Calimili
Oh I see, the interior alarm, I don't have that so now that you explain it makes sense thx. If I'm awake the key is always in my pocket.
Ladymuck
VIP Member
Thanks, glad you said this, just ordered by mine without rear aircon and was starting to worry !
BeagleMum
Top Poster
VIP Member
3 Zone was a must for us, travelling with 2 dogs on the rear seat. Agree about the ‘rest’ feature it can be very useful.
Claremacrob
VIP Member
That's good to know. We let our 9-yr old choose the colour and he went cherry red. I hope I feel the same as you when it arrives!
Toothlessjon
Lifetime VIP Member
I spent a lot of time choosing between ocean and polo. Almost bought the Polo, but the mercedes service levels In all the dealerships I dealt with bar 1 were the worst of any company I’ve ever dealt with and I’ve dealt with a lot! So I didnt place my order and went and bought the Ocean. Now I have used the
ocean I can see some of the pluses I thought the Marco had would have turned out to be a negative for me personally. Eg white leather seats, looks great but just not practical at all for my use. Electric rear seats, every polo I tried had problems with the rear seats. However, waiting for them to move into place would get tiresome real quick. Much prefer the speedy way the Ocean seats move back and forth. The Ocean is slightly longer I think by around 100mm. doesn't sound a lot but for me, it’s meant a lot. In a small vehicle every inch matters. But with the ocean I would now have preferred a manual roof, again to me it’s just quicker to throw it up And less chance of a breakdown. Also love the 4 wheel drive, which wasn’t available on the Polo at the time.
Thats my quick thought for what it’s worth, good look with your purchase.
ocean I can see some of the pluses I thought the Marco had would have turned out to be a negative for me personally. Eg white leather seats, looks great but just not practical at all for my use. Electric rear seats, every polo I tried had problems with the rear seats. However, waiting for them to move into place would get tiresome real quick. Much prefer the speedy way the Ocean seats move back and forth. The Ocean is slightly longer I think by around 100mm. doesn't sound a lot but for me, it’s meant a lot. In a small vehicle every inch matters. But with the ocean I would now have preferred a manual roof, again to me it’s just quicker to throw it up And less chance of a breakdown. Also love the 4 wheel drive, which wasn’t available on the Polo at the time.
Thats my quick thought for what it’s worth, good look with your purchase.
The Merle
4x4 joker
Super Poster
Lifetime VIP Member
If I was you I would go hire a camper, any just to make sure it’s for you before you spend that sort of cash!
john eagle
Eaglehead
Why not rent one to try before you buy
2into1
Née T4WFA. Now without Cali :(
Super Poster
Lifetime VIP Member
The MP is a foot longer than the Cali, a bigger difference and the other way around.
Devaprem
Before I bought my almost like new Cali Ocean, I enquired on lead time at the local VW dealer. He quoted 16 weeks, which surprised me. The (non VW) dealer I bought mine from had said that he was surprised by that, having bought two Cali's in the past and waiting 6 months for them. Having enquired about other vehicles from new at other places (that would then be converted), this lead time makes sense. There are posts elsewhere on this forum where members have mentioned delays in their order too. Also, in the event of a hard Brexit, there will possibly be a rise in price and a possibly a delay in delivery too. My advice would be to go for a low mileage used one. I saw some low mileage Calis out there when looking.
H
HowardLeC
Hey there.
Good questions that I've gone through and ended up with another one to all those you've mentioned. Westfalia KEPLER 1, based on the VW T6.1 Best layout, best space, good compromises from Cali (which I had before and dislike the layout)
BeagleMum
Top Poster
VIP Member
We liked the look of the Westfalia Kepler 1, if we had wanted a kitchen/wardrobe it would have definitely been a contender. Be good to see some photos
rovers
I have just sold my early T6 ocean and ordered an nugget.
