Downside of going for a 3.88T Grand California?

[Maidment_Ocean]

Hi All, Planning to upgrade from an Ocean to a Grand in the near future, the last specification question I am debating over is the upgrading the GVW to 3.88t. I am old enough to have grandfather rights and not worried about the long term resale value.
The upside is more weight for storage but what are the other downsides to going for the bigger weight, your thoughts would be appreciated?

 

[SanderR72]

I’m not sure whether that would apply to you, but I saw a YouTube video (that I can’t find anymore) saying something about the need for a C driver license (big trucks) with that weight or at least a maximum speed limit on the highway if you don’t have such a license.

 

[GordonH]

The big advantage is payload and total number of various options you can have on a 600. You can get a 600 @3.5t but payload will obviously be more limited. All UK 680s are 3.88t so it's moot if that's the van you are considering. A lower vehicle tax is also a benefit, currently £171 per year. I've not found any particular disadvantages in the UK (I have a 3.88t 600) as the vast majority of our roads do not have tolls but on mainland Europe tolls in some counties are higher and/or more of a faff (eg not available online/digitally). Speed limits are different and vary by country, including in the UK. Also anecdotally I've noticed >3.5t restrictions seems more common in the EU, no idea why, could have been just the areas we have been to. As you know you do need a C1 to drive anything other than an EV >3.5t (EVs allowed up to 4.25t). If you took your test pre-1997 then you have that be default. After age 70 you will need a regular medical to keep that category on your license. In the EU there was a directive passed earlier this year to allow the standard B category license to be used up to 4.25t on motorhomes and some other vehicle types and it is now just a matter of time before its rolled into law by each of the member states with some possible variation in how they implement. Last year there was a UK consultation on upping the B license to a higher number, perhaps back to 7.5t per the pre-1997 license but at a guess if it ever does change in the UK we will likely follow the EU and restrict to 4.25t especially given the situation with EVs being already allowed at that higher weight.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Think you also need to have those minging ‘Angles Morts’ signs stuck on the side of your van when travelling in Europe. Definitely minus points in the cool factor stakes

 

[GordonH]

Think you also need to have those minging ‘Angles Morts’ signs stuck on the side of your van when travelling in Europe. Definitely minus points in the cool factor stakes

Only for France. Magnetic ones can be fixed/removed in seconds.

 

[Maidment_Ocean]

I’m not sure whether that would apply to you, but I saw a YouTube video (that I can’t find anymore) saying something about the need for a C driver license (big trucks) with that weight or at least a maximum speed limit on the highway if you don’t have such a license.

Thanks, my licence already has C1.

 

[Maidment_Ocean]

The big advantage is payload and total number of various options you can have on a 600. You can get a 600 @3.5t but payload will obviously be more limited. All UK 680s are 3.88t so it's moot if that's the van you are considering. A lower vehicle tax is also a benefit, currently £171 per year. I've not found any particular disadvantages in the UK (I have a 3.88t 600) as the vast majority of our roads do not have tolls but on mainland Europe tolls in some counties are higher and/or more of a faff (eg not available online/digitally). Speed limits are different and vary by country, including in the UK. Also anecdotally I've noticed >3.5t restrictions seems more common in the EU, no idea why, could have been just the areas we have been to. As you know you do need a C1 to drive anything other than an EV >3.5t (EVs allowed up to 4.25t). If you took your test pre-1997 then you have that be default. After age 70 you will need a regular medical to keep that category on your license. In the EU there was a directive passed earlier this year to allow the standard B category license to be used up to 4.25t on motorhomes and some other vehicle types and it is now just a matter of time before its rolled into law by each of the member states with some possible variation in how they implement. Last year there was a UK consultation on upping the B license to a higher number, perhaps back to 7.5t per the pre-1997 license but at a guess if it ever does change in the UK we will likely follow the EU and restrict to 4.25t especially given the situation with EVs being already allowed at that higher weight.

Thanks for the detailed response, I am considering the 600. For speeds presume it’s 60 on motorways and dual carriageways, 50 on single carriageway. Tolls issues in France would be a pain, have the Emovis tag in my Ocean today and it’s brilliant. I am thinking it will just be me and the wife and small dog, we are unlikely to carry bikes, so maybe we will be ok with 3.5t.

 

[GordonH]

UK is 50/60/70 single/dual/motorway. Lots of variation across the EU.

 

[GordonH]

French tolls may get you on height in a 600 depending on spec (class 3 toll if over 3M or 3.5t)

 

[colintfcolintf]

Fuel economy will be worse, and possibly insurance. They’ll be some roads that are not so easy (you are wider and longer) and they’ll be more places you can’t park. But, you’ll have many advantages as well

 

[andyinluton]

Fuel economy will be worse, and possibly insurance. They’ll be some roads that are not so easy (you are wider and longer)

Why would having a GC plated at 3.88tnne make the van wider or longer and have worse economy than plating it at 3.5tnne

 

[Maidment_Ocean]

UK is 50/60/70 single/dual/motorway. Lots of variation across the EU.

