DSG or Manual?

[larrylamb]

Don't know about anybody else but I think the even the OP must be tiring of this thread.
It's similar to a City / United argument.

 

[Ocean Spirit]

Don't know about anybody else but I think the even the OP must be tiring of this thread.
It's similar to a City / United argument.

Well I certainly have re-enforcement of what I suspected. Sure these threads can run and run but the idea was to canvas a broad section of the community.
In a nutshell based on this thread,
1) The majority of the community prefer DSG.
2) For some there is no going back while for others the margins of beneft and enjoyment are a lot smaller.
3) The manual is a decent drive in it's own right.
4) The extra expense is rarely turned down in favour of spending the budget on other options.
5) We fear an older DSG incase they play up beyond warranty more than we do for a manual box because there is more to go wrong and its likely to be an expensive fix.
6) There are benefits with the DSG when swivelling the front chairs.
7) Some owners have mentioned that they would have preferred a DSG if it was in budget over their manual but I don't remember reading that anyone would choose the manual having had the DSG.

Thanks to everyone for your contributions. I have read them all as valuable input.

 

[larrylamb]

just one point to add re other threads on DSG,
8) Some DSG owners report difficulty in reversing uphill or onto ramps. Also lack of traction/wheelspin on greasy/wet grass.

 

[Adamvanman]

just one point to add re other threads on DSG,
8) Some DSG owners report difficulty in reversing uphill or onto ramps. Also lack of traction/wheelspin on greasy/wet grass.

Never had that problem, in fact being on level blocks in a DSG is advantage due to the handbrake issue as mentioned above.

 

[Tom Downie]

The reason for my question is this...
My car is an automatic, it's my 1st one but it's been so nice to drive I vowed I'd never return to a manual. Then I hired a T6 for a week and that was DSG. Another good experience.

Prior to these 2 events I would probably have sworn by a manual box for driving input that I have since learned I can do with out.
So ideally, I'm looking for a used Cali with DSG but on a new one its a hefty mark up. Whilst I'm sure that the older the used van for sale, the less mark up for DSG there will be, I want to go as new as possible.
It's another decision to make that will effect long term enjoyment.
Anybody owned both ?

DSG without a doubt. Combined with the adaptive cruise control it brings back a lot of pleasure to driving.

 

[RichardH]

The reason for my question is this...
My car is an automatic, it's my 1st one but it's been so nice to drive I vowed I'd never return to a manual. Then I hired a T6 for a week and that was DSG. Another good experience.

Prior to these 2 events I would probably have sworn by a manual box for driving input that I have since learned I can do with out.
So ideally, I'm looking for a used Cali with DSG but on a new one its a hefty mark up. Whilst I'm sure that the older the used van for sale, the less mark up for DSG there will be, I want to go as new as possible.
It's another decision to make that will effect long term enjoyment.
Anybody owned both ?

As others have said it's good that there's a choice for different preferences. My 140SE manual has now done nearly 50,000 miles since we bought it new in 2013 and we've slept more than 400 nights in it so far. Just back today from a 1,850 round trip to Les Landes. I've never regretted choosing the manual and keeping the extra money in the bank. Likewise I still love my 2008 Golf GT Sport 170 DSG. It still drives like a new new sports car at 90,000 miles. For me it's horses for courses.

 

[RichardH]

As others have said it's good that there's a choice for different preferences. My 140SE manual has now done nearly 50,000 miles since we bought it new in 2013 and we've slept more than 400 nights in it so far. Just back today from a 1,850 round trip to Les Landes. I've never regretted choosing the manual and keeping the extra money in the bank. Likewise I still love my 2008 Golf GT Sport 170 DSG. It still drives like a new new sports car at 90,000 miles. For me it's horses for courses.

Correction: our lovely Cali was new in 2014, not the previous year.

 

[Paul Roe]

I have driven Manuals' and Standard Autos and Ford Power Shifts and VW DSG
The big difference between a standard Auto (with fluid flywheel/torque converter) and a Automated Gear box is

pro: Automated Gear Box give far better fuel economy, even better than a manual.
con:automated gear box not as good in the snow!

the ford powershift I think is better than the VW DSG, mainly because the DSG i find has been programmed to be very slow on the uptake, so you stick your foot down at a junction and unless your really floor it there is a delay in the clutches engaging, The ford powershift does not have this. even in sports mode the dsg seems to be slow on the uptake.

without a doubt automated gear boxes are the future and would have one over the manual and even over normal auto due to the massive increase in fuel economy. The only neg is in the snow. with normal auto when you break the auto transmission keeps power on the wheels so the wheels never lock they just slow down. with Automated gear box they clutch disengages as you slow down so you get a bit of wheel slide at the last min as the wheels lock.

if i could put my ford powershift in my cali i would be very happy! but thats about all i would put the ford sat nav and radio is total junk !

actually would prob transfer the electric hand brake over from the ford as well, no more hand brake leave in the way of swiveling drivers seat would be great, not sure why VW are dragging their feet on that one !

