Does a T5 Cali beat a bigger camper and a cheap car? DECISION MADE

[2into1]

As my profile picture shows, I currently run a 1999 T4 Westfalia Exclusive. For daily use I have an 06 Skoda 1.9 Diesel Estate 4x4.

Because I spend too long on this forum, and am being subjected to 'Group Think' of all you enthusiasts, I keep toying with the idea of selling them both and having just a T5 Cali, to do both the 'everyday driver' and 'holiday' uses, and hopefully fill in that bit in the middle.

So, I've bagged myself a well priced and well cared for Silver 56 plate 174hp Tiptronic (5th seat etc) and have just started a LIVE comparison to decide which set-up really suits my needs. I've tried doing the exercise in my head, but failed. Both my Exclusive and Skoda are too good to sell and regret, so I've given myself a month (max) to decide which to keep and which to sell..

Hopefully by journalling my thoughts here, it may help the 'Cali as an everyday vehicle' debate.

I'll explain a bit about my current set-up in the next thread. Please add your thoughts, but non of that Paul Mckenna stuff!

 

[2into1]

So. What has the T5 Cali got to 'beat'?

Well, my current profile shows my Westfalia California Exclusive. High Top, Long Wheel Base. Equipment wise it has everything a T5 Cali has plus a Loo, and stacks of storage.
It's not the best looker from the outside (although I think it's about the best colour), but to camp and tour with, I think it takes some beating. It's 2.7m tall and 14" longer than a T5 Cali so you need to be a bit careful where you go, but the same width.
There are some interior videos on youtube showing the layout. This is the best of a poor bunch.

What I love about the interior, is that the kitchen is separate from the lounge. So lounge activities can continue while meals are prepared. There is also a separate Loo compartment, so using that doesn't stop play either.
It's a high top, so my 6'4" frame can stand straight away on entering (until the top bed is pulled out).
It's a hard top so great in poor weather. 20 degrees C inside and frost on the outside in winter.

It dates to late 1999 and was obviously retailed in Germany (Left hand drive). 8 years ago, it was sold by a motorhome dealer for £20k. Based on recent sales, it would fetch quite close to that today in a private sale (78k miles).


110 Amp Leisure battery, eberspacher heater, small solar panel, seen here on its way to Skye in 2014. It's got so much storage that I'm still using the tins of beans and rice puddings (and wearing some of the tea shirts) I packed for that trip!

Westfalia's build quality is stunning. So robust compared to the T5, but heavy...and 102hp so not so speedy, although I've never found that a problem. Will edge 39 mpg if driven gently (60ish on the motorways). I'm not a private numberplate sort of person but couldn't resist the T4 WFA that was sitting neglected on the dvla site.

But I've not got so much use out of it this year due to many personal reasons, and it sits there, undercover waiting to be used.

The everyday driver is a now well battered Skoda Estate. Worth about £1800. Does 45 to the gallon. 4x4 drive and all season tyres makes it useful in winter. I've had it 6 years. A real workhorse (and looks like it). Lives outside and under trees, it's washed twice a year whether it needs it or not! I actually quite like having a vehicle that I don't fret about getting dented in car parks, or dirty on tip-runs etc.

I'll show you the new (to me) T5 next.

 

[andyinluton]

What stops you using the T4 as your everyday vehicle? I've been through a similar process swapping a 7m motorhome for a cali & now getting rid of the everyday car (well swapping it for something a bit special) as the cali fulfils 99% of my motoring needs. The wife car does the other 1%.

 

[2into1]

So, having first bagged a 2012 T5 Berghaus Cali (and then quickly let it go on discovering the £30k of finance outstanding....) Note: It was not the one advertised on here, I went on to find a 56 plate 174hp Tiptronic in Silver, for sale by a very genuine old couple who were finding the roof bed too much of a challenge.

69k miles, 2 owners plus demo. Only used in Summer for the last 5 years (? before). I was expecting terrible roof rot but there is only one very (VERY) small blister on the front panel and nothing visible on the main section. I've not pulled the rubber back yet. I may not!

