Grand or not?

[CampervanTime]

Well we've booked in to go and see a Sven at Wandahome in mid November. I really do fancy trying a GC600 too and would love to see a 'working' Sven too if anyone is in or near the East Midlands and fancies a cuppa.

Compared to a Cali (transporter based) these vans are rare and still a significant investment so I feel a good deal of investigation is required before committing !

 

[The Merle]

Well we've booked in to go and see a Sven at Wandahome in mid November. I really do fancy trying a GC600 too and would love to see a 'working' Sven too if anyone is in or near the East Midlands and fancies a cuppa.

Compared to a Cali (transporter based) these vans are rare and still a significant investment so I feel a good deal of investigation is required before committing !

I’ve had a good look at both again it’s down to personal needs etc.
Plus point for Sven: rear bench seat pulls forward and reclines a bit for travelling (you lose leg room around table when it’s not bolt up though).
Sven has winter heating and rear bed with pop out makes it longer compared to GC600
Oh and westfalia have been making campers longer than VW
MAN base haven’t a clue what dealers are like, or if VW dealers will service.
Campersales service was first class on my westy purchase and after care.
GC600 more 2nd hand/new ones available, has the vw badge, and California name with lots of VW dealers.

I haven’t owned either but on a 600 base I would go Sven, as i would need bigger bed and winter heating.

Keep us posted and maybe post some pics of vans when you view.

 

[Mr T]

“Sven Time” doesn’t have the same ring to it as “California Time”
You are welcome to see my 600 and have a chat anytime. Either take a trip to West Oxfordshire or I’m sure I can find an excuse to have a weekend away.
In fact I’ve just arrived at Kingsbury Water Park Club Site, that must be East Midlands ish?!
If you stick with the MWB Sven does that still give you a bigger bed? Is the pop out making it much wider (longer bed) than the 600 with its 2 side flares? I don’t know.

 

[Svenhedintony]

Good afternoon all.

I have been following this thread with interest and having the same thoughts. However, I have previously owned a SVEN HEDIN, which I sold during the COVID period. In fact I lived in the Sven during the first lock down and spent summer 2020 pottering around the UK, before selling it.

When the world opened up again I decided to get another van. The SVEN HEDIN was my first choice, however, getting one was impossible, so the GC or Grand Canyon S was the next choice.There are plenty to choose from, but preferred the SVEN HEDIN, before making a decision on a GC I was able to place a deposit on a SVEN HEDIN that is due for delivery in a few months.

Happy to answer any queries on the SVEN HEDIN.

 

[CampervanTime]

“Sven Time” doesn’t have the same ring to it as “California Time”
You are welcome to see my 600 and have a chat anytime. Either take a trip to West Oxfordshire or I’m sure I can find an excuse to have a weekend away.
In fact I’ve just arrived at Kingsbury Water Park Club Site, that must be East Midlands ish?!
If you stick with the MWB Sven does that still give you a bigger bed? Is the pop out making it much wider (longer bed) than the 600 with its 2 side flares? I don’t know.

That's very kind, thank you. May well take you up on that offer! You're right though, Sven Time does possibly imply something entirely different !!

 

[CampervanTime]

Good afternoon all.

I have been following this thread with interest and having the same thoughts. However, I have previously owned a SVEN HEDIN, which I sold during the COVID period. In fact I lived in the Sven during the first lock down and spent summer 2020 pottering around the UK, before selling it.

When the world opened up again I decided to get another van. The SVEN HEDIN was my first choice, however, getting one was impossible, so the GC or Grand Canyon S was the next choice.There are plenty to choose from, but preferred the SVEN HEDIN, before making a decision on a GC I was able to place a deposit on a SVEN HEDIN that is due for delivery in a few months.

Happy to answer any queries on the SVEN HEDIN.

That's great that you managed to get your name down on one.

You must have A LOT of experience after living in one during lockdown!

