EU Referendum - 23rd June - How will you vote?

[motacyclist]

If we leave then we will have a new political movement to get us back in again; like UKIP in reverse. Politicians will have to appease those who want to rejoin and eventually will have to promise a referendum. And so on, ad infinitum; wind the clock forward 100 years and it will still be going on, one way or the other!

 

[Amarillo]

UKIP in reverse.

PIKU (Pick EU) - Very appropriate.

 

[pjm-84]

Nice bike.

 

[DM]

I fear there's a significant age divide in attitudes towards the EU. I know very few people under 30 who support leaving and a large number of people over 45 who think differently and whilst 'people i know' is hardly scientific it seems to be reflected in media coverage and polling.

I think this observation is vital. I have 3 kids aged 17 to 22. None of them are particularly politically motivated but all three have engaged on this issue and all three are solidly of the opinion that we should remain - they can't understand why we are even having the debate. They have been brought up in a world much more tolerant of minorities and those who are different than the one I was raised in. They all feel European and strongly believe in community. Who are we to tell them what the UK (if there still is one) they will inherit should look like. My 17 year old is incensed that she will miss the vote by 4 weeks. I know the line on voting age has to be drawn somewhere but even if we keep it at 18 for general elections it should have been 16 for the referendum. 16 and 17 year olds do get the importance of this.

I didn't intend to post in this thread and then only intended to put a few words. I seem to feel more strongly about it than I'd realised. So my final thought - this really matters. Think hard and use your vote. And please think about your children's and grandchildren's views when you make your choice.

 

[Digger]

I think this observation is vital. I have 3 kids aged 17 to 22. None of them are particularly politically motivated but all three have engaged on this issue and all three are solidly of the opinion that we should remain - they can't understand why we are even having the debate. They have been brought up in a world much more tolerant of minorities and those who are different than the one I was raised in. They all feel European and strongly believe in community. Who are we to tell them what the UK (if there still is one) they will inherit should look like. My 17 year old is incensed that she will miss the vote by 4 weeks. I know the line on voting age has to be drawn somewhere but even if we keep it at 18 for general elections it should have been 16 for the referendum. 16 and 17 year olds do get the importance of this.

I didn't intend to post in this thread and then only intended to put a few words. I seem to feel more strongly about it than I'd realised. So my final thought - this really matters. Think hard and use your vote. And please think about your children's and grandchildren's views when you make your choice.

We British are probably the most tolerant and accepting people on earth. The EU issue is not about tolerance and community acceptance. It is about control by unelected bodies and interference in how we govern our own countries.
Do not let emotion rule how you decide what the referendum means. When you talk about being informed regretfully it may be on a surface level with no idea of the workings and mechanism of the EU and EC. My work involves intensive research and analysis (hence Digger) so I have to be informed. This is a chance to force the political and unelected leaders to re think the path forward. We need a partnership of countries and the EU is best placed but it has to reform. Please research and do so as though you were back at Uni. Dig deep and discover why so many intelligent individuals who relish freedom are demanding reform. That would make the EU totally welcome.
On that I close.

 

[MattBW]

I am on the side of remain (but could be swayed to leave with some solid facts). I do think the EU needs reform. Its great for workers rights and human rights in general, but is too resistant to reform. Out may be the only way to get them to realise this, by then it will be too late.

The reality is we import far more from Europe than we export to it. Much of this is the food we eat. We spend more than we earn when it comes to the EU balance sheet. Our dealings with non EU countries is reportedly generally in the opposite direction surprisingly. I have seem the numbers and on face value its being used by the leave complain to demonstrate that Europe takes more than it gives, its a twisting of the facts I believe. I can't see us wanting to import highly processed american food, with horrendous animal welfare or highly dubious chinese food of unknown origins.

However that food requirement isn't going to go away if we leave but its likely to suddenly cost more. We will still need our spanish tomatoes etc etc. Increased borders and less freedom of movement = higher security costs, longer waits at borders, more taxes on trades. I can't help feeling that all it would do is push the cost of our essentials up and make us less competitive with our exports into Europe.

I am also strongly against TTIP which for me should never have got as far as it has. If the politicians were looking after the people of the EU and it was a genuine thing to make things better then it would not have had to be hidden in secrecy to get progress.

So on the fence but leaning over the remain side.

 

[GrannyJen]

As with Matt, on the fence,

However I must say that the "leave" campaign is driving me more and more into staying. The histrionic rejection of everything they disagree with as "scare tactics" whilst offering no reasonable arguments or facts themselves is truly depressing and disappointing.

I had hoped that an intellectual Michael Gove and an energetic Boris Johnson may offer something but sadly it is proving to be bland gove, buffoon Boris and Bitter IDS.

 

[DM]

The EU issue is not about tolerance and community acceptance.

I agree wholeheartedly with you. But unfortunately the rhetoric of the referendum debate seems to be heading in this direction.

