Is the Grand California a success?

[pjm-84]

Based on the number currently registered I would say no it hasnt been an success


148 registered since 2019, 1 SORN

​

 

[reserves]

Based on the number currently registered I would say no it hasnt been an success


148 registered since 2019, 1 SORN

​

Interesting.

Do you have the number for the Ocean for the same period?

 

[pjm-84]

Search results for 'california' - How Many Left?

Search results for 'california'. See how many cars of any make and model are left on Britain's roads.

www.howmanyleft.co.uk

 

[pjm-84]

Search results for 'ocean' - How Many Left?

Search results for 'ocean'. See how many cars of any make and model are left on Britain's roads.

www.howmanyleft.co.uk

 

[two-saabs]

Based on the number currently registered I would say no it hasnt been an success


148 registered since 2019, 1 SORN

​

Yikes!

Makes me think of many questions...

Are these the UK numbers?

If so, take that and compare to approx 3,750 UK Californias (my estimate using the published figures of 15k a year globally, guessing 10% for the UK, so 1,500 for 2019, same for 2020, and half for 2021 - if anyone has corrections to this please add)

Wonder what the global actual vs target sales were?

Number of built vs number sold, are they only built to order?

Or are there tons sitting around waiting for buyers?

Is it now a really short lead time for new orders?

Did all big campers take the same hit, or others e.g. Mercedes Sprinter sales are booming?

 

[two-saabs]

Doubled... Must have been pretty low to begin with!

"Orders taken for the California 6.1 rose in the first half of 2021 by 40 per cent compared to the already strong prior year figure. Its big brother too – the Grand California – saw strong year-on-year growth: orders taken doubled in number"

https://www.vwpress.co.uk/en-gb/releases/4591

 

[Wildcamper]

Based on the number of LWB conversions one sees out and about it seems that VW may have backed the wrong horse.

 

[Jester]

Based on the number of LWB conversions one sees out and about it seems that VW may have backed the wrong horse.

Interesting comment considering the prior conversation, also The same could be said for cali’s against conversions. ?

 

[Mr T]

Based on the number of LWB conversions one sees out and about it seems that VW may have backed the wrong horse.

I don't think VW are suffering too much, Cali sales have been massively up over the last couple of years.

 

[reserves]

I don't think VW are suffering too much, Cali sales have been massively up over the last couple of years.

I agree, though I don’t really care about sales. For me it’s a shame that the Grand isn’t a natural progression from a Cali (for me at least). It should have been an easy decision.

 

[two-saabs]

I agree, though I don’t really care about sales. For me it’s a shame that the Grand isn’t a natural progression from a Cali (for me at least). It should have been an easy decision.

Low sales of the Grand does suggest it has not been a success, and explains why it's not an easy decision for you.

So if we use the sales numbers to answer the original thread name, the answer is no, not a success. (I'm trusting the previously posted UK registration numbers and assuming VW expected to have more than 150 in 2.5 years)

The big question is, why?

 

[Jester]

I agree, though I don’t really care about sales. For me it’s a shame that the Grand isn’t a natural progression from a Cali (for me at least). It should have been an easy decision.

The GC was not produced for the same market as the Cali. It was an easy decision for me as I had the Ocean prior and spent months evaluating the competition, yes they had some benefits over the GC but for me the VW option suited best.

Well each to there own.

 

[Scribbler939]

All vans are a compromise, but I like how the GC600 balances those compromises. You still get plenty of garage, a decent wetroom, and two beds in the NZ model, all while staying within the space constraints of a van body. As someone who traded in a large six-berth motorhome, I'm glad to now have something with considerably more structural integrity. You should try driving something that's the front bit of a van with a large plywood shed tacked onto the back (i.e. most motorhomes) down our rough roads down under. The flimsy nature of the price point competition is one of the biggest reasons that the Grand California is a sales success in New Zealand.

The GC hits the spot for us, it's relatively affordable, has 4wd, high safety levels, and we don't mind the 'Wimpy booth' when it frees up space for far more important things. As for the TV or lack thereof, we don't miss one in any way, although we do get the laptop out to watch something occasionally.

