Having a tipple and avoiding drunk in charge?

[MarkVw2017]

Dear Cali Gurus,

One of the reasons i am getting a cali is because i love the thought of stealth camping with my wife as we work all over the UK.

We love the thought of working hard in the day, then parking up, going for a meal and having a bottle (or two) of wine

So whats the rules to avoid being drunk in charge of a vehicle. Of course i would NEVER drink and drive but would be absolutely gutted to go back for a kip and then get arrested, lose my licence and therefore lose the Cali?

How can you avoid this and prove to the police you have no intention of driving?

PS. "Dont have a drink" replies forbidden

 

[Blueeyedboy]

Hide the keys outside. I think you can get into trouble if you have the keys on you.

 

[MarkVw2017]

Hide the keys outside. I think you can get into trouble if you have the keys on you.

Think it would make me slightly nervous leaving the keys outside in case we woke up and find someone is standing over our bed

 

[ArunAlec]

I think that if you are parked in a public place and are in charge of the vehicle you could end up having to argue your case in court, even if you've hidden keys. Problem with hiding keys when pissed could be remembering where, next morning.

 

[bigmac77]

On a campsite you have nothing to worry about. Stealth camping sounds like you won’t be on any sort of campsite so what do you have in mind? Car parks? Lay-bys? A track in the woods? The only way to avoid a drink drive charge in these situations is not to drink.

 

[MarkVw2017]

Camp bestival

On a campsite you have nothing to worry about. Stealth camping sounds like you won’t be on any sort of campsite so what do you have in mind? Car parks? Lay-bys? A track in the woods? The only way to avoid a drink drive charge in these situations is not to drink.

Not sure,anywhere near a job i suppose. Street most probably. Very surprised you can lose your lience when your not even driving but sleeping. Seems a bizarre rule? Like getting punished for something you 'could' do but not actually doing?

Is it drunk in charge only if you have the intention to drive? Any tips to prove you havehav intention to drive to the police?

 

[GrannyJen]

Dear Cali Gurus,

One of the reasons i am getting a cali is because i love the thought of stealth camping with my wife as we work all over the UK.

We love the thought of working hard in the day, then parking up, going for a meal and having a bottle (or two) of wine

So whats the rules to avoid being drunk in charge of a vehicle. Of course i would NEVER drink and drive but would be absolutely gutted to go back for a kip and then get arrested, lose my licence and therefore lose the Cali?

How can you avoid this and prove to the police you have no intention of driving?

PS. "Dont have a drink" replies forbidden

This is a common question.

A couple of years ago I posted advice that I received from Geoffrey Miller, one of the leading motoring defence lawyers. As I can't find that thread, here goes: from memory:

Drunk in charge is a statutory offence: You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

The spirit of the law is to prevent people pulling over pretending to be asleep and using "I was not driving, only sleeping it off" as a get out from drink-driving.

The likelihood of being prosecuted rests on the "intent to drive" evidence.

In the case of a britstop for example, a pub where by prior arrangement you have decided to overnight in the car park, evidence of "NO INTENT" to drive would rest on prior arrangement with the landlord, keys elsewhere other than in the ignition, the vehicle in not a ready state to drive ... e.g. bed made up and seats turned round, the vehicle having been stationary for a considerable period of time so no hot engine, the person in charge not being so inebriated that they would be unfit to drive in the morning.

The fact is, if you are in charge of the vehicle, which by being in possession of the keys you are, and you are over the limit, then you are drunk in charge. You have to be able to offer reasonable evidence of no intent. This is where common sense comes into play. If you are parked where you may have need to move on.... eg, a lay-by on a public road, your choice to have a drink may lead to you being nicked. In the case of a Britstop, as a golden example, where you are likely to be in a pub car park to which the public have freedom of access therefore as good as on a public road, your arrangements to overnight and the clear evidence of intent not to drive would diminish the likelihood massively of a) getting nicked and b) the CPS deciding to go ahead with the prosecution.

At the end of the day, your choice, your responsibility but I personally have never had any problems with overnighting in a pub car park and feeling intimidated by the law from having a drink.