I sold the Cali because-
-Roof rot was growing quick and the dealer said it wouldn’t rot as it had the ‘fix’
-I found the engine re calibration for the emissions recall crude (I’ve worked in diesel engine calibration)
-a couple of other issues that they wouldn’t fix at the end of warranty where still apparent, (door seal rust etc) the one seal they had changed meant my seatbelt height now longer adjusted.
-got a great cash sale price at a dealer
My experience with some Dealers & VW finance didn’t encourage me to spend more on a T6.1
I have gone for a nugget as
-I want a manual
-transit is a better drive, seat position, turning circle, transmission etc
-wesfallia are not new to campers or transits
-some of the dealers want to assert themselves as good camper dealers
-they are doing good discounts and 0% finance
-looking forward to trying the ‘Junior motor home’ layout
I sold the Cali because-
-Roof rot was growing quick and the dealer said it wouldn’t rot as it had the ‘fix’
-I found the engine re calibration for the emissions recall crude (I’ve worked in diesel engine calibration)
-a couple of other issues that they wouldn’t fix at the end of warranty where still apparent, (door seal rust etc) the one seal they had changed meant my seatbelt height now longer adjusted.
-got a great cash sale price at a dealer
My experience with some Dealers & VW finance didn’t encourage me to spend more on a T6.1
I have gone for a nugget as
-I want a manual
-transit is a better drive, seat position, turning circle, transmission etc
-wesfallia are not new to campers or transits
-some of the dealers want to assert themselves as good camper dealers
-they are doing good discounts and 0% finance
-looking forward to trying the ‘Junior motor home’ layout
L
Lewes
Hi Thepuma, had all the same conversations with myself and eventually took the plunge! Ordered a new Ocean last month. Once the decision is made it’s great to relax and go into sweet anticipation mode!Best of luck.
westfalia
Tranny is way better to drive and the seat is more comfy than Vw.
I got a 34% discount on a Custom sport a couple of yrs ago,
my mate who is a Ford dealer couldn't answer as to why they don't
just lower the list price, he said that some customers are happy with
10 or 15%, its only greedy ba****ds like me who push it.
He could've given 2% more if i took finance out at 2.75% Lol.
H
Hoftha
- Messages
- 4
Coast: switch the manual roof to a pro (lot of problems with the Ocean roof) and also the missing open frontroof window is a pro imo. Less weak points (zipper/leaking)
Had an ocean switched to coast and absolutely do not regret. (Added some ocean specs as f ex. heating and acc)
Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
D
Darrel Crilley
I have owned two out of your three contenders plus a Caravelle 4 motion for 4 years as a family car. I even had a 2007 MP before my current 2018 model. My views:
1. Rear kitchen in Nugget is superb. You will cook and enjoy it. Since you do not have kids on board you may not suffer terribly because of loss of boot space . Don’t underestimate how much goes behind the bench. The kitchen is much easier and pleasanter to use than in any side slung van. This is not just a reflection of standing front-on. The L shaped arrangement is just ergonomically better than being at 90 degrees. The contortions of table/ drawer and sink in a side-slung kitchenette are banished.
2. MP is undoubtedly longer than the California. There is a critical foot of extra space when pulling out the bottom bunk.
3. The bed in the MP is lightweight and designed for ventilation. It’s not as robust as a Cali top bunk but it is v comfortable and does not suffer condensation because there is no 6 ft x 4 ft board right under the foam mattress.
4. The MP is just great to drive esp 250 variant. I was genuinely surprised. I had my 2007 model. It did not drive well. My Caravelke was damned good. I did not expect the MP to be better to drive but it is. It’s lower at the front, more aerodynamic and stays pretty flat through twisty stuff. Rear wheel drive seems to suit vans.
5.So far , 2.5 yrs on and 2 yrs in the old MP neither pop top has caused any trouble. The ribbed concertina construction is tried and tested to avoid trapping canvass accidents. Westfalia were installing it before VW produced their first own brand model. It’s definitely a case of hardly ever breaking and do they have not filled with it in more than two decades.