If it was a 2017+ crafter or MAN based Sven, could I ask a couple of quick questions;

1) Heating - when operating the diesel powered heating and hot water, how much battery power does this use and is it worth getting the second AGM battery to help continue to power it when off grid?
2) Does the Sven heating system have an 'auto dump' frost protection like the Cali Grand, as I have read about how annoying this can be
3) The underfloor heating (if you have it), is it electric hookup only or does it work from diesel heating / off grid too?
4) Which engine/gearbox did you have and can you give a very rough MPG indication at all? Almost irrelevant in the whole conversation I know, but would be interested to know.
5) Any design flaws in the Sven that you can think of?

Thanks

 

[Svenhedintony]

That's great that you managed to get your name down on one.

You must have A LOT of experience after living in one during lockdown!

If it was a 2017+ crafter or MAN based Sven, could I ask a couple of quick questions;

1) Heating - when operating the diesel powered heating and hot water, how much battery power does this use and is it worth getting the second AGM battery to help continue to power it when off grid?
2) Does the Sven heating system have an 'auto dump' frost protection like the Cali Grand, as I have read about how annoying this can be
3) The underfloor heating (if you have it), is it electric hookup only or does it work from diesel heating / off grid too?
4) Which engine/gearbox did you have and can you give a very rough MPG indication at all? Almost irrelevant in the whole conversation I know, but would be interested to know.
5) Any design flaws in the Sven that you can think of?

Thanks

Good morning CaliforniaTime

Yes, it was a 2020 Sven on the Man TGE chassis.

1) The heating system is one of the reasons I have gone for the Sven Hedin again. It is far superior to all of the systems I have had before. I had the second battery and 200w of solar power. The solar kept the batteries topped up, however the weather was good and the heating was rarely used, but the hot water was always on.

2) I don’t recall there being an ‘auto dump’ frost protection system, nor did I have any issues, although there weren’t many cold nights. I have had issues with the Truma system in other vans, it is annoying.

3) I didn’t have the underfloor heating.

4) I had the 177bhp DSG. I covered approximately 7k miles in it whilst I owned it. General running around was no more than 25mpg. On longer journeys it would do 30mpg.

5) Design flaws:

- The bathroom door would catch on the work top - fixed with a rubber stop
- Needed to add some small rubber stops on other furniture e.g. the bed step to protect them
- The fridge was problematic initially, the compressor etc. is remotely mounted under the bed. This was fine once the problem was identified and fixed.
- You can leave the bed made up, but the pop out means you have to keep sorting the bottom sheet out
- No awning light option - easy to sort out
- The mixer taps are plastic, I assume for weight saving, however, the van fully laden with full tanks was only around 3400kg
- The bathroom door catch was a clever magnetic catch, never worked properly, I see Westfalia have changed the design.
- The rear door handle has a strap fitted so that the handle can be reached in an emergency, the strap needs to be perfectly positioned or it stops the top of the door latching.

Mostly niggles that were/are easy to fix.

 

[CampervanTime]

@Svenhedintony thanks very much for a great reply.

Interesting fridge design then with the compressor under the bed. Did it keep you awake cutting in and out?!

Not really a lot of big issues in there then, sounds like a well sorted design, which I suppose is to be expected given how long they have been making them.

How did you find it build quality wise? I'm not sure if you've had a Cali before but they do tend to squeak, rattle and buzz a lot when you drive around in them. Is the Sven the same? From everything we have read the Sven (Crafter/MAN) is a good van to drive too.

 

[Svenhedintony]

@Svenhedintony thanks very much for a great reply.

Interesting fridge design then with the compressor under the bed. Did it keep you awake cutting in and out?!

Not really a lot of big issues in there then, sounds like a well sorted design, which I suppose is to be expected given how long they have been making them.

How did you find it build quality wise? I'm not sure if you've had a Cali before but they do tend to squeak, rattle and buzz a lot when you drive around in them. Is the Sven the same? From everything we have read the Sven (Crafter/MAN) is a good van to drive too.

Hi CaliforniaTime

I did notice the fridge compressor at first, to be fair it isn’t noisy, but when it is the middle of the night you do notice it at first.

The build quality is excellent, but as I mentioned before I had to put some small silicone dots in some places to protect things and stop the odd rattle. Apart from the fridge issue no real problems. The odd hinge came loose, as did the hinge on the bed, but an easy fix.

