Goodbye Brussels, hello Burnley.

[John]

Of those who voted:
25% of 18-24 voted leave
44% of 25-49 voted leave
56% of 50-64 voted leave
61% of 65+ voted leave

Which basically shows that with age comes experience of work and life, of being responsible for a family, of raising children to adulthood and always being there for them and looking out for them and knowing what Democracy is and abiding by that standard.
The youngsters have little life experience, few have significant responsibility for others living for themselves most of the time as shown any Saturday night in most town centres.
I know who I would prefer to make decisions that affect the whole country and it ain't the "younger" generation who get upset when they don't get their own way, as shown by today's march in London to overthrow the Referendum result.
Reminds me of the Terrible Two Tantrums.

You obviously we're not at the march today in London. The people who made the effort to be there were people from all generations who are very concerned for the future. Time will tell but so far it is not looking great.
I did not see any terrible two tantrums but I did see a peaceful United demonstration by people of different ages and cultures who all care about the future of their country.

 

[WelshGas]

And what about the 2 gentlemen interviewed at the end of the BBC news report, one of whom voted to Leave and the other to Remain who were disgusted at the protesters for going against the Democratic decision of the people of the United Kingdom? They were unanimous in their condemnation!.
But of course they were over 45 so their opinions can be disregarded, can't they.

 

[Deskman]

This is a nice contribution to this kind of discussions: Ted talk from Julia Galef about why you (and you too) think you are right, even if you're wrong.

 

[T6 CFO]

You obviously we're not at the march today in London. The people who made the effort to be there were people from all generations who are very concerned for the future. Time will tell but so far it is not looking great.
I did not see any terrible two tantrums but I did see a peaceful United demonstration by people of different ages and cultures who are care about the future of their country.

Of course it was across the generations as this has nothing to do with age or people's educational qualifications. Shortly CF will tell us why he introduced these two factors into the discussion without explanation. They quite naturally provoked a response.
I for one am interested in his answer.
In the meantime let's not get distracted by fallouts over old v young. It's more damn labels and simplistic.


Mike

 

[GrannyJen]

What gets me is why can't we just accept the deed has been done and get on with it. How the hell are we going to manage the future if we cannot get over the past.

Let's sue the Romans for buggering off and leaving us to those damned angles and those upstarts from Lower Saxony

 

[aileron346]

Wow. Actually I think it many walks of life the young lead the way but in the current climate where the young feel that have been treated very badly by older generations, to demean their opinion is very dangerous.

They are having the public services the current generation enjoyed whittled away; they are being mid-sold student loans to hang over them life long by a generation who themselves had mostly free university education. They are being lectured about how long they will work and their futures mortgaged by PFI loans. All by the generation that flogged off state assets and most mutual interest companies banking the shares in the process.

On an open-minded, internationalist outlook, they lead the older generation by miles. On tolerance of difference they lead the way and it can be no surprise that the young generation voted the way they did.

My 15 year old daughter had rather a better conclusion than the 'wisdom' one above...that maybe votes on important long term issues should be weighted in proportion to the number of years the decision may affect the voter. Well...I'd add extending the vote down to 15 y olds! Certainly more sense from most teenagers in the last two weeks than in the right-wing tabloids.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WelshGas]

Had you followed the link I gave, and interpreted the chart, you would see that the generalisation was based on hard facts. The chart showed the percent of remain and leave local authorities split by GCSE scores.

GCSE scores - for heavens sake haven't you got anything better to offer. There is a lot more to intelligence and education than how many GCSE's someone has got and even more so when it comes to common sense.

 

[fred]

It was for the remain side to give these arguments. I don't know how many times I have to say this but spreading fear, accusations of racism and banging on about 350 million on the side of buses was stupid. You are still doing it, everyone with an ounce of sense knew it was a distortion but the remain side and media just could not let it go.
Remain should have won and blew it.


Mike

I honestly believe that I did give this argument several times in the other referendum thread. I'll find the link and cross post it.