One other slight niggle about the DSG is that it is the left hand drive selector that they have just re-positioned so the position markers (P,N,D,S etc) are hidden from the right hand driver by the actual gear stick.
but unlike the ford it does tell what gear you have selected on the dashboard

 

[Borris]

Just spent another difficult journey returning home from the Cali Club meet at Stratford. M25 was stop start for mile after mile as usual. We have just sold our SE with dsg and now have a manual Beach. Whilst a being great gearbox our next Cali will be a dsg again.

 

[crosschops]

+1 Makes a huge difference. Much more relaxing. Genuinely effortless. Had a manual T5 conversion before - there is no comparison.


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[Meoncoast]

Being a fairly large box of metal letting the DSG do the gear work allows me more cognitive brain function to worry about gaps to get through, other road users and lane directions. I was not convinced when giving up a manual gear box about DSG but as I have posted before it was at the top of the list when getting our second van.

 

[CALI FATE]

While my manual 150 Beach is off the road - the garage have loaned me a 200hp DSG 4motion Transporter Combi van - we have just returned from a 2000 mile round trip to Costa Brava in the van and can give a bit of a comparison.

Firstly, i was unable to get more than around 30 mpg driving sensibly and CC on 70mph. We did have bikes on the rack, but my van would have done more like 38. Without the bikes on, my van averages close to 40, and will return 45 on a steady run. So it is very juicy on the juice.

The DSG is a bit too slow making pulling out and slow parking manoeuvres a more tricky and jerky than the manual. Sure enough, it makes life a little more easier in traffic, but i was not impressed enough to want the change or regret the manual.

Because it wasnt my van i didnt get the chance to try out the 4motion in anger, and no doubt it would have got me into a few more covert camping spots had we taken the opportunity - but as for normal driving, i didnt notice the more surefooted feeling others have mentioned. I would like it on mine though, but they dont offer it on the 150 manual.

 

[zerofour]

While my manual 150 Beach is off the road - the garage have loaned me a 200hp DSG 4motion Transporter Combi van - we have just returned from a 2000 mile round trip to Costa Brava in the van and can give a bit of a comparison.

Firstly, i was unable to get more than around 30 mpg driving sensibly and CC on 70mph. We did have bikes on the rack, but my van would have done more like 38. Without the bikes on, my van averages close to 40, and will return 45 on a steady run. So it is very juicy on the juice.

The DSG is a bit too slow making pulling out and slow parking manoeuvres a more tricky and jerky than the manual. Sure enough, it makes life a little more easier in traffic, but i was not impressed enough to want the change or regret the manual.

Because it wasnt my van i didnt get the chance to try out the 4motion in anger, and no doubt it would have got me into a few more covert camping spots had we taken the opportunity - but as for normal driving, i didnt notice the more surefooted feeling others have mentioned. I would like it on mine though, but they dont offer it on the 150 manual.

I think the more you drive the DSG, the more you appreciate it. We've covered 3k miles in ours and never having driven or owned a DSG before I'm still learning how to get the best out of it. That said it's easy to drive but I find things such as getting on to our stepped leveling blocks tricky – I over shot them once! It's the lack of control and feel compared to a manual that I'm struggling to get used to.

 

[Amarillo]

I think the more you drive the DSG, the more you appreciate it. We've covered 3k miles in ours and never having driven or owned a DSG before I'm still learning how to get the best out of it. That said it's easy to drive but I find things such as getting on to our stepped leveling blocks tricky – I over shot them once! It's the lack of control and feel compared to a manual that I'm struggling to get used to.

I drove into a 2m height restricted multi-storey car park in Southampton today. I found it very difficult to control my cautious speed onto and off the ramps with the DSG.

On another matter, my wife reckoned I had 5-10cm clear of the solar panels as I passed under the hanging height warning signs.


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[WelshGas]

I drove into a 2m height restricted multi-storey car park in Southampton today. I found it very difficult to control my cautious speed onto and off the ramps with the DSG.

On another matter, my wife reckoned I had 5-10cm clear of the solar panels as I passed under the hanging height warning signs.


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Maybe they have altered the programming for the DSG on the T6 as I don't have any control problems on my T5. I just let the anti-stall take over and creep forward or backwards uphill or downhill. More people with the T6 and DSG seem to have problems.

 

[Mark13]

Maybe they have altered the programming for the DSG on the T6 as I don't have any control problems on my T5. I just let the anti-stall take over and creep forward or backwards uphill or downhill. More people with the T6 and DSG seem to have problems.

At risk of repetition from previous threads - don't think so. My T5 is just the same; DSG is brilliant for everything except slow speed manoeuvring. Particularly noticeable on a slope or rough ground, when I think it really misses a respectable clutch and somewhat more precise throttle control.