Meanwhile, anyone who wonders why the bigger 680 can't have a second bed needs to look at the payload issue. The 680 can only cart nearly half as much weight as the 600 can, and fitting the second bed would have compromised that further.

 

[Hammer]

When I first got my California back in 2011 there were very few on the road, it was rare to see one in a camp site and it had been sold in the UK for around 5 years I think at that point. If the same question was asked but then I am sure due to small numbers it would have been classed as UK failure.

The main point here is people who buy the Grand are not your typical customer of the California. They are totally different vehicles, the California is an amazing bit of kit but for us after 8 years of ownership we felt we needed more space. I then purchased a A class motor home but hated the nightmare of multi warrantee and crap support so we are selling and coming back to VW. The only option for me is the Grand as having had bathroom I would not go back.

So my point is if you are a California owner who loves their vehicle of course you won't understand or want the Grand as you have best of both worlds a small camper that can go anywhere. But if you do want the extra space, the warrantee that covers everything from same manufacturer then there are very few options. My Grand is due in next few weeks and I can't wait to get back to the simplicity of VW ownership, yes there will be issues with it (had a lot of issues with California) but they will get sorted without argument etc.

On one final point if looking at numbers bear in mind UK market is only small part of VW strategy, also look at numbers of VW crafter/Sprinter size motorhomes from other manufacturers and see how many each of them sell per year!!

 

[Jester]

All vans are a compromise, but I like how the GC600 balances those compromises. You still get plenty of garage, a decent wetroom, and two beds in the NZ model, all while staying within the space constraints of a van body. As someone who traded in a large six-berth motorhome, I'm glad to now have something with considerably more structural integrity. You should try driving something that's the front bit of a van with a large plywood shed tacked onto the back (i.e. most motorhomes) down our rough roads down under. The flimsy nature of the price point competition is one of the biggest reasons that the Grand California is a sales success in New Zealand.

The GC hits the spot for us, it's relatively affordable, has 4wd, high safety levels, and we don't mind the 'Wimpy booth' when it frees up space for far more important things. As for the TV or lack thereof, we don't miss one in any way, although we do get the laptop out to watch something occasionally.

Meanwhile, anyone who wonders why the bigger 680 can't have a second bed needs to look at the payload issue. The 680 can only cart nearly half as much weight as the 600 can, and fitting the second bed would have compromised that further.

UK payload is 601kg for GC 680

 

[Borris]

IS THE GRAND CALIFORNIA A SUCCESS?​

Well I suppose this question can be looked at it in two ways:
1. How many have VW sold?
2. Would you buy one?

I don't know the answer to the sales figures. However I recently went to our dealer having made an appointment to view both GC models. After closely examining both models for a couple of hours we concluded that neither was for us. We have no immediate plans to change our current Beach and bought it for the long term. However this viewing was part of a look at other alternatives for the future. So far apart from the GC, caravans are definately out. There may come a day when a motorhome becomes more attractive but if that day ever comes we have concluded there are far better alternatives than the GC.

 

[two-saabs]

When I first got my California back in 2011 there were very few on the road, it was rare to see one in a camp site and it had been sold in the UK for around 5 years I think at that point. If the same question was asked but then I am sure due to small numbers it would have been classed as UK failure.

The main point here is people who buy the Grand are not your typical customer of the California. They are totally different vehicles, the California is an amazing bit of kit but for us after 8 years of ownership we felt we needed more space. I then purchased a A class motor home but hated the nightmare of multi warrantee and crap support so we are selling and coming back to VW. The only option for me is the Grand as having had bathroom I would not go back.

So my point is if you are a California owner who loves their vehicle of course you won't understand or want the Grand as you have best of both worlds a small camper that can go anywhere. But if you do want the extra space, the warrantee that covers everything from same manufacturer then there are very few options. My Grand is due in next few weeks and I can't wait to get back to the simplicity of VW ownership, yes there will be issues with it (had a lot of issues with California) but they will get sorted without argument etc.