 

[DavidofHook]

No need. It is a widely accepted fact that migrants, as a whole, contribute more than they use.

I think that there are genuine concerns about the fostering of children born to foreign born migrants: but not that they exist or use up local authority resources, but that there are too few foreign born migrants putting themselves forward as foster parents.

Show me the sums I say again

 

[fred]

it is generally accepted that those who voted to remain are, on average, educated to a higher level than those who voted to leave.

Actually not. See the article I linked to here

 

[T6 CFO]

I honestly believe that I did give this argument several times in the other referendum thread. I'll find the link and cross post it.

Fred I'm sure you did. You were a remain voter but unfortunately not on their campaign
My point was the tactics and methods used by the remain side. Not you or this board.


Mike

 

[Amarillo]

Why is it in your opinion.
I will then give you mine.

I have already posted my opinion - nostalgia. A look back to the past through rose tinted spectacles.

 

[Amarillo]

Shortly CF will tell us why he introduced these two factors into the discussion without explanation.

It is because the differences, especially with the old/young divide is, if you choose to believe the data, so stark.

Why is it that nearly twice as many voters in the age group 18-24 (64%) voted to remain, compared with the over 65s (33%)?

Is it because the young are likely to be more optimistic than the old?

Is it, as I surmised, that the elderly are more likely to be nostalgic for the "good ol' days"?

It is a topic of interest to me.

 

[GrannyJen]

It is because the differences, especially with the old/young divide is, if you choose to believe the data, so stark.

Why is it that nearly twice as many voters in the age group 18-24 (64%) voted to remain, compared with the over 65s (33%)?

Is it because the young are likely to be more optimistic than the old?

Is it, as I surmised, that the elderly are more likely to be nostalgic for the "good ol' days"?

It is a topic of interest to me.

One of my sisters, and I have a lot, suggested to me "but our kids don't know anything else but to be part of Europe"....

To which she was horrified, when her sister spit fire and feathers to remind her ....


"we are two years different in age, until 1987 I knew nothing but Britain being bust, Eden going into a stupid old colonial venture in Suez that destroyed much of our reputation, Macmillan, Home and Wilson begging to join the EC but hearing "Non" from DeGaulle, the Americans threatening to bankrupt as for our unpaid war debt unless we went into Vietnam, Heath turning the lights off and the three day week, Callaghan pleading on television for an end to industrial strife, unburied lying by their undug graves, rubbish piled in the streets and Healey begging to the IMF to bail out Bankrupt Britain....

Is that what we want our children to remember or do we want them to remember a prosperity that was beyond my wildest dreams when I was old enough to vote?

 

[Amarillo]

why can't we just accept the deed has been done and get on with it.

Because so many of us feel this was an important decision, the correct choice has not been made, and a great many people were misled by false information. For example, £350 million per week for the NHS if we leave.

This is exactly why the somewhat odious but honest Michael Gove felt he had to assassinate Boris. He couldn't give him his support knowing how Boris had misled the electorate in a cause he didn't believe in.

 

[GrannyJen]

Because so many of us feel this was an important decision, the correct choice has not been made, and a great many people were misled by false information. For example, £350 million per week for the NHS if we leave.

This is exactly why the somewhat odious but honest Michael Gove felt he had to assassinate Boris. He couldn't give him his support knowing how Boris had misled the electorate in a cause he didn't believe in.

Yes, we know Boris lied, Gove and Boris did deal, Murdoch filled his newspapers with lies,

We know all that.

However it stands. The people have had their say. It's called democracy. For some common sense has prevailed, for others stupidity has.

Big deal. It's done. Move on. Make the best of a crap result. Until you and others overturn our totally corrupt and unrepresentative electoral system and get rid of that abscess on the skin of democracy called the house of Lords then nothing will change.

Worry about us, going into the future, be positive, be strong, and go with democracy. God bless those who paid the final sacrifice for giving us just that.

 

[Amarillo]

Show me the sums I say again

Sigh...

