EU Referendum - 23rd June - How will you vote?

[AndyFromTheBrac]

For me, I think in is certainly better than out. It's not perfect as many have said, but the only way to effect change is to belong and take part. What would the EU become if we aren't in it?

Whether we are in or out, in time, may make little difference to the man in the street. However the potential vacuum which would be left in the short-term, by us departing would be horrific for some. A lot of jobs would undoubtably go - with new ones coming along in time, but what for the jeopardy this causes families for years?. As for people living off investments and pensions they would see a significant drop in its value (which may continue if the financial centre decides to decamp to Frankfurt). Fine if you can ride it out, but again what of those that are affected? It would make the financial crash of 2008 seem like Tescos running out of weetabix.

For me, it's simply not worth the risk. Too much at stake, with too little to gain.


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[hirsty]

"We British are probably the most tolerant and accepting people on earth. The EU issue is not about tolerance and community acceptance. It is about control by unelected bodies and interference in how we govern our own countries."

We British like to say that we are ... Sadly it's not true, likely never was & much unpleasantness will be raised before 23 June - particularly through the papers owned by a handful of non-dom white male millionaires with their own agendas.

I agree with John Majors speech yesterday that we risk raising divisive themes during this period that will have negative long term consequences for us all.

The heyday of independent nation states (of our limited size) is behind us & it's now all about cooperation, common interests & joint approaches to finance, trade, safety & security, environment, justice ...

 

[Digger]

Ich verzweifle

 

[phillme]

in all my years of a voting age the government of the day never does anything for the good of the people only what's good for them ... so whatever they say i can be sure it's the wrong thing for us plebs .... if being in Europe is so good for our economy why haven't we got the euro ? and why can't i buy a 4 motion beach

 

[Flood51]

It is a very confusing time and not at all easy for a voter to make up his/her mind. If I am thinking of my Grandchildren's prosperity I would vote out. The EU is not nimble and we need to be in todays world, nimble beats strength every time. If I think of my SIPP fund it would probably cost me ++£100,000 in the short term before it recovered in a couple of years, but I wanted to cash it in next year. In my mind its not if we leave the EU its when. We are not in the Euro, we're not in Schengen, the Euro Zone has to form a political and monetary union to survive which requires treaty change and will trigger another referendum. The fear arguments remind me a bit of the millennium bug when cash machines would freeze, washing machines wouldn't work, cars wouldn't start and planes and satellites would fall out of the sky one minute into 1st January 2000. I am pretty sure that if we vote out the 24th June will be pretty much like that day.

 

[Ambler]

I'm still undecided but swaying towards out.
I ignore all the posturing and arguing by the politicians.
If we are to be in we should be in fully, I.e, in the eurozone. If we were in tHe currency union, what a mess would afflict us. The same politicians who said we must join the euro and if we did not we would be in hell are now the same lot (John Major especially) who are now saying if we come out we will be in double hell.
In 1975 I voted to stay in. The organisatIon has changed dramatically since then.
Corruption, deceiving voters, not to mention all these new countries joining meaning agreement on anything is nigh on impossible.

 

[P6YRK]

In June 75million Turkish nationals will be able to enter Europe, 8% support ISIS, that's a lot of angry people that don't like westerners! Also 97% of turkey is in Asia, how can this ever be Europe? Maybe invite Iran, Iraq and North Korea next?

 

[Flood51]

In June 75million Turkish nationals will be able to enter Europe, 8% support ISIS, that's a lot of angry people that don't like westerners! Also 97% of turkey is in Asia, how can this ever be Europe? Maybe invite Iran, Iraq and North Korea next?

Pretty sure its tourist visas only for Turks and it only covers the Schengen area so it won't affect the UK

 

[WelshGas]

The Pet Passport is a UK initiative, but it is wrong to say that the EU "couldn't care less". Documented proof of vaccination against rabies is a requirement for dogs, cats and ferrets to travel across EU borders as a pet.
http://ec.europa.eu/food/animals/pet-movement/index_en.htm

It might be a requirement but there are no border checks in the Schengen area, and to base this decision on the ability of the continuation of a Pet Passport system in Europe is beyond my comprehension. There are more important factors to consider.