That's the only time I miss a (decent) manual though. For everything else DSG really suites the thing, and I would definitely get it again.

 

[T6 CFO]

Maybe they have altered the programming for the DSG on the T6 as I don't have any control problems on my T5. I just let the anti-stall take over and creep forward or backwards uphill or downhill. More people with the T6 and DSG seem to have problems.

Not had any issues of control yet on my T6 and had DSG before. Just about to get a very thorough testing so I will report back if I do.


Mike

 

[Iron Van]

FOR ME, I love driving. Engine breaking and being in the right gear at the right time are things I enjoy, so my holiday starts when I leave the house and I actually enjoy getting there as much as I do being there.

My last Cali was DSG and I kept that for a year. It was brilliant in slow moving traffic or if SHMBO was driving, but I found it scary a couple of times when pulling onto a junction or when doing slow speed manoeuvres.

 

[Victor]

No problems with mine at slow speed either and I have a T6, I can only assume you have a fault or you are not used to the way the DSG operates. It's the same as people complaining about a delay when pulling away, I don't have this problem either, maybe the faults are connected?

I love my DSG and would not change it for a manual for all the tea in China.

 

[GrannyJen]

I've been on road, off road, over rocks, climbed uphill, nearly fell off a cliff downhill, ploughed through snow, on ice and through water with Albert and always found the gearbox to be totally responsive to whatever my needs of the time have been.

Like others I had a bit of a learning curve with possible lag when entering roundabouts or joining another road from standstill but it was a very short learning curve and now something that I just anticipate and adjust for.

 

[Amarillo]

No problems with mine at slow speed either and I have a T6, I can only assume you have a fault or you are not used to the way the DSG operates.

Maybe - but I too have no problems with normal low speed operation. Yesterday there was a somewhat toxic combination:
1 low clearance (low speed)
2 sharp bends
3 steep ramps
My driving was, at best, jerky.

If I was in a manual I'd have probably stayed in first gear on the ramps, and not attempted a low speed change to second. Had I been more confident with the height I'd have driven a little faster and the DSG may have stayed in second.

Other times when I've experienced this jerkiness from the van is when fully loaded and reversing over rough ground.



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[Digger]

Conclusion - Both DSG and Manual have their followers. Both are excellent and down to personal choice. Therefore all that matters is you have a California and use it. Easy decision (not)

 

[Velma's Dad]

Interesting posts on this thread about 'jerky' DSG at take-off or in low speed manoeuvring. I just googled this and it looks like it's been a recurring complaint for years with VW Group's DSGs although unclear if it's due to a fault or it's just a 'feature'.

As I mentioned in an earlier it was certainly an irritation in the DSG-equipped Seat I rented last week. I had to have it in Sport mode the whole time to lessen the take-off lag, and it was a bit of a pain to parallel-park in tight spaces on slopes due to the lack of precise control.

If I was changing van and decided I really wanted an auto-type transmission, I think I'd still be happy enough generally with the VW DSG, but I don't have to drive the van every day: if I had to do a lot of city driving with it it might be another matter.

I realise lots of (most?) people experience no problems with their DSG Calis, but at least a minority seem to be saying they have some issues, even if only minor ones.

 

[Kmann]

Interesting posts on this thread about 'jerky' DSG at take-off or in low speed manoeuvring. I just googled this and it looks like it's been a recurring complaint for years with VW Group's DSGs although unclear if it's due to a fault or it's just a 'feature'.

As I mentioned in an earlier it was certainly an irritation in the DSG-equipped Seat I rented last week. I had to have it in Sport mode the whole time to lessen the take-off lag, and it was a bit of a pain to parallel-park in tight spaces on slopes due to the lack of precise control.

If I was changing van and decided I really wanted an auto-type transmission, I think I'd still be happy enough generally with the VW DSG, but I don't have to drive the van every day: if I had to do a lot of city driving with it it might be another matter.

I realise lots of (most?) people experience no problems with their DSG Calis, but at least a minority seem to be saying they have some issues, even if only minor ones.

This is exactly my point. As a daily driver and a lot in the city as well, the lack/delay with the DSG is just no go for me. It is annoying at the lights, a real challenge when you need control in narrow spaces like parking, and It gives trouble starting on slippery ground. It is such a pity because there is no doubt that cruising DSG with ACC is a dream ride … but even if I had another car for my daily drives, I would be in doubt if the DSG would please me enough to get it. Honestly, I never think about shifting manually - I have done it so much - and a little workout is not bad ;-)

 

[Jay20cali]

Conclusion - Both DSG and Manual have their followers. Both are excellent and down to personal choice. Therefore all that matters is you have a California and use it. Easy decision (not)

Great post just what I was thinking too digger too man!!!