Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[.Billy Ocean.]

They weren’t the so called C variant. I asked before fitting and for the blue bellows only the same part number was available. They were blocked from ordering but later became available again. Clearly VW knew there was a potential bellows issue but decided to make them available again anyway.

Can I just double check… Were your original leaking twin skin bellows replaced under warranty with new leaking twin skin bellows by Breeze at Poole? (No shade intended towards Breeze as they are clearly just following the process available to them).

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Can I just double check… Were your original leaking twin skin bellows replaced under warranty with new leaking twin skin bellows by Breeze at Poole? (No shade intended towards Breeze as they are clearly just following the process available to them).

Yes that’s right.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

They weren’t the so called C variant. I asked before fitting and for the blue bellows only the same part number was available. They were blocked from ordering but later became available again. Clearly VW knew there was a potential bellows issue but decided to make them available again anyway.

Do you have the little white tag from the replacements.

On the German forum, there is one example where bellows produced late June had a serial number in the 100s suggesting a reset had taken place, perhaps with the C version. But still "03S". To be honest these fabrics and the tags look a little un-professional in terms of rigorous version control. It wouldn't surprise me if this is a real small company churning these out without proper version control.

That's why they are looking for examples of vehicles built after 1/July as it seems all Cali's built after that date definitely had the new C version.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Do you have the little white tag from the replacements.

On the German forum, there is one example where bellows produced late June had a serial number in the 100s suggesting a reset had taken place, perhaps with the C version. But still "03S". To be honest these fabrics and the tags look a little un-professional in terms of rigorous version control. It wouldn't surprise me if this is a real small company churning these out without proper version control.

That's why they are looking for examples of vehicles built after 1/July as it seems all Cali's built after that date definitely had the new C version.

No tag left on mine.

 

[Jabberwocky]

C versions still leak I believe …

So.......C versions are being used to replace older versions and installed in new vehicles?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

So.......C versions are being used to replace older versions and installed in new vehicles?

Apparently but nobody really knows. It’s all just reading between the lines.

 

[Sabi-Star1977]

Looking for other peoples' experiences with the new double lined pop top roof (the one that is grey outside / cream inside), and any potential solutions to the problem of leaking though the seams and fabric.

In the last week we've had complaints from customers on all four of our March 2023 Oceans that the new style pop tops have leaked, mostly though the seams in heavy rain or constant drizzle. Each of them has the new double lined lined pop top roof (grey outside / cream inside). It's not a problem that we had with our "old style" 2022 vehicles (the ones with the single grey pop top fabric) - I think it might be an issue with the new design.

I've read on the forums that putting the pop tops through a few wet / dry cycles will sort the issue as the fibres tighten up - has anyone experienced this with the new style pop top?

If not, has anyone tried something like a Nikwax application to improve waterproofness?

Hi,
I have a 2023 model 6.1 and the front seam below the opening vent leaks to the extent that water has affected the electrics. I have to lay a dishcloth to soak up the water and wring it out every couple of hours when raining.
I will be contacting my dealer for a warranty claim but if it is a design defect, is it covered?

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Hi,
I have a 2023 model 6.1 and the front seam below the opening vent leaks to the extent that water has affected the electrics. I have to lay a dishcloth to soak up the water and wring it out every couple of hours when raining.
I will be contacting my dealer for a warranty claim but if it is a design defect, is it covered?

Might I ask which dealer?

And do you know when it was built?

It absolutely should be covered but VW do appear to be struggling to understand the scale of the problem and cone up with a proper solution

 

[Joncali2023!!]

Hi,
I have a 2023 model 6.1 and the front seam below the opening vent leaks to the extent that water has affected the electrics. I have to lay a dishcloth to soak up the water and wring it out every couple of hours when raining.
I will be contacting my dealer for a warranty claim but if it is a design defect, is it covered?

I tried waterproofing sprays and waxed - nothing worked . I Rejected it in the end.
Poor roof design in my opinion

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

@Jeaniethecali

Hi Jeanie.

I think you started the thread which got closed down.

Please let us know how you are getting on with your leaky Cali...

 

[Corradobrit]

VW do appear to be struggling to understand the scale of the problem and cone up with a proper solution

VW are perfectly aware of the scale of the problem. Their dealer network is providing all the data needed. And they only have to check the orders for replacement bellows since the introduction of the twin skinned variant to drive it home.
Owning up to their mistake and providing a solution is a completely different matter.

 

[Fish111111111.]

Spoke to my dealer last night , he was not aware of any instructions not to replace bellows and was infact due to replace another customers bellows in a weeks time. As a note he said it was the first one they had done in the last 18 months. (Marshalls at Reading) . Its really concerning, and my wife definitely does not want to reject it.

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

Spoke to my dealer last night , he was not aware of any instructions not to replace bellows and was infact due to replace another customers bellows in a weeks time. As a note he said it was the first one they had done in the last 18 months. (Marshalls at Reading) . Its really concerning, and my wife definitely does not want to reject it.

I can't work this out, you would think the dealer would need authorisation to replace a bellows under warranty. Unless VWCV are trying a new version of bellows without admitting they are not fit for purpose.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Ultimately, if the warranty route proves fruitless in the medium term, there's always the Consumer Rights Act (if you've bought it, not leased or financed it as that probably complicates matters). Key excerpts:

• Fit for purpose: The goods should be fit for the purpose they are supplied for, as well as any specific purpose you made known to the retailer before you agreed to buy the goods.
• As described: The goods supplied must match any description given to you, or any models or samples shown to you at the time of purchase.
• Satisfactory quality: Goods shouldn't be faulty or damaged when you receive them. You should ask what a reasonable person would consider satisfactory for the goods in question. For example, bargain-bucket products won’t be held to as high standards as luxury goods.