On one final point if looking at numbers bear in mind UK market is only small part of VW strategy, also look at numbers of VW crafter/Sprinter size motorhomes from other manufacturers and see how many each of them sell per year!!

Good info.

And absolutely with the numbers, that's the point I was making earlier, we need context, to look at one number is isolation and draw conclusions on if that number is good or bad is jumping the gun

 

[Eber123]

When I first got my California back in 2011 there were very few on the road, it was rare to see one in a camp site and it had been sold in the UK for around 5 years I think at that point. If the same question was asked but then I am sure due to small numbers it would have been classed as UK failure.

The main point here is people who buy the Grand are not your typical customer of the California. They are totally different vehicles, the California is an amazing bit of kit but for us after 8 years of ownership we felt we needed more space. I then purchased a A class motor home but hated the nightmare of multi warrantee and crap support so we are selling and coming back to VW. The only option for me is the Grand as having had bathroom I would not go back.

So my point is if you are a California owner who loves their vehicle of course you won't understand or want the Grand as you have best of both worlds a small camper that can go anywhere. But if you do want the extra space, the warrantee that covers everything from same manufacturer then there are very few options. My Grand is due in next few weeks and I can't wait to get back to the simplicity of VW ownership, yes there will be issues with it (had a lot of issues with California) but they will get sorted without argument etc.

On one final point if looking at numbers bear in mind UK market is only small part of VW strategy, also look at numbers of VW crafter/Sprinter size motorhomes from other manufacturers and see how many each of them sell per year!!

We changed from the Ocean to the GC 600 for similar reasons. Yes, in recent weeks I gave out about the camper, but I also have to say that if it works it can meet our expectations almost fully.

Driving the GC is phantastic, sleeping is (for me) soooo much more comfortable than the Ocean. To have a wet room is a huge bonus (maybe it is my age ). I love the design of the GC, it is so different to others. Many people approached me already and said how good it looked or waved at me while driving (I mean in a good manner) .

Yes there are some "quirks" in the design which I don't understand why VW haven't thought about it, but I am sure that can be found everywhere.

I hope they get our camper fixed soon and that at some stage it will turn out reliable.

I wish you lots of fun with your Grand California and as little problems as possible.

Grand California,
Eberhard

 

[itsSteve]

Strikes me that the GC was not built for existing California users who are happy with their lot, but more for people who looked at a Cali and didn’t want one. My guess is that it was built for people like us, who want a fixed bed and a loo, who want to do some touring where overnight stops don’t require seats to be dismantled, bedding to be unpacked and roofs popped. It was built for people who have found that a Sevel base vehicle provides the necessary real estate if not the refinement, who may want to spend some weeks on the road whatever the season, who find coachbuilts too big and rattly, who don’t want a camper that doubles up as a family car. Other than the collapse of capitalism, I can only see one obstacle preventing the Grand California from selling well over the years and that is the increasing number of drivers in the EU and Britain who will be unable to buy all 680s and any well specced 600 because they will be over the 3.5t limit.

 

[two-saabs]

Strikes me that the GC was not built for existing California users who are happy with their lot, but more for people who looked at a Cali and didn’t want one. My guess is that it was built for people like us, who want a fixed bed and a loo, who want to do some touring where overnight stops don’t require seats to be dismantled, bedding to be unpacked and roofs popped. It was built for people who have found that a Sevel base vehicle provides the necessary real estate if not the refinement, who may want to spend some weeks on the road whatever the season, who find coachbuilts too big and rattly, who don’t want a camper that doubles up as a family car. Other than the collapse of capitalism, I can only see one obstacle preventing the Grand California from selling well over the years and that is the increasing number of drivers in the EU and Britain who will be unable to buy all 680s and any well specced 600 because they will be over the 3.5t limit.

I think its accepted that its not only a "california vs grand california" argument.

So taking that to one side, taking what you say about all the positives of the Grand, the questions still stand:

- Is the Grand a success?
- If not, why not?

