Goodbye Brussels, hello Burnley.

[GrannyJen]

Oh well, it's done now,

So best get on with the job whether we individually call it a good job or bad job.

From my own very selfish personal interest the £-Euro is still around 10% higher than it was a couple of years ago, the FTSE is higher than it was a couple of months ago and the expected crash and burn simply has not happened.

How disingenuous of our lying press to talk about "Billions wiped off the stock market" as if it was financial meltdown when the "billions wiped off" were the billions just added in the last couple of weeks.

 

[Roger Boeken]

I don't understand : what is the 'U' in UK standing for ?
Did they also enter the EU with a referendum ?

Very sad indeed.

 

[LowMan]

I don't understand : what is the 'U' in UK standing for ?
Did they also enter the EU with a referendum ?

Very sad indeed.

Sadly a number of aspiring Dictators in our society have worked out that Referendums are a handy tool to sway the public one way or another, especially during times of crisis (austerity, security threats etc).

Personally I agree with the late Clemment Attlee that they should have no place in a Democracy.

 

[adinalee111]

Loads of youngsters on the TV this afternoon ( 18-25) moaning that the older population has ruined it for them, when the reporter asked if they had voted and they answered 'no, they were too busy' I think if most of the younger population had voted the result would of been reversed.

I voted out and I am happyt with the result, this is all pie in the sky at the moment, I think people need to calm down and let the dust settle.

People were moaning abou the USD this morning as it was $1.29 however it has since gone up to $1.38

 

[MattBW]

Just to set out some facts in a very simple way:
Our currency was devalued by 7% this morning

Over 8% now Im afraid to report.

 

[MattBW]

Come the 1980’s and Maggie tells us we are joining Europe, now none of us had a say on this we were told we were joining.

I thought Maggie was very much against Europe?

 

[MattBW]

I was extremely sad this morning when I saw the news.

I already heard of a business moving thousands of jobs out of London into Dublin and Frankfurt. I really hope I am proven wrong but I can't help but feel like we've cut our nose off to spite our face.

Such is democracy however, I just wish politicians would stop saying the British people have spoken. 51.9% of those that turned up have spoken

 

[estresao]

There are still lot of thing pending to do, but I don't think UK get absolutely "unplugged" from the EU. There are other countries (Norway, Iceland....) with agreements which allow them interact with the EU.

I think now for UK and EU is time of negotiations. I don't think that "separation" get so radical as someone could think.

 

[DavidofHook]

I thought Maggie was very much against Europe?

Edward Heath took us into Europe, Harold Wilson gave us the vote and Maggie bashed them with her hand bag and got the rebate which Tony Blair later gave away a lot of.
Does that help?

 

[MattBW]

There are still lot of thing pending to do, but I don't think UK get absolutely "unplugged" from the EU. There are other countries (Norway, Iceland....) with agreements which allow them interact with the EU.

I think now for UK and EU is time of negotiations. I don't think that "separation" get so radical as someone could think.

The UK needs the EU and the EU the UK for trade, its not going away. However any agreemends like Norway has would still have many of the same requirements of membership but without any of the influence. Weaker position not better? I genuinely hope I'm proven wrong on my feelings on this.

 

[Freeley]

Yeah exactly my point Matt that seems to be the case with Norway, so I don't see that the immigration issue that has swung the vote to leave will be worth the paper it's written on so to speak as we'll still have to agree to take a certain number of migrants as I understand it.

Sent from my Galaxy S6

 

[Sp0_0k]

Disappointing result for me, but we just have to get on with it now ....

Can't agree on that. I don't see why 51% of mostly old people can make a decision for the future of the country.
I get it when one of 2 candidates wins with 51% but making such a major decision for the country should require at least 60%
Because in current case "changing nothing" means same stable situation with some old negative parts.
"Leaving" means a major risky move for the whole history of a country which can result in a disaster.
That majority young people who voted to stay should really protest.
1st small step there is a petition for the new referendum, that already crashed the government website.

P.S. I am no way a huge fan of EU but leaving in today's situation is insanely premature. UK should definitely stay and wait for a very major reason for leaving.

 

[larrylamb]

Can't agree on that. I don't see why 51% of mostly old people can make a decision for the future of the country.
I get it when one of 2 candidates wins with 51% but making such a major decision for the country should require at least 60%
Because in current case "changing nothing" means same stable situation with some old negative parts.
"Leaving" means a major risky move for the whole history of a country which can result in a disaster.
That majority young people who voted to stay should really protest.
1st small step there is a petition for the new referendum, that already crashed the government website.

P.S. I am no way a huge fan of EU but leaving in today's situation is insanely premature. UK should definitely stay and wait for a very major reason for leaving.

When I voted the polling station was full of middle-aged and elderly people, perhaps more of todays youth should have voted.

 

[Bigted]

The UK needs the EU and the EU the UK for trade, its not going away. However any agreemends like Norway has would still have many of the same requirements of membership but without any of the influence. Weaker position not better? I genuinely hope I'm proven wrong on my feelings on this.

And Norway pay more per head to be in the Free trade zone than we did to be a full EU member. They also had to accept free movement of people.

 

[GrannyJen]

When I voted the polling station was full of middle-aged and elderly people, perhaps more of todays youth should have voted.