5. The chairs ‘bag’ in the MP is silly. Mine is in a wardrobe. The table sits happily under the rear shelf. I have two Vango chairs weighing 1 kg each in lieu of the bulbous chairs in the bag. The Westfalia table is probably tougher than the VW table.
6. The rear bench in the MP is superb. There is no more comfortable passenger bench in a camper. My late teenagers enjoy 1000 mile trips in a generous, rake adjustable seat. If you have no passengers the simplicity of the VW bench is preferable.
7. Cabinetry is about equivalent. Both need much more care and cosseting than the Westfalias of the 90s and early 2000s. The nugget will ( and did in our case) withstand more hammer/ scuffs.
8. You must get the heater options right on a MP. The Cali equivalent blown air diesel heater is an option poorly understood even now by UK dealers. Do not confuse it with the auxiliary heater which is part of the car , controlled via the car system. In the used and demonstrator market virtually no one was specifying the blown air heater. This was utter folly in the UK. In the Ocean it has always been standard. Check the Westfalia control console for the heater element and confirm it is there. I am lucky to have a model which had both systems fitted. Do not think the car aux system is a substitute or variant: it is not. It will only run for a shorter period of time.
My advice is keep an open mind and try them. I was rather fixated on an Ocean 4 motion for the Alps. I am pleased I opened my eyes and at least tried the MP. I have had many vans over 20 years as my kids have grown . This is , by a furlong, the best driving experience and we do not hesitate to use it for all manner of shorter everyday journeys.
1. Rear kitchen in Nugget is superb. You will cook and enjoy it. Since you do not have kids on board you may not suffer terribly because of loss of boot space . Don’t underestimate how much goes behind the bench. The kitchen is much easier and pleasanter to use than in any side slung van. This is not just a reflection of standing front-on. The L shaped arrangement is just ergonomically better than being at 90 degrees. The contortions of table/ drawer and sink in a side-slung kitchenette are banished.
2. MP is undoubtedly longer than the California. There is a critical foot of extra space when pulling out the bottom bunk.
3. The bed in the MP is lightweight and designed for ventilation. It’s not as robust as a Cali top bunk but it is v comfortable and does not suffer condensation because there is no 6 ft x 4 ft board right under the foam mattress.
4. The MP is just great to drive esp 250 variant. I was genuinely surprised. I had my 2007 model. It did not drive well. My Caravelke was damned good. I did not expect the MP to be better to drive but it is. It’s lower at the front, more aerodynamic and stays pretty flat through twisty stuff. Rear wheel drive seems to suit vans.
5.So far , 2.5 yrs on and 2 yrs in the old MP neither pop top has caused any trouble. The ribbed concertina construction is tried and tested to avoid trapping canvass accidents. Westfalia were installing it before VW produced their first own brand model. It’s definitely a case of hardly ever breaking and do they have not filled with it in more than two decades.
5. The chairs ‘bag’ in the MP is silly. Mine is in a wardrobe. The table sits happily under the rear shelf. I have two Vango chairs weighing 1 kg each in lieu of the bulbous chairs in the bag. The Westfalia table is probably tougher than the VW table.
6. The rear bench in the MP is superb. There is no more comfortable passenger bench in a camper. My late teenagers enjoy 1000 mile trips in a generous, rake adjustable seat. If you have no passengers the simplicity of the VW bench is preferable.
7. Cabinetry is about equivalent. Both need much more care and cosseting than the Westfalias of the 90s and early 2000s. The nugget will ( and did in our case) withstand more hammer/ scuffs.
8. You must get the heater options right on a MP. The Cali equivalent blown air diesel heater is an option poorly understood even now by UK dealers. Do not confuse it with the auxiliary heater which is part of the car , controlled via the car system. In the used and demonstrator market virtually no one was specifying the blown air heater. This was utter folly in the UK. In the Ocean it has always been standard. Check the Westfalia control console for the heater element and confirm it is there. I am lucky to have a model which had both systems fitted. Do not think the car aux system is a substitute or variant: it is not. It will only run for a shorter period of time.
