Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Joncali2023!!]

Perhaps that came across not as I intended. After hearing of his experience I’m surprised he still wants to be here. Sorry Jon.

Non offence taken.

 

[I feel camping]

I just got a call from VW dealer that they are now replacing canvas with type C and that the new canvas is lighter silver color.
Do you know anything about that?

 

[Kayleigh]

I just got a call from VW dealer that they are now replacing canvas with type C and that the new canvas is lighter silver color.
Do you know anything about that?

I hope it resolves the leaks, but I’m sure I read on the German forum that the C version was still problematic. That was back in late July though.

 

[RockinNRollin]

I just got a call from VW dealer that they are now replacing canvas with type C and that the new canvas is lighter silver color.
Do you know anything about that?

Assuming this is your Cali it's being replaced on, could you take some before and after photos please, including with some sort of "control" card (e.g. a piece of grey card) so we can see if the colour (and therefore presumably the fabric) has changed?

 

[Joncali2023!!]

I just got a call from VW dealer that they are now replacing canvas with type C and that the new canvas is lighter silver color.
Do you know anything about that?

We know type c still leaks

 

[I feel camping]

Will ask them when they finish. I have zero hope that this will solve the leaking but VW SLO have an old info from VW that this is the fix. I asked them few times to double check with VW but they didnt got any new info. I guess they dont mind change it several times.
Now I just wait for the rain test and think what to do next…

 

[I feel camping]

I have to agree with Joncali2023!! that we cali owner are extremely pacient.
Dont think new Toureg buyer will be waiting for part to fix roof leaking for 2 months?

 

[RockinNRollin]

As you say, the only way to know for sure it to pop it on a wet and breezy day and wait.

I'm not convinced the "starry" effect some remark about is really a concern - the MY22 we hired had that and didn't let any water through at all. I think it's got everything to do with the stitching/seams. @I feel camping We await your photos and rain test with baited breath!

 

[I feel camping]

Yes, and from my experiance the problem is not heavy rain for one hour, but constant rain for cca 6 hours.

 

[Jeaniethecali]

In an earlier post on the old thread, I think you were sending a rejection letter to Eurovans.

How did they react to that?

Yes I sent the rejection letter in to Eurovans and I cc'd VWCV customer care too.
I heard nothing for a while but eventually spoke to Eurovans sales manager. He said he wanted a chance to sort the bellows out first and asked if I could get the van down to him (250 miles each way). The day before, the service manager at Manchester centre had contacted me to say he was confident of getting authorisation from VW for new bellows. We decided to let Manchester try and fix the van first, but since then I've heard nothing back from them, and the service manager who is dealing with this has failed to return my calls.
I really want to keep the van as we love the freedom it gives us, but this bellows issue is causing me a real headache, so rejection might still be on the cards.
On another note, the sales manger at Eurovans told me that they only know of 3 vans out of 60+ sold by them this year with this issue. I'm taking that with a pinch of salt!

 

[andyinluton]

On another note, the sales manger at Eurovans told me that they only know of 3 vans out of 60+ sold by them this year with this issue. I'm taking that with a pinch of salt!

I can believe that, some bellows don't leak & if you don't have a problem you wouldn't go searching the internet/ forums just to report that you have nothing wrong.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Nevertheless I am not entirely sure the left hand knows what the right hand is doing at EV, that’s why I suggested anyone with the issue should send the details and videos/pics etc directly to the Aftersales Manager Dean Lifford, who has offered to track the issue. I know of more than 3 cases at EV myself and I’m just a customer…

 

[Kayleigh]

On another note, the sales manger at Eurovans told me that they only know of 3 vans out of 60+ sold by them this year with this issue. I'm taking that with a pinch of salt!

Just spoken to EV and was told 3 out of 60 sold in the last two weeks. 5% leakers in two weeks reported back to EV would frankly be rather poor.

My personal opinion from my own testing is there are three causes of the leaks, and if any of the new type bellows have not leaked yet, that’s because they haven’t been subjected to the conditions that would cause water to penetrate.

1. Fabric saturation as you would expect after a night of rain causes water permeability. The fabric becomes very wet to touch once it reaches saturation point. It also takes a long time to dry.
2. The stitching does not seem to be compatible with the fabric as pretty much everywhere the fabric is stitched it leaks. In particular the arched front window stitching is very porous, but not the zip itself. Water will then run down and cause the lower seam to leak. Water seeping through the upper baton stitching also supports this hypothesis. There is no join here and nothing to trap water on the outside. The baton fabric is simply stitched to the back of the bellows.
3. Fabric stretching. At the base of the bellows in the corners, the fabric is stretched to such a degree that enlarged stitching holes appear, which allow water ingress. I’ve added a couple of photos of my bellows as evidence.

If you want to see some sample videos from my tests, they are on YouTube @CaliLeaks. The test rig was a hose pipe and spray gun set to a fine spray attached to a tall step ladder. Photo attached.

 

[Corradobrit]

Just spoken to EV and was told 3 out of 60 sold in the last two weeks. 5% leakers in two weeks reported back to EV would frankly be rather poor.

My personal opinion from my own testing is there are three causes of the leaks, and if any of the new type bellows have not leaked yet, that’s because they haven’t been subjected to the conditions that would cause water to penetrate.

