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WelshGas said:
I'm not a Legal expert but WHY?

All VW have to do before you finalise the purchase is to inform you of a change in the Advertised MPG and CO2/N2O figures and ask if you are prepared to accept this change. If the Answer is NO then you get your Deposit back. If the Answer is YES then you get title to the vehicle and that is that.

The ONLY people who, In my Opinion are entitled to compensation are those you had a Guaranteed Delivery Date which has been delayed due to this Problem. How many had a Guaranteed Delivery Date in writing? Very few I bet.

Another group who could be in line for Compensation are those already in procession of a T6 bought with the originally specified MPG and Emissions who now see their vehicles re-categorised - Maybe.

Another question. What if it had gone the other way - Improved MPG and Emissions. Would those awaiting delivery be happy and be prepared to pay More for their cleaner vehicles? I doubt it.

And lastly, Hand on Heart, how many buyers would admit that MPG and Emissions was a deciding factor in their purchase of a VW California?

Over the lifetime of my vehicle I will spend an extra £1000 on fuel and generate 10% more pollution. That is worthy of some consideration in my books

Possibly True, but consideration by YOU not VW. If you say NO then these non-registered vehicles will go onto the forecourt at full price. VW will not lose out in the longterm looking at the lead times for new orders.
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I tend to agree with this - As annoying as this whole process has been, all I really feel that I am entitled to do if I'm not happy with the new emissions data is to cancel my order and get my deposit back and forget about the whole sorry saga.

However I think a good will gesture (however unlikely) would go a long way at this time - free bike rack would be nice!
 
Blue Yonder said:
Over the lifetime of my vehicle I will spend an extra £1000 on fuel and generate 10% more pollution. That is worthy of some consideration in my books
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If anyone used that as a case for compensation against VW.....VW would think the person was nuts & likely call for the men in white coats.....
 
WelshGas said:
I'm not a Legal expert but WHY?

All VW have to do before you finalise the purchase is to inform you of a change in the Advertised MPG and CO2/N2O figures and ask if you are prepared to accept this change. If the Answer is NO then you get your Deposit back. If the Answer is YES then you get title to the vehicle and that is that.

The ONLY people who, In my Opinion are entitled to compensation are those you had a Guaranteed Delivery Date which has been delayed due to this Problem. How many had a Guaranteed Delivery Date in writing? Very few I bet.

Another group who could be in line for Compensation are those already in procession of a T6 bought with the originally specified MPG and Emissions who now see their vehicles re-categorised - Maybe.

Another question. What if it had gone the other way - Improved MPG and Emissions. Would those awaiting delivery be happy and be prepared to pay More for their cleaner vehicles? I doubt it.

And lastly, Hand on Heart, how many buyers would admit that MPG and Emissions was a deciding factor in their purchase of a VW California?

Over the lifetime of my vehicle I will spend an extra £1000 on fuel and generate 10% more pollution. That is worthy of some consideration in my books

Possibly True, but consideration by YOU not VW. If you say NO then these non-registered vehicles will go onto the forecourt at full price. VW will not lose out in the longterm looking at the lead times for new orders.
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Regardless of whether the mpg and emission have got worse due to the “fix” or whether they where always incorrect the vehicle being supplied is not to the specification they was stated at the time we entered into contract [paid a deposit]. As I keep stating VW are as a result in breach of contract. A company in breach of contract cannot simply put in the position you were in before the contract existed. That is they cannot simply give you back your deposit and cancel your order. This is true even if VW believe they can or have a condition in the contract that says they can. A company cannot override contract law with their clauses. True you could roll over and accept the van as is or even choose to cancel your order. However, if you choose not to then the company in breach of the contract has to make a fair and reasonable offer to the agrieved party to reflect the goods are no longer to the quality specified. With regards to the item being better quality than specified. No of course the party supplying the goods cannot legally demand more money as a result. With regards to whether mpg and emissions was a deciding factor. This does not matter The facts remain the same, it just seems that you are happy to accept the goods as is. Bye the way has anyone at VWCS actually confirmed they are shipping and given permssion to the VW Dealerships to register them? Check out ‘loss of bargain’ and ‘loss of bennit’ contract law. Then tell me I wrong. Check my previous contributions to this thread and you will find I have been right so far, unfortunately!
 
andyinluton said:
I doubt you will use any more fuel than previously, the only change is to the calculated consumption & emissions in the document. Ie the document is probably slightly closer to the truth than before.
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You may be right but I find it very difficult to believe that it is so simple. If it was, would it have taken some 3 months to sort the documentation out even allowing for bureaucracy? I assume from all that's been said that emission regulations were not met not just incorrect documentation. If that's the case then VW would have tinkered with the software and that may have led to outcomes such as increased fuel consumption and hence the revised figures. A lot of conjecture. It would be great to have a few facts eh :(
 