 

[MarkVw2017]

This is a common question.

A couple of years ago I posted advice that I received from Geoffrey Miller, one of the leading motoring defence lawyers. As I can't find that thread, here goes: from memory:

Drunk in charge is a statutory offence: You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

The spirit of the law is to prevent people pulling over pretending to be asleep and using "I was not driving, only sleeping it off" as a get out from drink-driving.

The likelihood of being prosecuted rests on the "intent to drive" evidence.

In the case of a britstop for example, a pub where by prior arrangement you have decided to overnight in the car park, evidence of "NO INTENT" to drive would rest on prior arrangement with the landlord, keys elsewhere other than in the ignition, the vehicle in not a ready state to drive ... e.g. bed made up and seats turned round, the vehicle having been stationary for a considerable period of time so no hot engine, the person in charge not being so inebriated that they would be unfit to drive in the morning.

The fact is, if you are in charge of the vehicle, which by being in possession of the keys you are, and you are over the limit, then you are drunk in charge. You have to be able to offer reasonable evidence of no intent. This is where common sense comes into play. If you are parked where you may have need to move on.... eg, a lay-by on a public road, your choice to have a drink may lead to you being nicked. In the case of a Britstop, as a golden example, where you are likely to be in a pub car park to which the public have freedom of access therefore as good as on a public road, your arrangements to overnight and the clear evidence of intent not to drive would diminish the likelihood massively of a) getting nicked and b) the CPS deciding to go ahead with the prosecution.

At the end of the day, your choice, your responsibility but I personally have never had any problems with overnighting in a pub car park and feeling intimidated by the law from having a drink.

Thanks @GrannyJen .Great reply!!! Didnt even think of peiple using that excuse with the "im not drinking, im sleeping" but suppose that makes sense. Might have to swap the wine for a coffee or just use a campsite instead!

 

[GrannyJen]

Thanks @GrannyJen .Great reply!!! Didnt even think of peiple using that excuse with the "im not drinking, im sleeping" but suppose that makes sense. Might have to swap the wine for a coffee or just use a campsite instead!

Use a Britstop or a pub stop over. When you park up make sure the serving staff, and any nosey customers, know you are there by prior arrangement with the intent of overnighting. Make the bed up before having a drink. In some way, eg swivelling the seats and raising the roof, make sure that the vehicle is not immediately drivable.

As Geoffrey Miller said to me. "Unlikely the police with that evidence would arrest, even more unlikely the CPS would prosecute if they did and if it still goes pear-shaped we would love the opportunity to defend

 

[MarkVw2017]

All brilliant hints. Thank you!

 

[EddieEagle]

all very well until the morning after
be cautious of driving off in the morning after a skin-full

 

[GrannyJen]

all very well until the morning after
be cautious of driving off in the morning after a skin-full

A worthy caution.

The Scottish police, when they changed their drink drive threshold, descended en-masse at the A74 truck stop and at 2am "offered a voluntary breathalyser" to every trucker there. They then took the readings and advised each trucker that with the new limits at what time they should NOT think about driving.

Result was a lot of truckers being late for their deliveries

However, what a brilliant piece of pro-active policing.

Personally I abhor drink driving, I love a glass of wine, I enjoy my freedom to drink, but FFS don't let drink influence your driving.

 

[Moakesy]

It's threads like these that make me love this forum...

Genuine question, with good honest and well informed replies.

Even though I pretty much always use campsites, on the off-chance I'd end up camping elsewhere in the future, I know exactly where I'd stand should I go to a pub for a drink and meal.

 

[MarkVw2017]

A worthy caution.

The Scottish police, when they changed their drink drive threshold, descended en-masse at the A74 truck stop and at 2am "offered a voluntary breathalyser" to every trucker there. They then took the readings and advised each trucker that with the new limits at what time they should NOT think about driving.

Result was a lot of truckers being late for their deliveries

However, what a brilliant piece of pro-active policing.

Personally I abhor drink driving, I love a glass of wine, I enjoy my freedom to drink, but FFS don't let drink influence your driving.