On it's first control panel. It's a little bit 'skippy' but fine if you go slow. The seller didn't follow the forum (he was usually in Italy in his Cali for months on end), so his ownership hadn't been worried about these two major Cali worries.

It is crying out for (and will get if kept) Privacy (or darker) glass to the rear. 5th seat included. Wheels are 17" and original (I thought they were after market at first). Amazing condition for 9 years old.

I wasn't seeking a Tiptronic but am enjoying it for the relaxed drive it offers. Arms rests down, enjoying the view even on tricky lanes. A 60mph drive back saw 40.5mpg on the computer (I know...) which was very pleasing. Around town, it is going to drink a bit.

One of the canvas windows has a broken zip. The heater (Webasto) seems to be just doing cold air (but it was a hot day when I tested it) so it has the usual few problems to sort with a private vehicle, but came with the night heater remote, safety nets, original blinds and fly screens etc.

 

[2into1]

What stops you using the T4 as your everyday vehicle? I've been through a similar process swapping a 7m motorhome for a cali & now getting rid of the everyday car (well swapping it for something a bit special) as the cali fulfils 99% of my motoring needs. The wife car does the other 1%.

Andy, it's a combination of the height, length, no rear window (although it has 2 cameras which offers a better view than the T5). I can't use the main IKEA car park (been there a lot recently!), it overhangs the parking bays at Tesco's etc. The LHD is the least of the problems.
Your question has made me think a bit more deeply about this - Underlying the above, there is also a feeling of an "event" when I go out in it, and I think a part of me wants to keep it in as good order as possible (as it seems to be appreciating in value).
Back to finding excuses, it can't go in the low emission zone in London............ which occasionally would be a problem.

 

[Hotel California]

Why change now , what about driving 2 to 3 years in the same cars and then go for a T6?
I defanatly like my Cali , but you also got plusses on yours...
I am sometimes thinking that in say 15 to 20 years when appoching my 60s a VAN with more height space and a loo will be ideal.
Offcoarse yours is a '99 with probally high mileage and you are thinking relybillity and coast...
I say think about it carefully .....

 

[2into1]

I should admit that I almost made this switch last year, when a mint 2002 150hp Westy pop top came up underpriced on the forum. I bought that with the same 'test' idea, but decided to move it on and stick with the Exclusive AND the Skoda.
That was still LHD but crucially lacked the deckchairs in the tailgate / table in the door, and I should have added in reply to Andy, the T4's are rather harder work to drive than the T5's:
The seating position is van-like, the gear stick is 3 foot long, everything is heavier to operate.

 

[2into1]

Why change now , what about driving 2 to 3 years in the same cars and then go for a T6?
I defanatly like my Cali , but you also got plusses on yours...
I am sometimes thinking that in say 15 to 20 years when appoching my 60s a VAN with more height space and a loo will be ideal.
Offcoarse yours is a '99 with probally high mileage and you are thinking relybillity and coast...
I say think about it carefully .....

Thanks - Although buying a T6 would be an option, I don't want to put that much cash into a vehicle. Obviously if the residuals continue the way they are they won't be a bad bet!
I'm self employed and don't commute, so even a single vehicle will sit on the drive a fair bit of time. The current debate sees a similar amount of funds invested - the rest can go into wine...........

 

[motacyclist]

Interesting to read your thoughts and logic on all this, I sympathise with your dilemma and hope you come to the right decision in the end!

 

[larrylamb]

Simples, sell the Skoda.

 

[andyinluton]

I would ditch the skoda as well as long as you aren't going to do silly miles in the van. I'm also self employed & work from home most days & my worry with getting rid of the other car is that I might end up with a contract for a couple of months that involves a 150 mile round trip commute, or means I have to leave the cali at a station car park all the time. For me loosing one car will save me about £4k in a year which I am sure more than covers any additional wear & tear on the cali.

