EU Referendum - 23rd June - How will you vote?

EU Referendum

  • Stay in the EU

    Votes: 90 51.4%

  • Leave the EU

    Votes: 85 48.6%
  • Total voters
    175
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
SqueakyWheel said:
... because, as it says in the video's description:

The BBC's Europe correspondent Damian Grammaticas explains the different institutions within the EU, how they work and what they control.​



That would be, for example here:

Bailout talks make 'progress'
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36114491​



Schengen: Controversial EU free movement deal explained
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-13194723​



What could Turkey-EU deal mean for countries involved?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35840813​



EU lost nearly 1bn euros from budget
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32977814​

and I could go on, but the point being that everything you mention has been written about in the past few months by the BBC. A simple search will find them. To claim that the BBC is biased because this one video attempts to explain the institutions of the EU and doesn't mention the multitude of other newsworthy EU subjects in the same 2.5 minute video doesn't really stand up.
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I think the point is that one link to a BBC video was put up. Not all these others. That video on its own in the context of this debate is therefore misleading and certainly a soft sell. I did put up another link to try to get some opinions. The one in relation to the size of the civil service and the what I believe to be misleading figures in the BBC one. This drew no comment on here and I suspect was ignored as it was not supplying the remain group with affirmative bias.
I also note there was no comment of any worth in relation to flood51 video, the Brexit Video. My point is that anyone considering an out vote is being asked to put up or shut up and when they do there is no debate or even any acknowledgement that the issue raised has been looked at.
I also take the view that anyone with out views is being put into a box labelled UKIP and has immigration issues. I am not in that camp and I am having considered the issue firmly OUT and out of this thread. Very disappointed.
 
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SqueakyWheel said:
... because, as it says in the video's description:

The BBC's Europe correspondent Damian Grammaticas explains the different institutions within the EU, how they work and what they control.​



That would be, for example here:

Bailout talks make 'progress'
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36114491​



Schengen: Controversial EU free movement deal explained
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-13194723​



What could Turkey-EU deal mean for countries involved?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35840813​



EU lost nearly 1bn euros from budget
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32977814​

and I could go on, but the point being that everything you mention has been written about in the past few months by the BBC. A simple search will find them. To claim that the BBC is biased because this one video attempts to explain the institutions of the EU and doesn't mention the multitude of other newsworthy EU subjects in the same 2.5 minute video doesn't really stand up.
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No links in the video or article - so as I said - a biased presentation. You think what you want as I am sure the Government is happy with your views and the way the BBC is presenting them.
I'll just state my view as I see it.
 
T6 CFO said:
This drew no comment on here and I suspect was ignored as it was not supplying the remain group with affirmative bias.
Click to expand...

I ignored it because the article you linked to compared the number of EU civil servants, given in an EU pamphlet, with an estimate of the number of EU employees, this included soldiers seconded to EU command from national armies. Apples and oranges.

I felt this was so obvious that it didn't require comment.
 
Apologies I didn't spot it. I did take a look at the Moneywise article but then switched off a little as it didn't really express any views that haven't already been said.

From my point of view it wouldn't really make a difference.

I try and work on a logical outcome, like a game of chess, (sorry just the characteristics of my job).and I cant see any short term positives from an out vote. On longer terms, 15 years plus, its a maybe but then it may be too late and the damage done.
 
Crispin Family said:
I ignored it because the article you linked to compared the number of EU civil servants, given in an EU pamphlet, with an estimate of the number of EU employees, this included soldiers seconded to EU command from national armies. Apples and oranges.

I felt this was so obvious that it didn't require comment.
Click to expand...

Your last paragraph sums it up. Dismissive and I consider rude.

You are grossly misrepresenting the document which was posted as an example on how the BBC clip was inaccurate or at the least misleading.

The point of my posts has been to widen the debate and question some of the "facts" we are being given by both camps. If it fits with your stance you accept it as gospel and dismiss everything and everyone that may question it or put an opposing view. Very helpful, not!

It was posted along with everything else I have posted as an object for open discussion. You view everything which opposes your standpoint as a challenge and therefore there is no point in me continuing this discussion.