Same hear, i would never drink and drive thats why i like the thought of a Cali to sleep it off a few glasses of wine before the morning. Losing my license wouod ruin my whole way of life and work hence thought getting a cali and sleeping was very 'sensible' and groengup thing to do but seems that can regarded to be just as bad, even if you have no intention of driving whatsoever. I suppose it just comes down to what police person you get and which ones have commom sense.

 

[T6 CFO]

Previous thread.

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/drink-and-sleeping-in-a-california.11970/


Mike

 

[Bill R]

I think this situation also should be seen in the context of current policing numbers & priorities. I'm not sure you're ever going to get a police officer knock on your Cali door and have the conversation to be honest

 

[MarkVw2017]

I think this situation also should be seen in the context of current policing numbers & priorities. I'm not sure you're ever going to get a police officer knock on your Cali door and have the conversation to be honest

True, can imagine they have amillion and one ither jobs to do! But also could be an easy arrest stat for them as well i suppose!

 

[bigmac77]

I think this situation also should be seen in the context of current policing numbers & priorities. I'm not sure you're ever going to get a police officer knock on your Cali door and have the conversation to be honest

Maybe but is it worth the risk when so much rides upon having a driving licence?

 

[T6 CFO]

True, can imagine they have amillion and one ither jobs to do! But also could be an easy arrest stat for them as well i suppose!

Then you suppose wrong. Do you really believe they want to improve stats by arresting Cali owners having a kip in their van after a drink.


Mike

 

[Stoneybroke]

Not wanting to disagree with granny, but it is not about intent, it is about likelihood of driving whilst over the limit.
To defend yourself against a charge of drink in charge, you have to prove, on the balance of probabilities, that that there was no likelihood of you driving vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit.
Therein lies the problem... Do you KNOW what your blood alcohol level is? Can you be sure that you claim of not driving until after breakfast means that you will have dropped below the limit?
The Police will have expert calculations to sea what that Level will be, based on the level when breathalysed, weight, time, what you claim to have had, etc.
That said, they have to have a reason to breathalyse, and there are only three reasons - driver committing moving traffic offence, involved in a road accident, or suspicion of alcohol. Since the only power of entry to breathalyse is after an injury road traffic accident, you could just sleep tight...

 

[MarkVw2017]

Then you suppose wrong. Do you really believe they want to improve stats by arresting Cali owners having a kip in their van after a drink.


Mike

Hi Mike,

Honestly dont know, would hope not but its sad to hear people losong their licence's when they are genuinely just trying to get some shut eye with no intention of driving

 

[GillianC]

Stay on sites or in pub car parks and use something like this to make sure you are ok the next morning
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001LZ3D02/?tag=eliteelect-21
ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1536094646&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=breathalysers&dpPl=1&dpID=51yQbcfmLlL&ref=plSrch

 

[MarkVw2017]

Not wanting to disagree with granny, but it is not about intent, it is about likelihood of driving whilst over the limit.
To defend yourself against a charge of drink in charge, you have to prove, on the balance of probabilities, that that there was no likelihood of you driving vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit.
Therein lies the problem... Do you KNOW what your blood alcohol level is? Can you be sure that you claim of not driving until after breakfast means that you will have dropped below the limit?
The Police will have expert calculations to sea what that Level will be, based on the level when breathalysed, weight, time, what you claim to have had, etc.
That said, they have to have a reason to breathalyse, and there are only three reasons - driver committing moving traffic offence, involved in a road accident, or suspicion of alcohol. Since the only power of entry to breathalyse is after an injury road traffic accident, you could just sleep tight...

Well suppose "suspicion of alcohol" wouod be an easy one to say

 

[Stoneybroke]

Well suppose "suspicion of alcohol" wouod be an easy one to say

The law says reasonably suspects, so there has to be some grounds on which to build that suspicion - smell, behaviour, slurred speech, bottles everywhere, etc.

 

[Skylark2.0]

Stay on Brit stops or certified locations.
For a minimal charge it's not worth the risk or bother.