Thanks Google let me down....

 

[andyinluton]

Hi All, Planning to upgrade from an Ocean to a Grand in the near future, the last specification question I am debating over is the upgrading the GVW to 3.88t. I am old enough to have grandfather rights and not worried about the long term resale value.

Uk speed limits are the same for a 600 whichever weight plate as it’s based on unladen weight ( under 3.05 tonnes) and the limits are the same as a car. Ie 60/70/70 not the 50/60/70 previously suggested.
It makes a difference to speed limits and tolls in France and beyond although many owners appear to ignore it & hope everyone assumes it’s 3.5tnne.
Check what options you are going for if you don’t want an awning or towbar that saves a lot of payload. Ditto if you don’t intend running around with 100litres of water in the tank.

 

[colintfcolintf]

Why would having a GC plated at 3.88tnne make the van wider or longer and have worse economy than plating it at 3.5tnne

Silly me, I was comparing to a Cali - please ignore all my comments above - sorry

 

[Maidment_Ocean]

Silly me, I was comparing to a Cali - please ignore all my comments above - sorry

I will be coming from a Cali, so I know what you mean, already factored that in!

 

[Kev56]

Just flicking through this and happily stick with my Cali Ocean

 

[andde]

French tolls may get you on height in a 600 depending on spec (class 3 toll if over 3M or 3.5t)

We own a 600, and the tool is class 2 .
when i bought mine, coming from a cali, my first worry was the lenght ...
i'm happy with the 600 every time i have to enter my parking at home !

 

[GordonH]

We own a 600, and the tool is class 2 .
when i bought mine, coming from a cali, my first worry was the lenght ...
i'm happy with the 600 every time i have to enter my parking at home !

As said, depends on spec. If you have the Sat dish or habitation AC you are over 3M in a 600 so class 3. The toll booths have height sensors, some appear more sensitive that others as we rarely get class 3 charges in the first stretch after Calais but always charged class 3 on most of the other autoroutes around France. We have the AC. .

 

[GordonH]

Uk speed limits are the same for a 600 whichever weight plate as it’s based on unladen weight ( under 3.05 tonnes) and the limits are the same as a car. Ie 60/70/70 not the 50/60/70 previously suggested.
It makes a difference to speed limits and tolls in France and beyond although many owners appear to ignore it & hope everyone assumes it’s 3.5tnne.
Check what options you are going for if you don’t want an awning or towbar that saves a lot of payload. Ditto if you don’t intend running around with 100litres of water in the tank.

You may well be technically correct regarding the UK unladen weight but it would be nice to have a definitive document as there is nothing I have ever found beyond my V5 (3161kg ‘mass in service’). and the brochure. The VW brochure specifically uses the term ‘unladen weight’ and both the 3.5t and 3.88t are over the 3050kg figure at 3098kg and 3101kg respectively. It then goes on to state the ‘unladen weight’ includes a 75kg driver, 90% of fuel and 20kg of water, around 155kg that would not be included in the DVLAs version of what unladen weight means. The grey area is how you spec the van as the VW weight is the standard van without any options. Many of those options are heavy - habitation ac, sat system, tow bar, roof bed, spare wheel etc and its not unreasonable to see those options adding 100kg+ to the VW figure putting you back over 3050. Then go on to include aftermarket things like all terrain tyres, bigger alloys, rear ladder, spare wheel mount and you end up in uncertain territory. As said a formal doc from VW would be helpful. At the moment I err on the side of caution in the UK. It’s clear cut in Europe.

 

[Maidment_Ocean]

You may well be technically correct regarding the UK unladen weight but it would be nice to have a definitive document as there is nothing I have ever found beyond my V5 (3161kg ‘mass in service’). and the brochure. The VW brochure specifically uses the term ‘unladen weight’ and both the 3.5t and 3.88t are over the 3050kg figure at 3098kg and 3101kg respectively. It then goes on to state the ‘unladen weight’ includes a 75kg driver, 90% of fuel and 20kg of water, around 155kg that would not be included in the DVLAs version of what unladen weight means. The grey area is how you spec the van as the VW weight is the standard van without any options. Many of those options are heavy - habitation ac, sat system, tow bar, roof bed, spare wheel etc and its not unreasonable to see those options adding 100kg+ to the VW figure putting you back over 3050. Then go on to include aftermarket things like all terrain tyres, bigger alloys, rear ladder, spare wheel mount and you end up in uncertain territory. As said a formal doc from VW would be helpful. At the moment I err on the side of caution in the UK. It’s clear cut in Europe.

Yes all seems a little ambiguous. Think I will stick either way the 3.5t, we not having heavy options other than the awning, most electronic stuff, LEDs, heated seats etc. In the configuration it adds 36kg for this so hopefully it will be OK.