1. Fabric saturation as you would expect after a night of rain causes water permeability. The fabric becomes very wet to touch once it reaches saturation point. It also takes a long time to dry.
2. The stitching does not seem to be compatible with the fabric as pretty much everywhere the fabric is stitched it leaks. In particular the arched front window stitching is very porous, but not the zip itself. Water will then run down and cause the lower seam to leak. Water seeping through the upper baton stitching also supports this hypothesis. There is no join here and nothing to trap water on the outside. The baton fabric is simply stitched to the back of the bellows.
3. Fabric stretching. At the base of the bellows in the corners, the fabric is stretched to such a degree that enlarged stitching holes appear, which allow water ingress. I’ve added a couple of photos of my bellows as evidence.

If you want to see some sample videos from my tests, they are on YouTube @CaliLeaks. The test rig was a hose pipe and spray gun set to a fine spray attached to a tall step ladder. Photo attached.

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IMHO its the fabric stretch that is the biggest culprit here. The fabric has a natural stretch to it. In fact when it was first showcased last year in Germany people said it had a neoprene (stuff used for wetsuits) quality. Combined with a thread that doesn't swell and perhaps a larger needle diameter and the ideal conditions are met that allow water to infiltrate.

 

[Corradobrit]

Together with a wicking effect caused by the saturation of the outer layer.

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

I sent my complaint email to VWCV last Thursday (5 days ago). Letting them know what the reponse my dealer had from vw technical, when they reported the bellows leaking. I stated that the bellows are not fit for purpose and that I can't use my van if there is any chance of rain. I also asked for a cali wrap so I can use it while they are looking into a solution.

Got a call this morning wanting some more information, registered etc. They are looking into it and going to update me in the next couple of days.

Everybody with leaking bellows should be emailing VWCV. Hopefully they will realise this is not going away.

 

[.Billy Ocean.]

I sent my complaint email to VWCV last Thursday (5 days ago). Letting them know what the reponse my dealer had from vw technical, when they reported the bellows leaking. I stated that the bellows are not fit for purpose and that I can't use my van if there is any chance of rain. I also asked for a cali wrap so I can use it while they are looking into a solution.

Got a call this morning wanting some more information, registered etc. They are looking into it and going to update me in the next couple of days.

Everybody with leaking bellows should be emailing VWCV. Hopefully they will realise this is not going away.

We raised the issue and the contact in the executive office advised they would reply on Friday 1 September… I assumed that meant this year, but no reply yet…

 

[RockinNRollin]

I've emailed VWCV several times and haven't had any response at all, not even an acknowledgement. EV claimed a similar statistic, but given most people aren't camping in their Cali's most of the time, it requires the following ducks in a row; camping, in the rain, with the roof up, with the rain on the canvas and for sufficiently long. It's not surprising really that a single-digit % of people within several months of delivery would have encountered leaks, especially if people are utilising the spontaneity of the Cali and going away when it's nice.

 

[Kayleigh]

I've emailed VWCV several times and haven't had any response at all, not even an acknowledgement. EV claimed a similar statistic, but given most people aren't camping in their Cali's most of the time, it requires the following ducks in a row; camping, in the rain, with the roof up, with the rain on the canvas and for sufficiently long. It's not surprising really that a single-digit % of people within several months of delivery would have encountered leaks, especially if people are utilising the spontaneity of the Cali and going away when it's nice.

It would be interesting to know how many leakers Breeze have had as a percentage of sales. Closer to 25%?

 

[RockinNRollin]

It would be interesting to know how many leakers Breeze have had as a percentage of sales. Closer to 25%?

Not sure, as my post above, not everyone is determined to go camping "whatever the weather". Those who don't pre-book, and/or are retired might be more likely to wait for better weather. I think in reality, for most users, it would take up to a full season of use before the leaks would become evident.

 

[ArunAlec]

Not sure, as my post above, not everyone is determined to go camping "whatever the weather". Those who don't pre-book, and/or are retired might be more likely to wait for better weather. I think in reality, for most users, it would take up to a full season of use before the leaks would become evident.

There will be some owners who do not intend to have their Californias for more than a couple of years and can’t be bothered to argue the toss with their dealer. Also some will buy the “only showerproof“ response and go away oblivious.

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

I've emailed VWCV several times and haven't had any response at all, not even an acknowledgement. EV claimed a similar statistic, but given most people aren't camping in their Cali's most of the time, it requires the following ducks in a row; camping, in the rain, with the roof up, with the rain on the canvas and for sufficiently long. It's not surprising really that a single-digit % of people within several months of delivery would have encountered leaks, especially if people are utilising the spontaneity of the Cali and going away when it's nice.

I emailed to customercare@vwcv.co.uk think somebody before said this was the one. It's the link on the Web site as well.

 

[Kayleigh]

I emailed to customercare@vwcv.co.uk think somebody before said this was the one. It's the link on the Web site as well.

I suggest phoning customer care. It’s a lot quicker!

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

It would be interesting to know how many leakers Breeze have had as a percentage of sales. Closer to 25%?

That's a figure I heard.

Before my failure someone at EV had indicated 3 out of 35. So the only consistent figure there is the 3!!!!!

We don't of course know how they are counted because many will log issues with other dealers, possibly not even keeping EV in the loop. Only VW will know a more accurate picture.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Only VW will know a more hide the accurate picture.

FTFY