Is the Grand California a success?

[Mr T]

I think its accepted that its not only a "california vs grand california" argument.

So taking that to one side, taking what you say about all the positives of the Grand, the questions still stand:

- Is the Grand a success?
- If not, why not?

Define what success looks like, as you seem quite keen to have a definitive answer!

You cannot compare a Cali to a Grand, I'm sure VW were not hoping the Grand stole Cali sales, more providing an offering in a market space they previously did not sell into.

 

[two-saabs]

Define what success looks like, as you seem quite keen to have a definitive answer!

You cannot compare a Cali to a Grand, I'm sure VW were not hoping the Grand stole Cali sales, more providing an offering in a market space they previously did not sell into.

Its literally the name of this thread

And I'm not the one comparing

I'm just interested, as personally I think the GC is a great vehicle, so trying to understand objectively the issues

 

[The Merle]

Is there loads for sale on the VW forecourts or privately? Not that I can see, so yes I would say it is a success but still early days

 

[pjm-84]

Different vehicles. Only VW knows if its met its sales targets or not. They were pushing it hard at the show in Feb 2020 and I sensed a degree of frustation within the rep. I think its a marmite vehicle. You either like or you dont. Both of us didnt and at 6ft 5in with a 48in chest it was somewhat of a wendy house for me.

 

[two-saabs]

Different vehicles. Only VW knows if its met its sales targets or not. They were pushing it hard at the show in Feb 2020 and I sensed a degree of frustation within the rep. I think its a marmite vehicle. You either like or you dont. Both of us didnt and at 6ft 5in with a 48in chest it was somewhat of a wendy house for me.

We need a man on the inside! (In VW, not, the van )

 

[The Pox]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but on Youtube, California Chris has done a two part comparison of the Cali Ocean vs the GC. It is very interesting to hear about some of the subtle differences. By the end I got the feeing that he prefers the Ocean but he doesn't say so directly. It is quite subtle but to me obvious. The two things that seem to swing it for him are the dining space and the fact that the upper beds in the GC are for kids only.

 

[Jester]

Different vehicles. Only VW knows if its met its sales targets or not. They were pushing it hard at the show in Feb 2020 and I sensed a degree of frustation within the rep. I think its a marmite vehicle. You either like or you dont. Both of us didnt and at 6ft 5in with a 48in chest it was somewhat of a wendy house for me.

So you do ok in your T5 then?

 

[two-saabs]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but on Youtube, California Chris has done a two part comparison of the Cali Ocean vs the GC. It is very interesting to hear about some of the subtle differences. By the end I got the feeing that he prefers the Ocean but he doesn't say so directly. It is quite subtle but to me obvious. The two things that seem to swing it for him are the dining space and the fact that the upper beds in the GC are for kids only.

His name is California Chris, he might be a bit biased!

 

[The Pox]

His name is California Chris, he might be a bit biased!

He works for the company that make both! He called himself California Chris before the GC was a twinkle in VW's eye.

 

[two-saabs]

He works for the company that make both! He called himself California Chris before the GC was a twinkle in VW's eye.

Sure sure, I'm half joking, but clearly he really likes the California, so would imagine it's tough for him to have exactly the same soft spot for a different vehicle

 

[The Pox]

Watch the videos. He is very fair. The videos are made to help customers choose the right vehicle for their needs. If you want beds for four adults the GC is not suitable, odd as this may be, being the larger vehicle.

 

[pjm-84]

So you do ok in your T5 then?

The California doesn't rely on people walking around inside. All can be done from the seated position which is fortunate as we have two boxers that take up the floor space. If you need to circulate to the boot you typically leave the vehicle. No great issue.

 

[pjm-84]

Actually forgot to answer your question. Yes I do alright in the California. We've had it since 2015 and we cant find any reason to change.

At the moment we're down to two vehicles (waiting for a new "dog" vehicle to arrive) and the California has been the workhorse for the last 4 months

 

[Jester]

The California doesn't rely on people walking around inside. All can be done from the seated position which is fortunate as we have two boxers that take up the floor space. If you need to circulate to the boot you typically leave the vehicle. No great issue.