Noise wise it was quiet, with no rattles apart from my poor packing. There was a buzz from the sliding door, but soon identified and sorted.

I have driven many vans and owned Fiat vans. The reason for looking at the GC/Sven Hedin/Hymer Grand Canyon S is the base vehicle. I haven’t looked at the latest Fiat, but the refinement, fit, finish and tech are way ahead on n the VW/Man vans.

Thinking about the heating again IIRC the hot water is not heated by a jacket round the boiler as in a Truma/Alde system. I am sure the hot water cylinder was under the bed remote from the boiler. The heating is a wet system and has antifreeze in it. So frost protection is better. The drain valves are under the bed, but I have a recollection about another valve under the bench seat.

 

[Svenhedintony]

Worth a read

Hot water heating system | Westfalia Mobil GmbH

www.westfalia-mobil.com

 

[Jester]

Good morning CaliforniaTime

Yes, it was a 2020 Sven on the Man TGE chassis.

1) The heating system is one of the reasons I have gone for the Sven Hedin again. It is far superior to all of the systems I have had before. I had the second battery and 200w of solar power. The solar kept the batteries topped up, however the weather was good and the heating was rarely used, but the hot water was always on.

2) I don’t recall there being an ‘auto dump’ frost protection system, nor did I have any issues, although there weren’t many cold nights. I have had issues with the Truma system in other vans, it is annoying.

3) I didn’t have the underfloor heating.

4) I had the 177bhp DSG. I covered approximately 7k miles in it whilst I owned it. General running around was no more than 25mpg. On longer journeys it would do 30mpg.

5) Design flaws:

- The bathroom door would catch on the work top - fixed with a rubber stop
- Needed to add some small rubber stops on other furniture e.g. the bed step to protect them
- The fridge was problematic initially, the compressor etc. is remotely mounted under the bed. This was fine once the problem was identified and fixed.
- You can leave the bed made up, but the pop out means you have to keep sorting the bottom sheet out
- No awning light option - easy to sort out
- The mixer taps are plastic, I assume for weight saving, however, the van fully laden with full tanks was only around 3400kg
- The bathroom door catch was a clever magnetic catch, never worked properly, I see Westfalia have changed the design.
- The rear door handle has a strap fitted so that the handle can be reached in an emergency, the strap needs to be perfectly positioned or it stops the top of the door latching.

Mostly niggles that were/are easy to fix.

Nice write up, small point, it’s not a DSG box

 

[Svenhedintony]

Nice write up, small point, it’s not a DSG box

Quite right, glad someone is paying attention

 

[Chainline]

Nice write up, small point, it’s not a DSG box

Have you managed to check out the revised mattrass in the 680?

 

[Jester]

Have you managed to check out the revised mattrass in the 680?

We are on the 3rd week of the prototype as the finished mattress turned up 30 minutes after we left to catch the ferry, but really very much more comfortable will be available in at least x2 levels hard and medium. Currently have been sleeping in 28/32c degrees and not too hot. If you travel with the table stored on the bed you will need to adjust the straps to hold in place, as now as wider mattress, easy really.
Will be back end of November sill call you then for proper chat/review.
Always thought you would go the way of the RP Rebellion. Congrats.

 

[Chainline]

We are on the 3rd week of the prototype as the finished mattress turned up 30 minutes after we left to catch the ferry, but really very much more comfortable will be available in at least x2 levels hard and medium. Currently have been sleeping in 28/32c degrees and not too hot. If you travel with the table stored on the bed you will need to adjust the straps to hold in place, as now as wider mattress, easy really.
Will be back end of November sill call you then for proper chat/review.
Always thought you would go the way of the RP Rebellion. Congrats.

So still away, fantastic. It was RP or GC 4motion and modify it. I can rate the RP at 5T (4.2 from factory now) and it seemed to defeat the object of the factory support to modify the GC (tho potentially more cost effective!) we shall enjoy it for a good while yet.