 

[WelshGas]

So we won't have any Trade Agreementsif we leave. So what. Remember they work both ways.
We have No Trade Deals with the USA, but Apple, Microsoft don't do so bad. We will have no trade deal with the failing EU if we leave and do you really think that VW, BMW Renault and Citroen are going to cut off their noses to spite their face by not selling or putting up the prices of their products.
All a Trade Deal is is an agreement between the parties regarding Duty Levels, taxation and manufacturing standards etc.
No one knows exactly what will happen if we leave or if we stay but on the balance of probability the EU will fail in the not too distant future whether we stay or not and I for one do not wish this country to be dragged through the mill because of a failing Organization run by an unelected and unaccountable group of hasbeens
Some people have quoted the " younger generation ". I am just very glad this generation, the vast majority of which are very risk adverse, was not around in 1939, because if they were then I don't think we would be now.

My personal opinion.

 

[adinalee111]

I will also be voting to stay in, I don't want to risk the pound becoming parity with the Euro! Also things like the pet passport, European car insurance.

Voting OUT could be bad news for Cali owners, expecially ones like myself who travel a lot in Europe with our pooches!

 

[Digger]

What does one say!

 

[GrannyJen]

What does one say!

woof?

 

[greenfintry]

Brexit would rebalance the economy, financial services would mostly head to Frankfurt, so what's left will be on a par with manufacturing! We will all be in it together then: dirt poor and isolated. Remember the high point of BL when Britain was more isolated: the allegro

 

[Digger]

Growl
Grrrr

 

[motacyclist]

Remember the high point of BL when Britain was more isolated: the allegro

Ah, that's when we had Vroom! Lots and lots of it!

Here's the advert!

 

[GrannyJen]

Ah, that's when we had Vroom! Lots and lots of it!

Here's the advert!

Then we had the modern era... the three M's... Metro, Maestro and Montego..... they at least had round steering wheels

 

[calimera]

Ah, that's when we had Vroom! Lots and lots of it!

Here's the advert!

Rats! Our new Cali has just arrived and now I'm thinking "should have gone for an Allegro" Vroom vroom
Simon

 

[GrannyJen]

Rats! Our new Cali has just arrived and now I'm thinking "should have gone for an Allegro" Vroom vroom
Simon

I have fond memories of my Allegro...

Possibly when the bonnet flew open and plastered itself to the windscreen whilst I was on the M6 was the most exciting,

There again the brake servo failing as I left the M1 at Watford was a bit white knuckle....

The drivers door refusing to close was inconvenient .....

 

[motacyclist]

I have fond memories of my Allegro...

Possibly when the bonnet flew open and plastered itself to the windscreen whilst I was on the M6 was the most exciting,

There again the brake servo failing as I left the M1 at Watford was a bit white knuckle....

The drivers door refusing to close was inconvenient .....

Why are you complaining, you got a good one! Good job you didn't get a Friday car!

See, if we weren't in the EU we'd still be driving round in this rubbish (like East Germany in their Trabants)

(Someone will defend Trabants now )

 

[calimera]

I have fond memories of my Allegro...

Possibly when the bonnet flew open and plastered itself to the windscreen whilst I was on the M6 was the most exciting,

There again the brake servo failing as I left the M1 at Watford was a bit white knuckle....

The drivers door refusing to close was inconvenient .....

There's nothing like a bit of character, that's what's missing in these new fangled things

 

[motacyclist]

There's nothing like a bit of character, that's what's missing in these new fangled things

Got it, now we know why VW made the Cali roofs corrode

 

[Amarillo]

There again the brake servo failing as I left the M1 at Watford was a bit white knuckle....

I had a brake servo go in my Peugeot 309 on the M5 just as I was approaching, at speed, a stationary traffic queue due to roadworks. Wow! That was an exciting moment.

 

[T6 CFO]

Deleted as I had nothing polite to say about the Allegro and when I was writing what I did have to say hit the send by mistake.

 

[WelshGas]

I will also be voting to stay in, I don't want to risk the pound becoming parity with the Euro! Also things like the pet passport, European car insurance.

Voting OUT could be bad news for Cali owners, expecially ones like myself who travel a lot in Europe with our pooches!

Do you really think that the EU would say you are not allowed to come to our Countries and spend money here?
The Pet Passport is run and regulated by the UK. The EU couldn't care less.
Anyway, if what you believe came true, it wouldn't affect Cali owners as there wouldn't be any. VW wouldn't sell any to UK customers, would they?

 

[Amarillo]

The Pet Passport is run and regulated by the UK. The EU couldn't care less.

The Pet Passport is a UK initiative, but it is wrong to say that the EU "couldn't care less". Documented proof of vaccination against rabies is a requirement for dogs, cats and ferrets to travel across EU borders as a pet.
http://ec.europa.eu/food/animals/pet-movement/index_en.htm