My advice is keep an open mind and try them. I was rather fixated on an Ocean 4 motion for the Alps. I am pleased I opened my eyes and at least tried the MP. I have had many vans over 20 years as my kids have grown . This is , by a furlong, the best driving experience and we do not hesitate to use it for all manner of shorter everyday journeys.
C
Calidocious
I was looking at a Nugget, Cali and Widax Pulsar. I have so far concluded that the Cali is by far the most versatile which means you can use it for many activities and get the full value from it. Day trips to the beach, camping, wild camping and even trips to the tip or moving stuff around. What you don’t want to do is buy something at huge expense which you will only use a couple of time a year. There is always a reason to use a Cali.
GrannyJen
Super Poster
Lifetime VIP Member
4 hours ago there was something straight out of an Ealing comedy movie.
I'm replacing the carpet in my dining room. A friend wanted what was already there. Friend and Royal Marine son turn up. He ends up with a roll of carpet over his shoulder about twice the length of the Cali.
No problem. Back seat fully forward, bed flat, roll bent in half, carpet shoved in the back with true bootneck finesse, and son and carpet delivered with him sitting in passenger seat with a roll of carpet pressed against his ear.
Amazing the versatility of a Cali. Today a removal van, Three days time it is my palace on wheels and luxury bedroom for a week.
Karlos
I would spec Cherry Red now White is an extra, wonder what VW will think of next to squeeze another few hundred quid out of us.
J
JayBob
Hi Thepuma,
I had a similar conundrum and had spent entirely too much time trying to decide, so maybe I can help a little... For what it’s worth, I’ve bought a Marco Polo, but I’ve rented both the Ocean and the Beach several times (prior to and also alongside the MP - for an extended family trip).
My general conclusion is that my attitude and willingness to „get over” the tiny annoyances was weighing much more on my satisfaction than any differences between the vehicles. Months after buying the MP I was still discovering new „pros” and „cons” compared to the VWs - all irrelevant in the grand scheme of things - you find solutions as you live with the vehicle and learn to enjoy what it offers. Examples of the pros of the MP and solutions to the cons:
- placement of chairs in the MP - I’ve removed the trunk tray for chairs and replaced them with more comfortable Decathlon chairs that fold into a 1m tube shape - take very little space (laterally behind / below the rear bench), trunk is now fully usable; you can also place the original Merc chairs vertically behind the reach bench (there is a 15cm foldable segment of the rear bed/shelf that can be unzipped and removed or folded back, creating a very useful space to transport taller items vertically behind the rear seats)
- „better drive” of the MP vs Cali - I’ve driven both and they’re both very comfortable on long drives, tiny difference in refinement in favour of the MP, but not really noticeable once you drive instead of comparing
- MP being luxurious is mentioned both as an advantage and a disadvantage - I find it’s mostly a matter of taste (it can go a little against the „camping” geist), and things like leather, smooth „glossy” surfaces are very useable (easy to wipe) as well as cosy; ambient lighting is really great and gives a really nice feel; but there are some cons - the nice soft close kitchen drawers can collide with the unfolded bed, nice „yacht” floor is resistant and easy to wipe, but floor rails need rubber inserts to keep dirt away (original accessory)
- rear side window in MP can be opened/tilted - super useful as additional ventilation when sleeping downstairs, less fussy than various acccessories allowing to lock the hatch slightly open; Cali feels more like a „closed can” in comparison, using it in the summer I felt like the additional opening window in the RHS sliding door is a must and ventilation while sleeping downstairs is not optimal - and popping the roof up is not always convenient, especially when trying to be discrete
- reach hatch window in MP can be opened independently - a real bonus for views, another ventilation option, rear access
- new MPs (2020+) do have the front window option in the pop top
- MP residual values are excellent and in line with VW in Germany (that’s where I bought mine) - don’t know UK market prices
- you can have a 4WD MP with 5th seat (this was my main need when buying); the 4WD is permanent - tried and tested in the backroads of Norwegian mountains - really useful
