Goodbye Brussels, hello Burnley.

[Keith Smith]

Statistics Alan if we go off the numbers on your chart only 32% or so of British people voted to leave, so clearly there is no mandate to leave.

 

[WelshGas]

Statistics Alan if we go off the numbers on your chart only 32% or so of British people voted to leave, so clearly there is no mandate to leave.

Everyone registered, your fault if you don't, has a Vote. If you don't exercise that opportunity when it arises then tough.That means you are happy to go along with the Majority Decision.
That's Life.

 

[WelshGas]

Where's the "old hag" age bracket?

On Page 2.

 

[GrannyJen]

On Page 2.

You mean.....

I can no longer make page 3?

 

[Amarillo]

Leave voters would no doubt have accepted the vote

Let us not forget that the online petition calling for a rethink which has gained over 4,000,000 signature was started by a leave supporter.

 

[Amarillo]

have you considered that yes they did but the uneducated are the ones left behind by a system which is designed for and perpetuated by the self interest of that class, and that is the reason they chose to leave, not the fact that they were uneducated.

Yes.

 

[T6 CFO]

Let us not forget that the online petition calling for a rethink which has gained over 4,000,000 signature was started by a leave supporter.

You clearly know that the point about Leave voters was that they would have accepted the result of the referendum. Not that one of them, you say has started an I don't like democracy petition.
Your replies are sounding ever more desperate.


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[T6 CFO]

Yes.

And presumeably dismissed it as it does not suit you!


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[DavidofHook]

Have you any hard evidence that suggests that the widely reported education and age divide in the EU referendum is inaccurate, or are you just posting a groundless opinion?

Widely reported does not accuracy make.

 

[Amarillo]

And presumeably dismissed it as it does not suit you!

Not at all. I find it a very credible argument.

 

[DavidofHook]

Let us not forget that the online petition calling for a rethink which has gained over 4,000,000 signature was started by a leave supporter.

But was then found to be fraudulent as it had been hacked so of no consequence.

 

[bigmac77]

But was then found to be fraudulent as it had been hacked so of no consequence.

The fraudulent signings were removed.

 

[Amarillo]

Widely reported does not accuracy make.

Age you saying that there is no age related link in the way people voted in the recent referendum?

 

[Amarillo]

But was then found to be fraudulent as it had been hacked so of no consequence.

Is this an admission that a leave supporter acted fraudulently?

 

[DavidofHook]

The fraudulent signings were removed
Yes, I saw that they had only removed 77000. It was the Commons committee who looks at these things I think.
However, if you look on the website you can see that there are thousands of suspicious names, for example thousands from British Antarctic Survey when there are only 800 there, also from countries thought the world, including the Varican.
bots have been used to add names automatically from what I have read.
I would not give it any credence.

 

[T6 CFO]

It's got no credence anyway. Just lots of people who don't like democratic result.


Mike

 

[DavidofHook]

A Commons committee removed 77000 I understand.

However, id you look on the website you will see,thousands of suspicious names. For example thousand s were posted by British Antarctic Survey which has only 800 people, as well as from virtually every country in the world Including the Vatican.
Apparently bots were used to add names automatically
I would not give it any credence.

 

[T6 CFO]

Is this an admission that a leave supporter acted fraudulently?

Your no longer taking this seriously and are wasting my time so I'm afraid I shall be disregarding you from now on. I have the utmost respect for people with a different view but on this subject you choose to be objectionable and argumentative for no purpose so I shall filter out your noise and continue the discussion with adults.


Mike

 

[DavidofHook]

Age you saying that there is no age related link in the way people voted in the recent referendum?

No, I said that the fact that it was widely reported is not a reason to assume that it is accurate.

 

[Keith Smith]

Everyone registered, your fault if you don't, has a Vote. If you don't exercise that opportunity when it arises then tough.That means you are happy to go along with the Majority Decision.
That's Life.

You have misunderstood my point which was in response to the figures quoted by AlanC. His post, of a statical analysis of the overall vote, was using stats to show that it was incorrect to show that over 70% of young people wished to stay in the EU. However if you use the same statistical method just 32% (approx) of the British public voted to leave. I did not challenge the legitimacy of the vote I just used the figure of 32% to show his conclusion was equally a statistical manipulation of the figures.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Interesting to see the results of Ipsos MORI poll just out, which says that only a small proportion of the population would change their vote if the referendum was re-run. That tends to scotch assertions that great droves of the public-at-large feel they were actually deceived by lies/misinformation.

Having said that, the precise poll figures were that 5 percent of Leave voters would change their vote now, versus 2 percent of Remainers. A three percent swing would of course not quite have nudged the result to Remain, but whatever the margin of error in the poll it confirms to me that, when all's said and done, the country is split pretty neatly down the middle by the fundamental questions around EU membership.

I voted Remain, but to be clear here I'm NOT advocating a re-run and the results from 23 June have to be accepted IMO. But we must surely stay very conscious that almost exactly half the population feel they have been forced into a situation they didn't want and still don't - even though the sky evidently hasn't fallen in (yet).