 

[Californiaman]

To most people perhaps but obviously not all. That's why there is a referendum!

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[WelshGas]

Pretty sure its tourist visas only for Turks and it only covers the Schengen area so it won't affect the UK

Yet! It will all change if we vote to stay in.

 

[SqueakyWheel]

In June 75million Turkish nationals will be able to enter Europe, 8% support ISIS, that's a lot of angry people that don't like westerners! Also 97% of turkey is in Asia, how can this ever be Europe? Maybe invite Iran, Iraq and North Korea next?

75 million Turkish nationals can already enter Europe if they have a valid passport, travel insurance, pay €60 and wait up to 15 days for the visa to be issued. "Visa Free" just means that they'll be able to travel into the Schengen Area countries and get their passport checked/stamped on arrival at the immigration desks. Just the same as travellers from, Chile, Guatemala and the United Arab Emirates ( for example ). They'll still only be able to stay 90 days as a tourist and have no right to work. Just as now, but without the 15 day wait and €60 fee.

The UK isn't in Schengen and, if Cameron is to be believed, won't have to be in the future so this has no effect on UK immigration.

 

[Digger]

Wie bevor Ich verzwiefle.
Regretfully the public are totally unaware of the issues and consequences of both in and out campaigns. This is due in no small part to complacency and the British ' let others do the decision making' attitude.
The EU / EC direction with enlargement and incompatible countries will result in years of trouble and conflict. The German people know this already and if you speak with them you will be really concerned.
To bring in a throw away argument such a pets passports - think on increasing immigration and congestion when the EU brings in nationwide road tolls and probably controls on driving. (Research at your peril as you may not like what you find)
It has to be cut down to size and reformed or it will fail.

 

[DavidS]

Arguments for leaving are purely speculative, and no-one has the first idea of what will actually happen.

We all know what happens when there is no clear 'exit strategy' and I have seen nothing that even begins to address this.

We do, however, know where we stand; we may not like it, but the risk of leaping into the unknown led by politicians is a massive gamble.

Remain.

 

[pjm-84]

Was it the proposal from Ms Violeta Bulc ?

(Ms Bulc, a former minister in Slovenia’s centre-left government)

 

[Digger]

Was it the proposal from Ms Violeta Bulc ?

(Ms Bulc, a former minister in Slovenia’s centre-left government)

Negative. She is just a transport commissioner and the transport plans are long standing and go into much detail. Also the Galileo satellite has implications for monitoring movement. You have to dig deep and be involved in researching the workings and planning by the EC. The European Commission and its civil servants are the main worry.

As for the unknown consequences to leaving - there would be much muttering but little else. Business is business and it is a big world.
I would stay but not as the EU stands as it threatens peace with Putin and allies, and to be frank, is led by some corrupt and self serving individuals.

 

[DavidofHook]

Pretty sure its tourist visas only for Turks and it only covers the Schengen area so it won't affect the UK

Until the Human Rights people get their hands on it, then they will be here don't worry.

 

[DavidofHook]

You can see what the EU is doing.
Without control of your currency you have no country. Without control of your borders, or who can enter your country, you have no country, Without being able to vote out those who make your laws you have no country. It is a soft tyranny.

Vote out on 23 June and you get your country back.

Success will follow as sure as day follows night.

 

[fred]

75 million Turkish nationals can already enter Europe if they have a valid passport, travel insurance, pay €60 and wait up to 15 days for the visa to be issued. "Visa Free" just means that they'll be able to travel into the Schengen Area countries and get their passport checked/stamped on arrival at the immigration desks. Just the same as travellers from, Chile, Guatemala and the United Arab Emirates ( for example ). They'll still only be able to stay 90 days as a tourist and have no right to work. Just as now, but without the 15 day wait and €60 fee.