I do need to thank you however as your closed attitude inspired me to get off the fence, question things and arrive at a decision. Not surprisingly it is the opposite to yours.
 
Clearly members are polarised on this subject. I really worry about the lack of factual information. It is just turning into a shouting match by both sides. I think people have taken sides already. I've been accused of being a little englander, highly offensive, by people that have not even had the time to read my previous posts. This subject is important to me because it is all about democracy. You may think this is not important, or that you don't live in a democracy at the moment so what ,but I just think it matters. Don't care if you disagree. I also really believe that by 2018 everyone will be much better off financially and any drop now just translates into a buying opportunity. For 2016. Down £100k 2016. Up £500k 2018
 
Crispin Family said:
I ignored it because the article you linked to compared the number of EU civil servants, given in an EU pamphlet, with an estimate of the number of EU employees, this included soldiers seconded to EU command from national armies. Apples and oranges.

I felt this was so obvious that it didn't require comment.
Click to expand...
T6 CFO said:
Your last paragraph sums it up. Dismissive and I consider rude.
.
Click to expand...
Because he didn't reply to you? No one is under obligation to participate or continue to do so.

T6 CFO said:
The point of my posts has been to widen the debate and question some of the "facts" we are being given by both camps. If it fits with your stance you accept it as gospel and dismiss everything and everyone that may question it or put an opposing view. Very helpful, not!

It was posted along with everything else I have posted as an object for open discussion. You view everything which opposes your standpoint as a challenge and therefore there is no point in me continuing this discussion.
Click to expand...
Sorry that no one replied to your contribution to the debate but it's your choice to feel slighted or dismissed, and to arrive at any conclusions you wish as to how or why this is. Personally I'm travelling on business and don't have time to watch a video. But If that is the determining factor as to your choice to vote to leave then that's a bit odd imo.
 
Fred. If you haven't got time to view the video or read things properly then I shouldn't bother trying to contribute at all. You clearly don't understand the first principles of debate or anything I have been trying to state. I fear it's not possible on a bulletin board.

Nb: Your time would have probably have been better spent watching the video and constructing a critique of it rather than a put down.






Mike
 
Sorry not travelling on business just lecturing.

There seems to be a certain arrogance from some contributors to this debate but from my perspective it is about Democracy as a sovereign nation. I want a common trading agreement but nothing more as it is my belief that the EU has become too large and incorporates countries which are incompatible.

I have my views and others have theirs. That is fine but please do not show arrogance to any contributor.Everyone has a right to free speech and whether you agree or disagree at least be civil.
Remember when it is all over bridges will have to be built (as happened in the Scottish thing :).
 
Well here is my offering for what its worth!
When it actually comes down to deciding which box to place your cross in, all you will have to go on is your own pure gut instinct. However ignorant or well informed you are and however strong your convictions are, that is what it will come down to. Probably the single most important political decision that any of us will ever be asked to make will be decided purely on a hunch. Unless you have a crystal ball you are kidding yourself if you think you know any better. There isn't a single individual or organisation that can possibly know what the future consequences of Remain or Brexit will be.
Accordingly, IMO all the predictions being thrown at us to sway our vote one way or the other are not worth a jot. Most of the originators probably have a vested interest in proffering their particular opinion. Which ever way the vote goes we are all stepping into the unknown.
For me at least it all comes down to whether you are happy for GB to be irrevocably absorbed into project EU or whether you would prefer GB to retain some control over its own destiny.
 
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T6 CFO said:
Your last paragraph sums it up. Dismissive and I consider rude.
Click to expand...

Not at all. I read the article and decided that the argument put forward was a straw man. It is no ruder than me picking up the Daily Express while waiting to have my hair cut, reading an article explaining how David Cameron knew of a plot to murder Princess Diana, and deciding that the article explains nothing of the sort without expressing this view to my barber who had kindly provided the newspaper.
 
T6 CFO said:
Fred. If you haven't got time to view the video or read things properly then I shouldn't bother trying to contribute at all. You clearly don't understand the first principles of debate or anything I have been trying to state. I fear it's not possible on a bulletin board.