 

[Wondering Star]

California time, I can give you an insight to
'do I need additional AGM battery '
I purchased a Grand Canyon S two years ago, equipped with diesel heating and compressor fridge.
If you use your vehicle in summer, with solar gain you should be ok with one battery, assuming your not running the heating and your not in 30 degree temperatures .
My van from new had two 95ah AGMs and 200w of solar, however even this would only last two days off grid in winter.
Few days in the lakes last yr, no sun only rain and cold, so heating on for long periods forced a decision to changed to lithium batteries.
No problems since, expensive but a game changer.
Incidentally the compressor fridge is equipped with a night mode button, reduces fridge power slightly giving silent running.

 

[CampervanTime]

That is interesting, thank you. I'm not that familiar with lithium batteries. Do you have any info / links etc? Does the charger need to be changed too?

Thanks

California time, I can give you an insight to
'do I need additional AGM battery '
I purchased a Grand Canyon S two years ago, equipped with diesel heating and compressor fridge.
If you use your vehicle in summer, with solar gain you should be ok with one battery, assuming your not running the heating and your not in 30 degree temperatures .
My van from new had two 95ah AGMs and 200w of solar, however even this would only last two days off grid in winter.
Few days in the lakes last yr, no sun only rain and cold, so heating on for long periods forced a decision to changed to lithium batteries.
No problems since, expensive but a game changer.
Incidentally the compressor fridge is equipped with a night mode button, reduces fridge power slightly giving silent running.

 

[Wondering Star]

Mine were fitted by a company called Roadpro, plenty of info on their website.
Lithium batteries have a number of advantages see above website.
Main disadvantage is cost, although having said that a lithium battery has the potential to last 20 yrs.
Since fitting I now longer carry a EHU lead, on the rare occasion (once in last 18 months) battery levels have become low they can be replenished by running the engine.
Lithium can accept much higher charge rates over AGM batteries so recharge much much quicker.
It really depends on how you use the van.
To fit two Lion lithium batteries a small NDS inverter and votronic monitor cost just under 3k. Took over a day to fit and included upgrading existing wiring compounded by the fact Hymer fit three individual chargers on a factory fit twin AGM set up.
If you plan to tour staying on sites with EHU it doesn't make financial sense but if you tour on basic sites with no electric or stay on Aires it gives you freedom.
Would also recommend Campersales in Burgess Hill, Westfalia/Hymercar dealer.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Mine were fitted by a company called Roadpro, plenty of info on their website.
Lithium batteries have a number of advantages see above website.
Main disadvantage is cost, although having said that a lithium battery has the potential to last 20 yrs.
Since fitting I now longer carry a EHU lead, on the rare occasion (once in last 18 months) battery levels have become low they can be replenished by running the engine.
Lithium can accept much higher charge rates over AGM batteries so recharge much much quicker.
It really depends on how you use the van.
To fit two Lion lithium batteries a small NDS inverter and votronic monitor cost just under 3k. Took over a day to fit and included upgrading existing wiring compounded by the fact Hymer fit three individual chargers on a factory fit twin AGM set up.
If you plan to tour staying on sites with EHU it doesn't make financial sense but if you tour on basic sites with no electric or stay on Aires it gives you freedom.
Would also recommend Campersales in Burgess Hill, Westfalia/Hymercar dealer.

Have you tested the Lithium batteries in cold weather…? I was under the impression they don’t like cold climates?

 

[Wondering Star]

Hi, I've had no problems with mine.
From what I understand the critical factor is the quality of battery and its Battery Management System.
Efficiency of all batteries is reduced in cold weather Lithium is especially sensitive because they charge at much higher rates than lead or AGM.
Therefore the quality of BMS is paramount, a temperature sensor will reduce charge levels if temps drop below -4
In reality do I ever charge at that temp-no.
Charging takes place normally by solar, if your in the Alps in winter in minus temps your BMS will regulate to a low level charge.
The quality of battery and how its fitted is the most important factor with lithium.
I'm happy with my set up and how it was fitted in future if available I would seriously consider factory fit, Hymer offer a range if systems.
Trouble is, and it happened to me with supply short sometimes you have to take what you can and adapt to your needs.

 

[WestySvenHedin]

@Svenhedintony thanks very much for a great reply.

Interesting fridge design then with the compressor under the bed. Did it keep you awake cutting in and out?!

Not really a lot of big issues in there then, sounds like a well sorted design, which I suppose is to be expected given how long they have been making them.