Blue Yonder said:
Regardless of whether the mpg and emission have got worse due to the “fix” or whether they where always incorrect the vehicle being supplied is not to the specification they was stated at the time we entered into contract [paid a deposit]. As I keep stating VW are as a result in breach of contract. A company in breach of contract cannot simply put in the position you were in before the contract existed. That is they cannot simply give you back your deposit and cancel your order. This is true even if VW believe they can or have a condition in the contract that says they can. A company cannot override contract law with their clauses. True you could roll over and accept the van as is or even choose to cancel your order. However, if you choose not to then the company in breach of the contract has to make a fair and reasonable offer to the agrieved party to reflect the goods are no longer to the quality specified. With regards to the item being better quality than specified. No of course the party supplying the goods cannot legally demand more money as a result. With regards to whether mpg and emissions was a deciding factor. This does not matter The facts remain the same, it just seems that you are happy to accept the goods as is. Bye the way has anyone at VWCS actually confirmed they are shipping and given permssion to the VW Dealerships to register them? Check out ‘loss of bargain’ and ‘loss of bennit’ contract law. Then tell me I wrong. Check my previous contributions to this thread and you will find I have been right so far, unfortunately!
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You make a good case Blue Yonder, and my recollection of contract law is very hazy, so will VW's obligation depend on whether the figures in the brochure are deemed to be part of the offer that formed the contract, or merely an invitation to treat (like a sign displaying a price in-store)? If it's the former then they'd be in breach of contract (regardless of how miffed we are/aren't by the figures being wrong) but if it's the latter then presumably the figures wouldn't form part of the contract. Not that I particularly care personally, I JUST WANT MY CAR!!! but it may affect those thinking they have a right to cancel/compensation. What do you think?
 
It would be better for all if VW would put out an explanation of the reason and fix for the delay. The secrecy and lack of truthful information is a disgrace. Shame on VW Germany.
 
Dazzler said:
You make a good case Blue Yonder, and my recollection of contract law is very hazy, so will VW's obligation depend on whether the figures in the brochure are deemed to be part of the offer that formed the contract, or merely an invitation to treat (like a sign displaying a price in-store)? If it's the former then they'd be in breach of contract (regardless of how miffed we are/aren't by the figures being wrong) but if it's the latter then presumably the figures wouldn't form part of the contract. Not that I particularly care personally, I JUST WANT MY CAR!!! but it may affect those thinking they have a right to cancel/compensation. What do you think?
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The Consumer Rights Act 2015 only lets you reject the goods & get a full refund.

The 1967 Misrepresentation act would let you either cancel the contract or be awarded damages, however you have to act within a reasonable timescale. Knowing that the vehicle is going to be different to the brochure description before you take delivery gives you the chance to cancel. Waiting until you've taken delivery & then seeking damages wouldn't go down well in court.


If you want to look up a bit of case history the jaguar XJ220 supercar was late being delivered & came with a V6 engine instead of a V12 as promised. As the market had crashed a lot of would be owners tried to get out of having to buy them, the court ruled they had to go ahead.

I would have thought the best you could hope for is a bit of goodwill from VW.
 
itguy said:
Any ideas which port mine might go in to? West Yorkshire Van centre? Grimsby possibly?
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Most likely I would say.
 
Dazzler said:
You make a good case Blue Yonder, and my recollection of contract law is very hazy, so will VW's obligation depend on whether the figures in the brochure are deemed to be part of the offer that formed the contract, or merely an invitation to treat (like a sign displaying a price in-store)? If it's the former then they'd be in breach of contract (regardless of how miffed we are/aren't by the figures being wrong) but if it's the latter then presumably the figures wouldn't form part of the contract. Not that I particularly care personally, I JUST WANT MY CAR!!! but it may affect those thinking they have a right to cancel/compensation. What do you think?
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The brochure/Configurator specifications are an 'invitation to treat,, but once a deposit have been accepted by then a contract a legally binding contract exists between both parties. IT DOES NOT MATTER it was only a deposit. My belief is that the delay from getting a definitive statement from VW is that they need to consider and take advice about where they stand. I can see the reasons why things have slowly unfolded in the way that they. I like to think if, as I suspect the vans are not as originally specifed, that VW will make some reasonable offer in recognition of this. Come Spring we will be enjoying our Calis. :)
 
andyinluton said:
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 only lets you reject the goods & get a full refund.

The 1967 Misrepresentation act would let you either cancel the contract or be awarded damages, however you have to act within a reasonable timescale. Knowing that the vehicle is going to be different to the brochure description before you take delivery gives you the chance to cancel. Waiting until you've taken delivery & then seeking damages wouldn't go down well in court.


If you want to look up a bit of case history the jaguar XJ220 supercar was late being delivered & came with a V6 engine instead of a V12 as promised. As the market had crashed a lot of would be owners tried to get out of having to buy them, the court ruled they had to go ahead.