- the 5th seat is very useable without adjusting anything - the cabin has visibly more space inside than the Cali, also nice if you travel with a dog
- the electric rear bench in the MP seems like a fuss, but easy to get used to and works well, also has a side benefit of having 2 independently adjustable backrests
- the real con I found with the MP is the lack of the third battery (second leisure battery) when wild camping for more than 2-3 days - Ocean (but not Beach) is better in that respect; not a deal breaker as a short drive tops up the battery quickly; a solar panel could also be a partial solution
- a useful option on VWs not available on the MP - heated windscreen - turned out to be a real life saver in winter in Norway, during a long trip with a heavy melting-freezing snowfall
- real surpise: my 4WD 190hp MP needed visibly less fuel than a 150hp 2WD Beach when we drove both side-by-side on a long trip, both packed and driven comparably
All in all, I find both VWs and Mercs are excellent vehicles and campers. I could easily live with both. The Merc service is better than VWs where I live, although hard to find real experts with campervans - same seems to hold true elsewhere judging by the forums. I don’t have any experience with the Nugget. MPs get criticised for their visual „bling” and lack of „camping practicality” and I have initially struggled with the luxury image as well, but have now spent many weeks camping with the MP - both on campings and wild camping, in four seasons - and it’s not only usable, it’s really functional and easy to live with. Both have pros and cons, but I would focus on things you must have (it was the 5th seat and 4wd for me) and choose the one that fits the „must haves” best. Then simply accept the rest and enjoy
Hope this helps.
Good luck with your choice - and happy camping!
JB
I had a similar conundrum and had spent entirely too much time trying to decide, so maybe I can help a little... For what it’s worth, I’ve bought a Marco Polo, but I’ve rented both the Ocean and the Beach several times (prior to and also alongside the MP - for an extended family trip).
My general conclusion is that my attitude and willingness to „get over” the tiny annoyances was weighing much more on my satisfaction than any differences between the vehicles. Months after buying the MP I was still discovering new „pros” and „cons” compared to the VWs - all irrelevant in the grand scheme of things - you find solutions as you live with the vehicle and learn to enjoy what it offers. Examples of the pros of the MP and solutions to the cons:
- placement of chairs in the MP - I’ve removed the trunk tray for chairs and replaced them with more comfortable Decathlon chairs that fold into a 1m tube shape - take very little space (laterally behind / below the rear bench), trunk is now fully usable; you can also place the original Merc chairs vertically behind the reach bench (there is a 15cm foldable segment of the rear bed/shelf that can be unzipped and removed or folded back, creating a very useful space to transport taller items vertically behind the rear seats)
- „better drive” of the MP vs Cali - I’ve driven both and they’re both very comfortable on long drives, tiny difference in refinement in favour of the MP, but not really noticeable once you drive instead of comparing
- MP being luxurious is mentioned both as an advantage and a disadvantage - I find it’s mostly a matter of taste (it can go a little against the „camping” geist), and things like leather, smooth „glossy” surfaces are very useable (easy to wipe) as well as cosy; ambient lighting is really great and gives a really nice feel; but there are some cons - the nice soft close kitchen drawers can collide with the unfolded bed, nice „yacht” floor is resistant and easy to wipe, but floor rails need rubber inserts to keep dirt away (original accessory)
- rear side window in MP can be opened/tilted - super useful as additional ventilation when sleeping downstairs, less fussy than various acccessories allowing to lock the hatch slightly open; Cali feels more like a „closed can” in comparison, using it in the summer I felt like the additional opening window in the RHS sliding door is a must and ventilation while sleeping downstairs is not optimal - and popping the roof up is not always convenient, especially when trying to be discrete
- reach hatch window in MP can be opened independently - a real bonus for views, another ventilation option, rear access
- new MPs (2020+) do have the front window option in the pop top