The UK isn't in Schengen and, if Cameron is to be believed, won't have to be in the future so this has no effect on UK immigration.

Exactly this. The referendum vote is not a vote for / against immigration, though it saddens me to see how many people here fail to understand the importance of immigration to the economic welfare of the average British person. EU migrants pay £20bn more in taxes than they receive:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0.html

 

[Kirk]

Wow, what a response, don't forget to complete the poll at the top.

 

[fred]

The fear arguments remind me a bit of the millennium bug when cash machines would freeze, washing machines wouldn't work, cars wouldn't start and planes and satellites would fall out of the sky one minute into 1st January 2000. I am pretty sure that if we vote out the 24th June will be pretty much like that day.

I can tell you for sure (because I work in the industry) that in the event of Brexit 60%+ of the U.K. financial services industry will move to Paris, Frankfurt, NY and Dublin. All the hundreds of thousands of ancillary professional services (accounting, audit, legal, tax, consulting) will downsize massively.
London contributes 22% to the UK GDP and financial services is the biggest contributor. The UK has no contingency plan whatsoever. To say that the UK economy would collapse if we leave Europe is an understatement.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_London

 

[Digger]

Exactly this. The referendum vote is not a vote for / against immigration, though it saddens me to see how many people here fail to understand the importance of immigration to the economic welfare of the average British person. EU migrants pay £20bn more in taxes than they receive:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0.html

The referendum is not about immigration it is far more important than just that although we must have control over who is allowed in. Mass immigration has changed the country and it all depends on your viewpoint as to overcrowding and its effects. I just wish that incomers came to become British rather than trying to change our country to look like where they left. That may prove problematic in the near future.
It is about our right to democracy and control over our country and elected government.
As for the £20bn quoted figures I would question its accuracy, bearing in mind that the civil service and Government rarely know the truth if it bit them on the b*m. They do lie frequently or rather misinterpret their figures until caught.

 

[rich-s]

Its quite interesting how very different the poll is on here as opposed to another forum (disco4.com) I'm on .



Not quite sure why it should be so different.

 

[Digger]

I can tell you for sure (because I work in the industry) that in the event of Brexit 60%+ of the U.K. financial services industry will move to Paris, Frankfurt, NY and Dublin. All the hundreds of thousands of ancillary professional services (accounting, audit, legal, tax, consulting) will downsize massively.
London contributes 22% to the UK GDP and financial services is the biggest contributor. The UK has no contingency plan whatsoever. To say that the UK economy would collapse if we leave Europe is an understatement.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_London

There is no evidence of this. It is used by some to scare but in reality the global financial system does not recognise that there is a problem. The politicians and their accomplices exaggerate but several high ranking sources say the biggest danger is the stock market in London selling out to the Germans. That would never be allowed in Germany. They maintain internal power while out weak politicians sell us out.

 

[fred]

The referendum is not about immigration it is far more important than just that although we must have control over who is allowed in. Mass immigration has changed the country and it all depends on your viewpoint as to overcrowding and its effects. I just wish that incomers came to become British rather than trying to change our country to look like where they left. That may prove problematic in the near future.
It is about our right to democracy and control over our country and elected government.
As for the £20bn quoted figures I would question its accuracy, bearing in mind that the civil service and Government rarely know the truth if it bit them on the b*m. They do lie frequently or rather misinterpret their figures until caught.

I don't understand your argument. You accept that the EU referendum isn't about immigration but then go on to complain about immigrants. I'm happy to challenge your view on immigration with facts, and you seem unable to refute them with other facts, just scepticism about the government. I can't argue with your irrationality, sorry. Here are some more, independent facts for you from the Economist and UCL: http://www.economist.com/news/brita...ce-research-what-have-immigrants-ever-done-us