Haha really talking about your stature ie 6.5ft & 48” chest on a Cali bed and 2 dogs, sleeping in a Cali must be a little cramped for you..

 

[Mr T]

Watch the videos. He is very fair. The videos are made to help customers choose the right vehicle for their needs. If you want beds for four adults the GC is not suitable, odd as this may be, being the larger vehicle.

To be honest, I wouldn't want to share my Cali Ocean with 3 other adults!

Next week CaliforniaChris is comparing the VW Up! to the Passat Estate.

 

[Scribbler939]

UK payload is 601kg for GC 680

Payloads of the NZ models (4wd standard) are 516kg for the GC 680 and 699kg for the 600, Apologies for exaggerating the difference in the earlier post, but I suspect the nearly 200kg of extra capacity for the smaller Grand California is the main reason Volkswagen could allow it to have an extra bed. Despite the extra weight of that bed, it still out-trumps the 680 on payload.

 

[pjm-84]

Haha really talking about your stature ie 6.5ft & 48” chest on a Cali bed and 2 dogs, sleeping in a Cali must be a little cramped for you..

Not really. Because when I'm sitting down I'm only 1.4m approx. When I'm asleep I'm not really that focused on space. The issue I have sleeping up top is that I move around a bit in the night and that keeps me awake, even if I'm on my own. But I am a very light / poor sleeper. (Wife also snores)

I slept downstairs on a recent trip, and once comfortable I crashed. However my moving around woke the wife upstairs a few times. One dog by my feet, the other on the floor between the bed and front seats.

Now if I get up and have to walk around then movement becomes difficult.

The bike in my avator is a 62cm frame.

 

[pjm-84]

As an elite rower in my youth we only came in XXL or XXXL+ .

Avator changed to me as a veteran 1x sculler.

(The 1x is 110kg rated Aylings boat so not small in any shape or form)

 

[The Pox]

To be honest, I wouldn't want to share my Cali Ocean with 3 other adults!

Next week CaliforniaChris is comparing the VW Up! to the Passat Estate.

Well it all depends on WHICH three adults!!. We could have a competition. Which three adults would you (willingly) share a Cali with?!

 

[Jester]

Payloads of the NZ models (4wd standard) are 516kg for the GC 680 and 699kg for the 600, Apologies for exaggerating the difference in the earlier post, but I suspect the nearly 200kg of extra capacity for the smaller Grand California is the main reason Volkswagen could allow it to have an extra bed. Despite the extra weight of that bed, it still out-trumps the 680 on payload.

I had a 600 but changed for the 680 purely for the heaps of stowage and cant imagine needing more than 601kg

 

[T3Z-GB]

I guess that depends on what we deem as a success? Profitable, market penetration vs competitors, satisfied customer? It’s hard to know based on this forum as usually only disgruntled customer post, obvs that includes me

 

[Paddy GC680]

IS THE GRAND CALIFORNIA A SUCCESS?​

I really don't know.

However, when it first came out I studied both versions with interest and arrived at the following conculsion:

Where as the California is the well established gold standard amongst a very small number of alternatives, the Grand California is VW's new boy trying get noticed in an already crowded and well established market for larger motorhomes. IMO there are many other makes and designs offering much better internal layouts within that market sector. The GC's mid positioned bathroom layout effectively cuts the van in half both width and length ways giving the impression of it being less roomy than other MHs. IMO, this isn't the best use of the available space. I stand to be corrected but to me it seems that it's two main advantages appear to be limited to it's borrowed VW "California" name and it's one manufacturer warranty.

I'm sure it's a fine product but if I were in the market for a larger van those two possible advantages wouldn't necessarily hold that much sway in my decision making process.

One final thought. Given that we are in Motor Home territory here, the GC interior appears about as homely as a dentist's waiting room. I'm not sure that's what most potential buyers would be looking for.