"Beyond the first 30 days of ownership you're entitled to a full or partial refund instead of a repair or replacement if any of the following are true:

• an attempt at repair or replacement has failed
• the cost of the repair or replacement is disproportionate to the value of the goods or digital content
• a repair or replacement is impossible
• a repair or replacement will cause you significant inconvenience
• the repair or replacement will take an unreasonably long amount of time.

If a repair or replacement is not possible, or the attempt at repair fails, or the first replacement also turns out to be defective, you can reject the goods for a full refund."

Plenty of scope here for demanding an effective repair under the Act; I can't see how VW could ever legitimately claim the leaking bellows are both "Fit for Purpose" and "Satisfactory Quality". Of course, the outcome from that would be either a repair (currently not effective, but we're all hoping that will change) or a refund (full or partial, depending on circumstances). For as long as the value of nearly new vans are so close to brand new vehicles, it seems likely VW would almost happily refund and just sell the van to an unsuspecting customer (after all, there are loads of Calis out there and it does seem to only be a limited noise about the bellows unless dealers are lying to their customers when they say it's the first case they've had). Then again, if used values drop, that might just mean the "partial refund" becomes less generous.

There is still the option of a home-repair (i.e. seam sealer) but I am loathed to do anything that a) would invalidate the warranty and b) make an effort where it should be VW resolving the problem.

 

[Barrington Caldbar]

I am new to the Forum so sorry if this has already been asked. I am about to take ownership of a new Ocean 6.1 from JCT600 in Sheffield. I wonder if I should raise the leaking bellows with them and ask them to thoroughly test them before I make the final payment?

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Spoke to my dealer last night , he was not aware of any instructions not to replace bellows and was in fact due to replace another customers bellows in a weeks time. As a note he said it was the first one they had done in the last 18 months. (Marshalls at Reading) . Its really concerning, and my wife definitely does not want to reject it.

I think that comment was made on the German bulletin board and turned out not to be the case.

 

[RockinNRollin]

I am new to the Forum so sorry if this has already been asked. I am about to take ownership of a new Ocean 6.1 from JCT600 in Sheffield. I wonder if I should raise the leaking bellows with them and ask them to thoroughly test them before I make the final payment?

You could do that, but they would probably just hose it down and unfortunately that appears not to be conclusive as a test. Let's be practical here though; if it does leak, then what? They will probably pressure you to either complete the sale (and assure you the issue will be resolved) or reject it as they know they can flog it otherwise.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

I am new to the Forum so sorry if this has already been asked. I am about to take ownership of a new Ocean 6.1 from JCT600 in Sheffield. I wonder if I should raise the leaking bellows with them and ask them to thoroughly test them before I make the final payment?

I was at a dealership and at handover, they were highlighting the "remote" possibility of the leaking bellows and instructing the customer to take to any VW dealership asap should water ingress occur.

I would insist on a water test at handover.

Interestingly, do you know when your Cali was built? There is a suggestion, again on the German board, that all Calis entering build after July 1st were fitted with the "C" bellows version. I'm not sure there are as yet any concrete examples of later models leaking but that may just be timing of the builds.

 

[Barrington Caldbar]

I think the build date was mid July. I have emailed the dealer this morning so will see what happens.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

I am new to the Forum so sorry if this has already been asked. I am about to take ownership of a new Ocean 6.1 from JCT600 in Sheffield. I wonder if I should raise the leaking bellows with them and ask them to thoroughly test them before I make the final payment?

I wouldn’t make any payments - hold fire.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

I was at a dealership and at handover, they were highlighting the "remote" possibility of the leaking bellows and instructing the customer to take to any VW dealership asap should water ingress occur.

I would insist on a water test at handover.

Interestingly, do you know when your Cali was built? There is a suggestion, again on the German board, that all Calis entering build after July 1st were fitted with the "C" bellows version. I'm not sure there are as yet any concrete examples of later models leaking but that may just be timing of the builds.

“C” bellows still leak.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

“C” bellows still leak.

That may be the case but I don't see enough evidence yet...

C bellows have been installed on all new Cali's built post July. If they start leaking then we know for sure.

In terms of bellow replacement, it's not clear from this forum or the German one whether people really know what replacement they've had.

I don't think there's a part number stamped on the bellows...

 

[Joncali2023!!]

VW customer service said to me , a customer who has major issues and keeps their vehicle , is a dealers perfect buyer.
I tend to agree, VW dealers across the country are laughing at these customers with leaking bellows who keep them hoping for a fix.
The major component of a Cali and its flawed.
Reject them. If you love the Cali that much buy one when they are fixed or redesigned.
At the moment they’ll do nothing, because you’re all happy and still using the vehicle with a plaster over the roof.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

VW customer service said to me , a customer who has major issues and keeps their vehicle , is a dealers perfect buyer.
I tend to agree, VW dealers across the country are laughing at these customers with leaking bellows who keep them hoping for a fix.
The major component of a Cali and its flawed.
Reject them. If you love the Cali that much buy one when they are fixed or redesigned.
At the moment they’ll do nothing, because you’re all happy and still using the vehicle with a plaster over the roof.

There may be a QC or systematic failure with some fabric on the bellows or on a certain batch.

But in the scheme of things this ain't no Dieselgate.

They are easily replaced, must be cheap as chips to manufacture so I figure it will get sorted in the next 6 months.

If it doesn't I can and will still reject.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

There may be a QC or systematic failure with some fabric on the bellows or on a certain batch.

But in the scheme of things this ain't no Dieselgate.

They are easily replaced, must be cheap as chips to manufacture so I figure it will get sorted in the next 6 months.

If it doesn't I can and will still reject.

You’ll find it hard to reject a vehicle more than 6 months in ownership that you’re still USING.