I am meeting two of my nieces tonight both of whom wanted in, can't understand why the majority voted to leave, moaned like hell to me this morning and when I asked "did you vote?"...... "er, no......"

 

[Sp0_0k]

I am meeting two of my nieces tonight both of whom wanted in, can't understand why the majority voted to leave, moaned like hell to me this morning and when I asked "did you vote?"...... "er, no......"

Exactly the reason why on possible second referendum there won't be even 49% leavers.
Lots of people didn't take it serious. Clearly nobody expected this "win".

 

[GrannyJen]

Exactly the reason why on possible second referendum there won't be even 49% leavers.
Lots of people didn't take it serious. Clearly nobody expected this "win".

Quite the opposite.

The comparatively huge turnout indicates that citizens of the UK took this very seriously indeed.

 

[larrylamb]

possible second referendum

Not a chance of that even though it's possible if we don't invoke Article 50.

 

[GrannyJen]

Sorry to all those who do not like the result, including me, but it's called democracy.

We had a vote. The majority of those who voted chose to leave.

There is a lot of hand wringing going on about the poor younger population. They will manage. They are the future, They will pick the pieces up and make a good job of it. It's not new. We've been doing it for centuries.

 

[MattBW]

I am meeting two of my nieces tonight both of whom wanted in, can't understand why the majority voted to leave, moaned like hell to me this morning and when I asked "did you vote?"...... "er, no......"

a face palm moment for sure.

I was always brought up that if you don't vote you don't really have a right to complain when it doesn't go the way you want.

I'm sure when they're older they too will be voting for something the future generation won't want either. It's what slows human progress but its just how the species is I think.

 

[MattBW]

They are the future, They will pick the pieces up and make a good job of it. It's not new. We've been doing it for centuries.

They have no choice but to manage really do they? People work with what is in front of them and they will manage. Everyone will.

It is democracy but things like this just show that democracy by its nature will always ignore a good portion of the population and in this case its so close to half its scary when you think about it in those terms.

Its a terrible political system but also the best one.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Can't agree on that. I don't see why 51% of mostly old people can make a decision for the future of the country.
I get it when one of 2 candidates wins with 51% but making such a major decision for the country should require at least 60%

Sp0_0k, the UK constitution (which is uncodified but basically consists instead of a set of long-agreed ways of doing things) does not have any laws saying what proportion of people need to vote 'yes' to change a constitutional arrangement, whether that is leaving the EU or changing the voting system or whatever else. The convention from previous referendums - most recently in Scotland in 2014 - is that it is 50%, which seems at least logical. Picking any other number would be arbitrary - if 60% as you suggest, why not 75%, or 90%?

There might be some merit in an argument that it should be at least 50% of those eligible to vote, rather than 50% of those who actually voted. But others might then say that if people can't be bothered to vote, why should their views be considered?

In any case, I'm sure the older forum members (and most of us probably fit that description!) might observe that the UK's joining of the EU in the first place was never voted on at all.

Whatever our personal views of the outcome (and I am very disappointed by it) there has been what most British people would I guess say was a free and fair process.

Even if some will feel bitter about the ways some of the arguments were put forward on both sides, or how certain politicians failed in making those arguments, or how some 'facts' were repeatedly stretched beyond credibility, all of us who voted are adults and we all had the opportunity to investigate and think about the issues ourselves and make our own minds up. No-one forced us to listen to what the official campaigns or newspapers were preaching to us.

We've made our collective decision and now we have to move forward with what the majority chose. That said, I do think a lot of people voted Leave to give our political class a kicking, and that is very unhealthy for democracy in this country.

 

[CALI FATE]

The liberal elite (who have ruled us since the war) will do what the Ireland elite did a few years ago - keep holding the same referendum until the population votes the way they want. I dont think even this vote will bring the change the majority of the nations clearly wants - but it has certainly given them something to think about

 

[ROKET]

The liberal elite (who have ruled us since the war) will do what the Ireland elite did a few years ago - keep holding the same referendum until the population votes the way they want. I dont think even this vote will bring the change the majority of the nations clearly wants - but it has certainly given them something to think about

As i said on another thread we needed to vote out for them to come back with a better deal and they will!

 

[Digger]

Funny that when the democratic right of the electorate does not agree with someone's opinion it must be wrong.
My nephew returned yesterday from Spain and the first thing that he did was to vote to leave the EU. He has lived and worked in Spain and has three very young children and when asked why his answer was that the Spanish people would vote to leave if they were given the opportunity as they feel that they political elite do not listen or care about them.
I personally find the arrogance of Junker and Hollande offensive. Their treatment of Cameron when he tried to negotiate was nothing less than disgraceful and I think that may have swayed many of the "middle-aged and perhaps others" to decide to leave as they also found the arrogance of this delete to be distasteful.
To say that the young are for the EU depends on who you ask. It is true that many of them mix with other students of other nationalities which is a great thing. Immigration is also good for the country. My issue with the EU and especially the EC is that it is unable to accept that the public have a right to object and demand changes. That is why it is failing. As it stands it is undemocratic as an elite should never have the arrogance to deny the people a right to self-determination.
I also personally hope that prior to anything happening they sit down and recognise their failure and offer an olive branch and real reform. If they fail to do so I honestly think that the people of Europe may also demand exit.
It is sad that this is happened and I do not think for one moment that responses will be balanced.