I have had my GC 680 for 8 weeks and love it to bits. Amazing, does the job and drives fantastically. Bed is so comfortable, and turn front seats around and recline the seats. So this is great for relaxing. Most of the time we r outside and relax in the sun. Also bought a Kala 5 awning, This is also great. Cost a few bob, but been away 5 times already. Bed is very comfortable and loads of storage. Adding a 2000watt inverter and life po4 lithium iron battery's. So now I will have 240v for small microwave and hairdryer. At the moment charge laptop from 12v - 240v cheap inverter on amerzon. 150w. Yes a few compromises, but can park this anywhere so it's outside my house on the road. Looks great. Life changer.

 

[Paddy GC680]

View attachment 76512
180 bhp, 4x4, traction Control, diff lock, 3 heaters, 4 years servicing, 4 year warranty, Auto 8 speed, 100mph

Put my snow tyres on and I can’t find a better van to take me to the Alps, no brainier for me

Exactly the same as my model. Fitting battery pack for 240v but need to buy snow tyres . Will buy new wheels I think. Can you recommend a good place. Love the van, fabulous. Loads of storage. I wonder how it will handle the cold. Mind you, Truman diesel heater works a treat.

 

[reserves]

Saw the 680 in person yesterday, I'd love one but not practical as only sleeps 2.

Spoke to the dealer, says for every 40 Cali's they sell they sell one Grand, not saying that is success or failure, just interesting

 

[Chainline]

An interesting read for me as a new owner who was reluctant to a degree due to reading of all the problems.

I managed to find that very rare beast a GC680 used, having missed out on the 4wd one I wanted by one hour so even that was a compromise (tho I prefer the colour of the one I got) . I paid slightly less than a fully loaded T6.1 Ocean which was the same answer I got when I checked the new price, similar price to a high spec, 2wd dealer Ocean but basically a new price even though approved used but to be expected with a 16mnth waiting list.

From experience of 2 Cali's an ocean and a beach, both of which have their fair share of niggles/issues, its also clear this applies to many coachbuilt conversions.

I couldn't find the balance of compromise I wanted in a conversion at less than 120k OR I simply couldn't get the one I thought I could live with as a result of Brexit, no dealers, no euro dealers wanted to deal with me.I also couldn't get what I wanted until end 23 earliest.

I did not want a fridge due to width, I did want a bathroom and not to have to faff around with bed making.
I agree the lounge is smallish and I wish the bench reclined a bit. The latter solved with a cushion mind. I would eant more 'offgrid' but I can see, thanks to this forum, how that is easily achievable at moderate cost even if a little more inconvenient than being 'built in'.

I watched bus and beyond and it was a game changer, I see the sterile criticism and can understand that but some led ambients (yes fairy) lights , colour on the bed, some adventure stickers on the cabinets and it changes the inside completely.

Personally when out we spend 80% of our time outside not watching telly in a lounge, but if we do spend it inside, just like in the Cali, we eat then pile cushions on the bed and crash there with an Ipad or laptop and a film.

I want(ed - still in my mind) an RP Rebellion but I really don't like fake wood with a passion, , a caravan lounge area - hate the thought so have discussed eliminating both with them and I wouldn't want the much lauded up and over door as its a PITA with the mtb's I need to carry. and of course the price, >£150k

I did want a high ground clearance 4wd (which the GC doesn't have as not higher unlike Sprinter) but equally nervous about the Sprinter, base vehicle reliability and dealer network reputation.

ALL of the alternatives in a similar panel van, including conversions, were as much or more than the GC for a similar spec, Knaus Box drive, Seven Hedin, Hymer Grand Canyon (and most 6m - my original thought) and I was already nervous about the cost since I didn't know if I would like anything bigger than the T6 due to the everyday convenience and never worrying about parking.

So tho that might seem off topic, the point is I think it is a different market to a cali as described, and whilst a compromise it was the best compromise for me at this time and it is quite likely I'll stick with it based on initial impressions.
To answer the question a year on from the thread, they are rare used still, maybe because of the production issue still but not only that, the GC680 more rare but to be expected as 3.8T and 2 berth but I think this is a particular market (look a the marketing photo's, quite age targeted, yes I am mid 50's, active, heading to semi retirement, want to travel with my wife around Europe as the kids leave home to Uni etc...stereotype me! ).

It looks to me that it is a success in Europe as it is a good price point for this kind of van with a modern and fresh interior with a good dealer network.