Something that only you can put a value on is the driving experience, out of the three cars we have the cali is my favourite for commuting into london, long distance driving, going shopping and waiting around at kids football matches. The only times I prefer to take a different car are going to watch football & parking at the station, in both cases its because I stand a better chance of finding a parking space with a smaller car.

I don't know if you have another car in the household but the only thing stopping us replacing her car with a beach is that all the town centre car parks here are 1.8m headroom.

 

[2into1]

Keep the comments coming. I'm using the T5 Cali as if it were my only vehicle this week. My observation this evening was how my mind went into 'worry mode' on hearing kids mucking about outside the event I was attending. I wouldn't have given it a second thought had the battered Skoda been left outside as normal!
The Cali feels much bigger and wider than the Skoda but on paper the differences are minimal. I think it's just getting used to the 'bulk' in tighter situations than I'm used to, and just adapting to a 'new' car generally.

An initial cost comparison 'forecast' showed there not to be a lot between the two scenarios because the Skoda is already worth so little and the Westy is static / appreciating. The T5 Cali depreciating at say £1500 / year swallows the savings on 2x insurance /tax/mot etc.

 

[andyinluton]

Any saving I make by getting rid of one car will be quickly lost when I put forward the argument that I'm now doing too many miles in the cali, but if I went and bought another Caterham for summer use, the costs of the caterham would be covered by the better residuals on the cali Do you think SWTSMBO will go for it?

 

[Meoncoast]

Great post. Our Cali being our only vehicle, we did a lot of pre thinking about using as a daily drive. Conclusion after all the advise, it works for us. We also made the decision that we would keep, the van long term and use to the maximum rather than it siting on the drive being a low milage.Just add beding and milk and we are ready for the off, just push seat forward and we are ready for Ikea.

 

[pjm-84]

I've gone the other way and added a Fiat 500. I need a car for work and construction sites so wasn't too keen on taking the Cali. The Fiat is working out really well.

 

[2into1]

I've gone the other way and added a Fiat 500. I need a car for work and construction sites so wasn't too keen on taking the Cali. The Fiat is working out really well.

Had you known that you'd end up with your Fiat 500, would you have gone for a bigger camper (dare I say the word 'motorhome'!) or still gone and bought a Cali?

 

[pjm-84]

Nope Cali as it needs to go on the drive and we use it day to day.

Fiat beside it. GSA in the garage and the X5 is parked on the road.

 

[sidepod]

A man can never have too many modes of transport.
Keep em all.

pod

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Good luck with the experiment. Remember to tuck the canvas in

 

[sidepod]

Does this mean we need a third forum section for those with a foot in each camp?
Cant believe T4WFA is considering crossing to the dark/light (delete according to taste) side!

No brainer in my op. The T5 is an infinitely bettetr 'car' for everyday use than the T4. It should be it's 20 year younger technology.
Parked up on site there is no difference, the vehicles are identical. So, taking that into consideration, you've just bought a very expensive car? Whatever, as long as you're happy that's all that matters. Enjoy.

Pod.

 

[2into1]

So, I've had the Cali (T5) for 4 days. It's been in daily driver mode but will (at the weekend) do a Britstop type stay over at a country pub, then off on a camping trip to Pembrokeshire.

So; observations so far:
* The beds 'appear' more comfortable than I'd expected from following the forum. I'll learn more this (topperless) weekend!
* The tambour doors feel so flimsy yet stiff to operate. Will silicon spray improve them? The irony is the smoothest tambour is over the cab and won't stay shut (as we all know).
* VW's cabinet design, added to the picnic chairs & table having homes that don't rob any space, means that there is much more storage space than I expected.
* I'm feeling more confident with the 'bulk' in everyday tight situations. With the modern car feel and high seating, I can see why you enjoy driving them so much. It's a huge 'comfort' step up from the T4 but the engine noise seems slightly more obtrusive (although there are 174 horses in there vs 102.....)