 

[itsSteve]

I think its accepted that its not only a "california vs grand california" argument.

So taking that to one side, taking what you say about all the positives of the Grand, the questions still stand:

- Is the Grand a success?
- If not, why not?

As I've said, I think it will be a success, but only time will tell. The launch has been helped neither by the pandemic nor Brexit, but there seems to be a lot of interest out there on the web, and not just in Europe. "Staycationing" in the UK seems to be a thing, and the roomier vehicle is perhaps better suited to our variable weather; in the longer term the Crafter may be able to carry a heavier battery load than a Cali, allowing more flexible travel ......... better informed judgements than mine will be available in the coming years

 

[soppelsa]

It's not yet there from my perspective.
1,Needs larger off grid ,leisure battery capacity should be lithium ion like other competitors provide.
The battery should be located in the van not outside in the cold.
2,The table should be a fold down,hinge type instead of having th shove it under the bed.
3,The bench seat should have some adjustment.
With the possibility of converting to a 3rd bed using the front seat.
4,The driving/cabin area needs more refinement befitting a 90k motorhome (cheap looking apolstery)and the dash taken out of a Mk 1 Golf.
5,It seems time and time again they are coming out of the factory with faults.water leaks,solar collector not charging,router not working,battery not charging,software gremlins,cupboards bursting open,Thule step with a mind of its own.
All systems should be checked before leaving the factory.
I want a Cali but don't have the confidence yet.

 

[two-saabs]

It's not yet there from my perspective.
1,Needs larger off grid ,leisure battery capacity should be lithium ion like other competitors provide.
The battery should be located in the van not outside in the cold.
2,The table should be a fold down,hinge type instead of having th shove it under the bed.
3,The bench seat should have some adjustment.
With the possibility of converting to a 3rd bed using the front seat.
4,The driving/cabin area needs more refinement befitting a 90k motorhome (cheap looking apolstery)and the dash taken out of a Mk 1 Golf.
5,It seems time and time again they are coming out of the factory with faults.water leaks,solar collector not charging,router not working,battery not charging,software gremlins,cupboards bursting open,Thule step with a mind of its own.
All systems should be checked before leaving the factory.
I want a Cali but don't have the confidence yet.

But... The MK1 Golf was awesome!

 

[two-saabs]

It's not yet there from my perspective.
1,Needs larger off grid ,leisure battery capacity should be lithium ion like other competitors provide.
The battery should be located in the van not outside in the cold.
2,The table should be a fold down,hinge type instead of having th shove it under the bed.
3,The bench seat should have some adjustment.
With the possibility of converting to a 3rd bed using the front seat.
4,The driving/cabin area needs more refinement befitting a 90k motorhome (cheap looking apolstery)and the dash taken out of a Mk 1 Golf.
5,It seems time and time again they are coming out of the factory with faults.water leaks,solar collector not charging,router not working,battery not charging,software gremlins,cupboards bursting open,Thule step with a mind of its own.
All systems should be checked before leaving the factory.
I want a Cali but don't have the confidence yet.

Seriously though good summary

 

[Jester]

Strikes me that the GC was not built for existing California users who are happy with their lot, but more for people who looked at a Cali and didn’t want one. My guess is that it was built for people like us, who want a fixed bed and a loo, who want to do some touring where overnight stops don’t require seats to be dismantled, bedding to be unpacked and roofs popped. It was built for people who have found that a Sevel base vehicle provides the necessary real estate if not the refinement, who may want to spend some weeks on the road whatever the season, who find coachbuilts too big and rattly, who don’t want a camper that doubles up as a family car. Other than the collapse of capitalism, I can only see one obstacle preventing the Grand California from selling well over the years and that is the increasing number of drivers in the EU and Britain who will be unable to buy all 680s and any well specced 600 because they will be over the 3.5t limit.

Exactly that. Well put Steve.

I Just want to pitch up and have a drink in my hand within 10 minuets. No fagging around with awnings or beds. Oh and I did have a T6 for 3 months.

It has its issues like any new model.