Notwithstanding the (over-)analysis of stats in this thread so far, it seems very clear to me that Remainers were significantly over-represented in the younger, richer, higher-educated and more ethnically diverse demographics. Does that make the vote outcome unfair per se, to them or anyone else? Obviously not: everyone had one vote. But should we try to understand what the vote means in terms of how people view risks and change from globalisation and other forces? Yes, absolutely we should. Politicians say they're listening to that, but they don't act like it (hence the Chancellor's announcement this morning of yet another measure which will have the effect of boosting corporate dividends - which benefits who? The rich. People like us.)

That said, I do share Boris's view - and you won't hear me say that very often - that we seem to have been gripped by a form of mass hysteria at the moment. Rational and balanced thinking seems to be very difficult against that.

 

[TomC]

Interesting to see the results of Ipsos MORI poll just out, which says that only a small proportion of the population would change their vote if the referendum was re-run. That tends to scotch assertions that great droves of the public-at-large feel they were actually deceived by lies/misinformation.

Having said that, the precise poll figures were that 5 percent of Leave voters would change their vote now, versus 2 percent of Remainers. A three percent swing would of course not quite have nudged the result to Remain, but whatever the margin of error in the poll it confirms to me that, when all's said and done, the country is split pretty neatly down the middle by the fundamental questions around EU membership.

I voted Remain, but to be clear here I'm NOT advocating a re-run and the results from 23 June have to be accepted IMO. But we must surely stay very conscious that almost exactly half the population feel they have been forced into a situation they didn't want and still don't - even though the sky evidently hasn't fallen in (yet).

Notwithstanding the (over-)analysis of stats in this thread so far, it seems very clear to me that Remainers were significantly over-represented in the younger, richer, higher-educated and more ethnically diverse demographics. Does that make the vote outcome unfair per se, to them or anyone else? Obviously not: everyone had one vote. But should we try to understand what the vote means in terms of how people view risks and change from globalisation and other forces? Yes, absolutely we should. Politicians say they're listening to that, but they don't act like it (hence the Chancellor's announcement this morning of yet another measure which will have the effect of boosting corporate dividends - which benefits who? The rich. People like us.)

That said, I do share Boris's view - and you won't hear me say that very often - that we seem to have been gripped by a form of mass hysteria at the moment. Rational and balanced thinking seems to be very difficult against that.

Not taking any sides on this somewhat heated and divisive thread but surely if there is ONE thing we have learned from the Scottish and EU referendums and perhaps agree on, is pollsters are worthless. I would have more faith in the guild of fairground fortune tellers and Mystics.


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[TomC]

Remember this is the Ipsos Mori who gave remain an 8 point lead on the day of the referendum. I don't like the role pollsters play in our electoral process and think rightly or wrongly they can influence voting. 'IF', and I wasn't, a protest voter and I believed Ipsos Mori on the day I would have been feeling safe that I could cast my protest with little effect to the outcome. As history has shown that was in fact very far from the truth. Ban the pollsters is what I say and let the people make there own decisions.


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[Velma's Dad]

surely if there is ONE thing we have learned from the Scottish and EU referendums and perhaps agree on, is pollsters are worthless

I understand and have some sympathy with this sentiment. Polls are assumed by many to have a precision and reliability which they are incapable of delivering on. That surely doesn't make them worthless though, any more than a weather forecast is worthless.

I also suspect like you that polls do influence voting in various ways, but I'm not sure if I would agree they should therefore be banned (the media doubtless has a bigger effect on how people vote but presumably we wouldn't ban media coverage?).

But on the post-referendum poll I referred to above, I still think it tends to confirm my belief that most people voted on their pre-campaign, fundamental, personal perspectives which were as much emotional and cultural as they were factual (whether that was concerns over immigration, or a belief in being 'better together' in the EU, or just feeling anti-establishment) and that very few people have subsequently changed their views on those things. In fact I suspect a lot of people are now probably even more entrenched, in ways that make us more divided than we were before.

 

[DavidofHook]

I understand and have some sympathy with this sentiment. Polls are assumed by many to have a precision and reliability which they are incapable of delivering on. That surely doesn't make them worthless though, any more than a weather forecast is worthless.

I also suspect like you that polls do influence voting in various ways, but I'm not sure if I would agree they should therefore be banned (the media doubtless has a bigger effect on how people vote but presumably we wouldn't ban media coverage?).

But on the post-referendum poll I referred to above, I still think it tends to confirm my belief that most people voted on their pre-campaign, fundamental, personal perspectives which were as much emotional and cultural as they were factual (whether that was concerns over immigration, or a belief in being 'better together' in the EU, or just feeling anti-establishment) and that very few people have subsequently changed their views on those things. In fact I suspect a lot of people are now probably even more entrenched, in ways that make us more divided than we were before.

If we are as divided as you fear (and I don't argue with that view) then we so need to be encouraged to accept the situation and work together to make a success of things.
I do think that once the new Prime Minister is appointed we will start to see a way forward.