So, as a daily driver, the 'compromise' is quite manageable, perhaps even preferable over the Skoda. We'll see how it performs as a camper this next week.

 

[Skylark2.0]

Ok, so we come from an unusual situation currently having a T5 Cali 80 DSG 4 Motion "Starlight" a RAV4 and a 1996 toyota Granvia auto 4wd diesel hightop campervan "Skylark"

We are on the brink of selling the Skylark (ok so I am a bit sentimental...) she is 4cm narrower than a Cali and easily fits in a parking spot, none of this "ooh they are too close to the line on one side and a bit squewiff" she steers like a dream and has a mirror at the back that shows me exactly what is behind me. The Cali "Starlight Express" over fits the spaces and leaves you with, "hmm, what exactly does the red line mean on the parking sensor or is it detecting a bit of fluff again" and is someone going to carelessly open their door on my £50k investment or worse scrape it down the side...

On the other hand then bed in the Cali is so much more comfortable with the comfort extra mattress and the son fits better and sleeps better in the pop top. Lets face it at 6'4" he doesn't fit in the top of the Granvia (we get sea sick as he is squirming up top, bit like trying to get a quart in a pint pot).

When we tried to go away in February in the Granvia we had to stay in a Travel lodge as it was so cold (-7). Then again when there was a gale force wind and horizontal driving rain in the pop top Cali we had to decamp to a B&B at £100 for the 3 of us. Talk about blowing the budget. In the high top Granvia we may have been rocked to sleep but we would have braved it.

Then there is the drive, after 2 hrs drive in the Granvia you heed to unfold out of the van. After 5 hrs with minimal stops in the Cali you spring out full of energy after the luxurious drive.

I have heard complaints about the economy of the Cali but 35 mpg works for me, The Granvia is more like 7 km/L (22mpg?!) on a good run.

I miss the hightop so much more than the pop top. If i could have a 180 dsg 4motion high top then I would have hit the jackpot I think.

Oops, I got carried away with this message

 

[chuggertwo]

As a family blue exclusive member have been following this adventure with interest . Love the versatility of the Exclusive given the space it occupies...sure there are frustrations ...toyed with contrasting comparing with ...dare i admit it it...(what you get for your money) with a ford westfalia nugget ...but ducked out, we drive second car skoda fabia estate... a bit like a sewing machine but in it's own way reliable and useful, we use the exclusive quite a bit too day to day as well as trips away. Still works for us but always curious and willing to be challenged.

 

[Open_road!]

You see I wish we had carried out this level of reasoned analysis. Our driveway has gone out of control in the last month or so. I use my workhorse of a freelander for day to day as a lot of my work time is spent on building sites, but also have a 1982 Mercedes 380sl in the garage for sunny days, (it also served as our wedding car and we took it around Europe for our honeymoon). The hubby has a boxter, and I took it upon myself to jump in and buy a Cali, (very sensible family decision)...which arrived a month or so ago.
Hubby then unbeknownced to me won, (grrrrrh) an online auction for a 1983 Porsche 928..... Nice surprise on getting home from work on Monday! The irony?, our 8,month old's car seat will only fit in the freelander and the Cali. !!!

 

[Skylark2.0]

You see I wish we had carried out this level of reasoned analysis. Our driveway has gone out of control in the last month or so. I use my workhorse of a freelander for day to day as a lot of my work time is spent on building sites, but also have a 1982 Mercedes 380sl in the garage for sunny days, (it also served as our wedding car and we took it around Europe for our honeymoon). The hubby has a boxter, and I took it upon myself to jump in and buy a Cali, (very sensible family decision)...which arrived a month or so ago.
Hubby then unbeknownced to me won, (grrrrrh) an online auction for a 1983 Porsche 928..... Nice surprise on getting home from work on Monday! The irony?, our 8,month old's car seat will only fit in the freelander and the Cali. !!!

Try and look a couple of years ahead to see what will work?!