Nb: Your time would have probably have been better spent watching the video and constructing a critique of it rather than a put down.

Mike
Click to expand...
I don't agree Mike, you should contribute, regardless of whether I or anyone else has time or inclination to watch the video. You've decided (erroneously) that some people are dismissing you and your facts which then makes you want to vote leave. It's an hour and eleven minutes long and is unashamedly partisan. But if you want put forward any pro exit facts (that we have allegedly dismissed) I'm all ears :)
 
fred said:
I don't agree Mike, you should contribute, regardless of whether I or anyone else has time or inclination to watch the video. You've decided (erroneously) that some people are dismissing you and your facts which then makes you want to vote leave. It's an hour and eleven minutes long and is unashamedly partisan. But if you want put forward any pro exit facts (that we have allegedly dismissed) I'm all ears :)
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Fred you still don't get it and you are coming to all the wrong conclusions.
Firstly there is no point contributing if it is not a debate or an objective look at the options. I frankly don't care which way anyone votes and only look for honest consideration of those involved. If that isn't there or the attitude is defensive I am going to learn nothing from them. I post links or material in order to get an opinion on them. They are not necessarily what I believe. Of course the video was partisan it was called Brexit for goodness sake. That was the point.
 
Crispin Family said:
Not at all. I read the article and decided that the argument put forward was a straw man. It is no ruder than me picking up the Daily Express while waiting to have my hair cut, reading an article explaining how David Cameron knew of a plot to murder Princess Diana, and deciding that the article explains nothing of the sort without expressing this view to my barber who had kindly provided the newspaper.
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So let me get this right then.
You put something up and others have the temerity to question them.
You shoot them down or pigeon hole them.
Others put things up which you read but don't comment on because it's so ridiculous and we have a debate do we.

I've made up my mind and shall leave you and Fred to it.
 
The good thing is that everyone seems to really care and are taking an interest regardless of which way they are biased.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
 
Coming from a farming family we will be voting to stay in the EU as we can't run the risk of losing our subsidies even though they do say this will not change as the UK goverment will continue to pay it but we cant trust them! Also movement of stock in the EU is so easy for us, if we were out of the EU exports would become a nightmare.
 
T6 CFO said:
You put something up and others have the temerity to question them.
You shoot them down or pigeon hole them.
Click to expand...

It is not a matter of "temerity" so someone to question what I say,

Neither is it a matter of "temerity" for me to decide whether or not I respond.

For whatever reason, you are twisting this discussion from a one on the pros and cons of the EU, into a meta discussion. I will not allow myself to be drawn further along that path.
 
Crispin Family said:
It is not a matter of "temerity" so someone to question what I say,

Neither is it a matter of "temerity" for me to decide whether or not I respond.

For whatever reason, you are twisting this discussion from a one on the pros and cons of the EU, into a meta discussion. I will not allow myself to be drawn further along that path.
Click to expand...
There hasn't been any discussion on the pros and cons so I agree. Quite pointless
 
Been following this thread with interest in case it might help me in making my decision. It seems to me that many of the posts could have been written by Messrs Johnson or Cameron! :headbang
Clearly, there are some very strong opinions on this matter which I doubt will be changed by the continued 'debate'. From my perspective, nobody knows for sure what the absolute consequences of Brexit or Remain will be, but personally I am keen to stay part of the EU, although I will accept that the EU we have at present is not perfect. The question for me therefore is whether we are better to stay, and remain part of the discussions that will hopefully see imperfections resolved over time, or leave altogether, in which case we would simply have no further say in the matter.
There, that's my two penneth anyway. I'll continue to watch with interest. :)
 
Crispin Family said:
Yes there has:
Click to expand...
I believe it's time to draw a line under our squabble as even I am finding it tedious never mind the others

It is also a distraction from the important debate which others are trying to have.

I accept there are three points of view on this thread, the in the out and the undecided. I was an undecided and became frustrated by the way it was being conducted. I let my feelings show but in my defence I am passionate and think the topic is very important. If you look at my early posts you will see this is the case. I was looking for answers. I have found them elsewhere and am now decided. Let's let others continue the debate.


Mike
 
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