How did you find it build quality wise? I'm not sure if you've had a Cali before but they do tend to squeak, rattle and buzz a lot when you drive around in them. Is the Sven the same? From everything we have read the Sven (Crafter/MAN) is a good van to drive too.

Finally taken delivery of our long-awaited Sven Hedin. It’s been 18 months but we’ll worth the wait - a fabulous camper, very well thought out. Great service from Campersales too.
Attached is the owner manual - I know I’d have been interested to see this while waiting but couldn’t get my hands on one before. I’ve made an e-copy so I don’t lose mine and thought it might be of interest.

 

[CampervanTime]

@WestySvenHedin That is really really helpful, thank you!

We're going to have a look at one at Wandahome next weekend and we're really excited about it. We've had a test drive in a 140 Manual MAN panel van and also a 177 Auto MAN van today too, the 177 Auto was fantastic! Manual is out of the question as Sarah is too short to comfortably use the clutch as the seat base is too long for her. Auto no problem.

What did you go for in your spec out of interest? Could I also be as cheeky to ask if you attempted to get any form of discount, or is that just an absolute no-no with Westy!?

Pics!?!

 

[itscalledbob]

Changed our Cali for a Hymer Grand Canyon 163bhp auto on a Mercedes Sprinter.
Has optional pop top and is just under 6m long.
Transverse bed in rear for adults, body extention pods gives extra width.
I'm 6ft and find it very comfortable.
Kids sleep in massive poptop.
Heating runs on diesel or electric when on hook up (truma 6)
Dont regret it for a minute, although we have purchased a second car as 6m van is not really a daily runner.

The Hymer GC is an absolutely superb van and a great step up from the Cali. The only thing I don’t like is the transverse bed. I moved from the Cali and went for a Knaus Boxdrvie. It’s has the same layout as the VW GC And similar to the Hymer GC but 80cm longer. The extras length accommodates a longitudinal bed and allowed for more storage.

After 2 years in the boxdrive I wanted a 4x4 and thought long and hard over the Hymer GC but due to a lack of storage (compared to the Boxdrive and the bed I went for the Hymer MLT580 4x4.

If however you are happy with the transverse bed and 6m is you cutoff the the Hymer GC is the way to go.

Another point is the Mercedes dash interface (MBUX), is years ahead of the VW discover system.

As for drive ability, the only person who can really answer that is you. Go down to your Vw/ Mercedes’ dealer and take one for a test drive. I’m now in a 7m 4x4 moho and it’s a bit like driving a boat but if you don’t fly about it’s fine. The 190hp pulls like a train and I don’t notice the 9sp auto change gear. it’s all about compromises and trade offs…

 

[WestySvenHedin]

@WestySvenHedin That is really really helpful, thank you!

We're going to have a look at one at Wandahome next weekend and we're really excited about it. We've had a test drive in a 140 Manual MAN panel van and also a 177 Auto MAN van today too, the 177 Auto was fantastic! Manual is out of the question as Sarah is too short to comfortably use the clutch as the seat base is too long for her. Auto no problem.

What did you go for in your spec out of interest? Could I also be as cheeky to ask if you attempted to get any form of discount, or is that just an absolute no-no with Westy!?

Pics!?!

We went with the 140 auto, so far very impressed with the auto gear box - it drives really well, and although too early to say really, but the trip computer had it as 38mpg on the 150 mile journey home, which I was pleasantly surprised by.
In terms of discount, there is very little chance of that! These vans are highly sought after, and to be fair it must be very hard for companies to guess costs with such a long lead time. On the other hand I was very impressed with Campersales, who honoured their commitment to the original agreed price, even though inflation and events had hiked prices in the 18 months since ordering.
Good luck next weekend!

 

[CampervanTime]

@WestySvenHedin brilliant, thank you. That is a smart looking van!

Yes I suspected that re discount, but thought I'd ask given how huge the discounts are on the Grand California at the moment.

Impressive MPG on the drive home, very good. I'm amazed they honoured the price, great service.

Would be interested to hear what you ordered on your spec, did you go for things like Solar, winter package, big skylight, comfort pack, extending table etc?