Clean air for everyone | Bristol Clean Air Zone

Find out about Bristol's plans for clean air including the Clean Air Zone which will reduce harmful pollution from vehicles.

www.cleanairforbristol.org

 

[flying banana]

When they actually give us an alternative it will make sense. But for now it's just a tax. If a tram passed near my house and near where I worked... Ran 24hrs a day and I used my car then I deserve to be punished. But public transport is shockingly bad up here. The North. Impossible to get to Sheffield for a 7am start at work. So I HAVE to drive my dirty diesel and suspect I will always have to

 

[Trevor Brown]

And like so many matters today, it is difficult to be sure that what is being presented is the truth, and even more difficult to ascertain that this "truth" isn't skewed by being arrived at by a narrow perspective.

 

[Digger]

My concern is the mad rush and hysteria which may result in a very bad outcome. We need to do a lot but we also need to plan and get it right. Banning diesels will achieve very little as they still are in daily use elsewhere and will be for a long time. As for city driving - give the public excellent public transport and they will use it.

 

[Lightning]

My concern is the mad rush and hysteria which may result in a very bad outcome. We need to do a lot but we also need to plan and get it right. Banning diesels will achieve very little as they still are in daily use elsewhere and will be for a long time. As for city driving - give the public excellent public transport and they will use it.

The Bristol ban is based upon academic research and will improve local air quality in the city centre which is where the problem exists, by 2025.
Doesn’t appear too hysterical.

 

[Dave Wickham]

And so the arguments go on! I doubt there is any sensible human being that doesn't agree that the human race needs to deal with pollution that contributes so much to global warming and health issues. However many of the proposals local and national governments want to implement are so flawed. If you are cynical you may say that many of the schemes (such as that proposed by Bristol council) are really more about raising money than improving the environment. Its a convenient smoke screen to hide behind. Regarding Bristol's scheme, consider 2 of the important facts laid out in their 'Clean Air Zone FAQ Document':-
- they don't differentiate between different diesel engines (euro 6 vs 20 yr old diesels!!)
- a non-compliant commercial vehicle can enter the clean air zone if they pay a charge (private diesels don't pay a charge). Having paid that charge they can also enter the diesel ban zone (ALL private diesels are banned in this zone between 07.00 and 15.00 - regardless if its Euro 6 compliant! Petrol cars are exempt!). So what does that tell you - they don't mind if your diesel engine is spewing out black smoke in the diesel ban zone if you have paid the charge to enter the clean air zone!! So tough s**t on the asthmatic child so long as the council get its money!!!
If they were really serious about health and the environment ALL petrol and diesel vehicles would be banned for the diesel ban area, but we all know the difficulty of implementing that!!
One other thing - I will bet you my next years salary that the ANR cameras installed to 'catch' offenders will be strategically placed so as to be difficult to spot = more money for the council.
Yes, you guessed it - I am a cynic in this matter and always will be until I see that our authorities put the environment and health before making money!!!! Its just more 'rip-off' Britain.