I would have thought the best you could hope for is a bit of goodwill from VW.
Click to expand...
 
Blue Yonder said:
The brochure/Configurator specifications are an 'invitation to treat,, but once a deposit have been accepted by then a contract a legally binding contract exists between both parties. IT DOES NOT MATTER it was only a deposit. My belief is that the delay from getting a definitive statement from VW is that they need to consider and take advice about where they stand. I can see the reasons why things have slowly unfolded in the way that they. I like to think if, as I suspect the vans are not as originally specifed, that VW will make some reasonable offer in recognition of this. Come Spring we will be enjoying our Calis. :)
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Show me something that the dealer has signed that states they are going to supply you a california exactly as described in the brochure dated XXXXX

See my previous post about what the contractual remedy is if is not to the agreed specification.
 
Goodness,

All these legal arguments....

I think VW will somehow dispense with millions of words and replace it with something like "take it or leave it".

Anyone deciding to take it I suspect might well have some sweeteners offered.
 
andyinluton said:
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 only lets you reject the goods & get a full refund.

The 1967 Misrepresentation act would let you either cancel the contract or be awarded damages, however you have to act within a reasonable timescale. Knowing that the vehicle is going to be different to the brochure description before you take delivery gives you the chance to cancel. Waiting until you've taken delivery & then seeking damages wouldn't go down well in court.


If you want to look up a bit of case history the jaguar XJ220 supercar was late being delivered & came with a V6 engine instead of a V12 as promised. As the market had crashed a lot of would be owners tried to get out of having to buy them, the court ruled they had to go ahead.

I would have thought the best you could hope for is a bit of goodwill from VW.
Click to expand...

The reason the court ruled they had to go ahead was that no loss of value resulted because the engine had 6 fewer cylinders. Tbus, no loss of bargain. Contract law is a mind field and I suspect this in part is causing VW to delay being as open about the situation as we would like.

If the only thing we have to worry about in life is when will we get our £60k wine cooler on wheels where not doing to bad.
 
Loz said:
What we want to know now is who will be the first to get theirs!
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True that!

I just want to burn some diesel while I still can... A few more g/km out the back won't be as noticeable on my carbon footprint (or my wallet) as the usual few long haul flights I'll probably take over the life of the vehicle.
 
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Blue Yonder said:
The reason the court ruled they had to go ahead was that no loss of value resulted because the engine had 6 fewer cylinders. Tbus, no loss of bargain. Contract law is a mind field and I suspect this in part is causing VW to delay being as open about the situation as we would like.

If the only thing we have to worry about in life is when will we get our £60k wine cooler on wheels where not doing to bad.
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'mind field' re minefield ....Predictive texting Grrrr!
 
I am just being lazy not reading this thread and appreciate that the link below may be known to you all but in case not I found this web site very / time consuming / useful whilst stalking my 17 Cali! With a bit of sleuthing I managed to track mine all the way to unloading at Grimsby but then lost contact until dealer called me to say it was due for delivery to them on a specific date.

http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ports/175/Germany_port:EMDEN
 
andyinluton said:
I doubt you will use any more fuel than previously, the only change is to the calculated consumption & emissions in the document. Ie the document is probably slightly closer to the truth than before.
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Nail on the head :thumb
 
No further status update on mine today. Still waiting for a ship to be assigned.

The Weser Highway is on its way back to Emden as we speak though, so hopefully tomorrow evening my Cali might be assigned to it.. maybe... hopefully....
 
itguy said:
No further status update on mine today. Still waiting for a ship to be assigned.

The Weser Highway is on its way back to Emden as we speak though, so hopefully tomorrow evening my Cali might be assigned to it.. maybe... hopefully....
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Where are you getting your status updates from Will? It's is awaiting a ship & I'm wondering where to stay sleuthing?!

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
LadySmiff said:
Where are you getting your status updates from Will? It's is awaiting a ship & I'm wondering where to stay sleuthing?!

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
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Wondered where you’d got to!

@itguy is likely tracking the ship here:

https://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9065417

Our vans will likely be going to Sheerness, I haven’t found the name of the ship doing this route...
 
hello guys,
I'm also waiting for my new VW bus. Very happy to found this forum and to know that I'm not alone in this awful situation.
Today I called my VW dealer an told him that I would like to cancel my oreder. Then he finally told me for the first time what is all about...
VW was trying to achive the emissions that were declared in the certificate under wich all the VW M1 vans were sold from 2015. They didn't sucsseded with the software change so VW was forced to submit the actual emissons data and apply for an new certificat...
Now the first certificars for the DSG came out this week and next week will arive the certificates for MANUAL engines...
PS
sorry for my ''tarzan'' english ;)
Best regards from Slovenia....
 
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