- MP residual values are excellent and in line with VW in Germany (that’s where I bought mine) - don’t know UK market prices
- you can have a 4WD MP with 5th seat (this was my main need when buying); the 4WD is permanent - tried and tested in the backroads of Norwegian mountains - really useful
- the 5th seat is very useable without adjusting anything - the cabin has visibly more space inside than the Cali, also nice if you travel with a dog
- the electric rear bench in the MP seems like a fuss, but easy to get used to and works well, also has a side benefit of having 2 independently adjustable backrests
- the real con I found with the MP is the lack of the third battery (second leisure battery) when wild camping for more than 2-3 days - Ocean (but not Beach) is better in that respect; not a deal breaker as a short drive tops up the battery quickly; a solar panel could also be a partial solution
- a useful option on VWs not available on the MP - heated windscreen - turned out to be a real life saver in winter in Norway, during a long trip with a heavy melting-freezing snowfall
- real surpise: my 4WD 190hp MP needed visibly less fuel than a 150hp 2WD Beach when we drove both side-by-side on a long trip, both packed and driven comparably
All in all, I find both VWs and Mercs are excellent vehicles and campers. I could easily live with both. The Merc service is better than VWs where I live, although hard to find real experts with campervans - same seems to hold true elsewhere judging by the forums. I don’t have any experience with the Nugget. MPs get criticised for their visual „bling” and lack of „camping practicality” and I have initially struggled with the luxury image as well, but have now spent many weeks camping with the MP - both on campings and wild camping, in four seasons - and it’s not only usable, it’s really functional and easy to live with. Both have pros and cons, but I would focus on things you must have (it was the 5th seat and 4wd for me) and choose the one that fits the „must haves” best. Then simply accept the rest and enjoy
Hope this helps.
Good luck with your choice - and happy camping!
JB
2into1
Née T4WFA. Now without Cali :(
Super Poster
Lifetime VIP Member
This is a light hearted post but has grains of truth in it. Some of it I've posted before.
The Cali / Marco Polo / Nugget each have discrete images. If you are confident in your self image and know what details will work for you, then great (I drove around in a T4 Smurf 'Ice Cream' van for a while).
The Cali makes you look like you're just returning from scaling Ben Nevis even if you've just nipped to Tesco. Don the obligatory down jacket for extra effect.
In the MP, people will assume you've been collected from the airport from a trip to Dubai, popping in at Selfridges en-route. I did have a different explanation involving wife swapping....
Although this is harsh, it feels particularly true in the UK where it is a shiny newcomer without the camping heritage of VW's.
The Nugget looks like you can't afford either a Cali or a MP. This is massively unfair and if I was buying today, I'd get a High top Nugget, as I don't care about image.
The Cali / Marco Polo / Nugget each have discrete images. If you are confident in your self image and know what details will work for you, then great (I drove around in a T4 Smurf 'Ice Cream' van for a while).
The Cali makes you look like you're just returning from scaling Ben Nevis even if you've just nipped to Tesco. Don the obligatory down jacket for extra effect.
In the MP, people will assume you've been collected from the airport from a trip to Dubai, popping in at Selfridges en-route. I did have a different explanation involving wife swapping....
Although this is harsh, it feels particularly true in the UK where it is a shiny newcomer without the camping heritage of VW's.
The Nugget looks like you can't afford either a Cali or a MP. This is massively unfair and if I was buying today, I'd get a High top Nugget, as I don't care about image.
Blue Yonder
VIP Member
First choice California, Second Ford Nugget. MP would be a non starter for me. The exterior of the Vitto makes for a nice looking people carrier but not a Camper Van. The roof line looks weird if an awning is fitted. The "hearing aid" beige interior IMO seems to be suited for the more mature owners.
R
reggie59
I have a quote for a nugget. It is 63k for the 185 auto. Issues is manual aircon is 1000. Satnav is 1000 and xenon is 1000. So total is 66k. Way more than the ocean.
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