 

[Amarillo]

It's called democracy

Is Putin's re-election bought about by propaganda from his control of the media 'democracy'?

A narrow referendum result brought about by "an egomaniac whose vanity and ambition was so great he was prepared to lead his country on a path he knew led to disaster, so long as it fed his own appetite for status" is not democracy.

 

[Digger]

One of my sisters, and I have a lot, suggested to me "but our kids don't know anything else but to be part of Europe"....

To which she was horrified, when her sister spit fire and feathers to remind her ....


"we are two years different in age, until 1987 I knew nothing but Britain being bust, Eden going into a stupid old colonial venture in Suez that destroyed much of our reputation, Macmillan, Home and Wilson begging to join the EC but hearing "Non" from DeGaulle, the Americans threatening to bankrupt as for our unpaid war debt unless we went into Vietnam, Heath turning the lights off and the three day week, Callaghan pleading on television for an end to industrial strife, unburied lying by their undug graves, rubbish piled in the streets and Healey begging to the IMF to bail out Bankrupt Britain....

Is that what we want our children to remember or do we want them to remember a prosperity that was beyond my wildest dreams when I was old enough to vote?

You have to realise that this country is succesful not due to the EU but due to our generation ie 30 to 60 year olds and hard work. My concern is the intent of federalism and its abuse by Junker and his kind. A looser EU with national power remaining with nations gavernments was my choice. I regret that the other EU nations have not spoken up to remive the intended federal state and its effects. These are totally unacceptable to any who cherish freedom. Too many have not read up the EC documents but at last some other countries may start to back us before it is too late. As for the demonstations by remain I wonder what it would have been like if the result had been the opposite?

 

[GrannyJen]

Tom,

Sorry,

Bringing Putin into a British electoral exercise is so fatuous as to be hopelessly irrelevant.

Sorry,

I have the same emotions as you do regarding Brexit, and given what I am in France for so I am entitled to be terribly angry about the campaign and the result, but I love democracy, really, I just love it, and we have had a referendum in which every vote was counted, in a contest where our system of vote count is an envy in much of the world, where the population was totally free to gather whatever information they felt necessary to make an informed choice, where there was no commissariat to tell you what choice to make....

Democracy is so priceless that just sometimes you have to accept it may wee wee you off.

 

[Digger]

Apologies for errors in type. Small screen Samsung and big fingers

 

[GrannyJen]

You have to realise that this country is succesful not due to the EU but due to our generation ie 30 to 60 year olds and hard work. My concern is the intent of federalism and its abuse by Junker and his kind. A looser EU with national power remaining with nations gavernments was my choice. I regret that the other EU nations have not spoken up to remive the intended federal state and its effects. These are totally unacceptable to any who cherish freedom. Too many have not read up the EC documents but at last some other countries may start to back us before it is too late. As for the demonstations by remain I wonder what it would have been like if the result had been the opposite?

So what's your problem?

please do not tell me I have to realise.

You have already, in a post long ago, told me I am stupid because I , unlike you, am not a a research academic,...

Please do not continue to dictate your perceived academic superiority to me.

 

[WelshGas]

Sigh...

I know. It's difficult losing an argument.

 

[LowMan]

It is because the differences, especially with the old/young divide is, if you choose to believe the data, so stark.

Why is it that nearly twice as many voters in the age group 18-24 (64%) voted to remain, compared with the over 65s (33%)?

Is it because the young are likely to be more optimistic than the old?

Is it, as I surmised, that the elderly are more likely to be nostalgic for the "good ol' days"?

It is a topic of interest to me.

Have to say Tom, I too found the split based on age groups very concerning, but oddly I also felt it provided some optimism. Despite the craziness of the current situation, perhaps evolution hasn't completely stalled!

 

[Digger]

So what's your problem?

Have you read the intent? No sensible person would support federalism of so many nations . The USSR tried and failed and people cannot be make to conform or stand back when against their right to choose .