Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[stationmaster]

The next few weeks will maybe bring a bit more clarity i'm thinking, although i have been thinking that for months now...it does not appear to look so good as it did for the 04S.

If you recently took delivery of a new van that is a little disappointing.

If you have a slightly older van, and are waiting on a warranty replacement - maybe better to delay that for a while? That is what i would be doing for sure.

 

[Viktorgeorge]

My solution to this problem is suggest to VW to speak and use the same material that the Cali topper from the club shop uses. It’s waterproof, flexible folds into small space and relatively cheap. Job done.

I did not mean to thumbs up (don't think you can remove imojis?), as a better solution would be to revert to the previous bellows (like mine). I feel for those caught by this, turture I am sure, and I do wonder if anyone can find out who made those previous bellows (same company as present just different fabric, or a different manufacturer entirely?) as reversion would have merit if only it was achievable.

 

[stationmaster]

I did not mean to thumbs up (don't think you can remove imojis?), as a better solution would be to revert to the previous bellows (like mine). I feel for those caught by this, turture I am sure, and I do wonder if anyone can find out who made those previous bellows (same company as present just different fabric, or a different manufacturer entirely?) as reversion would have merit if only it was achievable.

I sold a 2018 t6 van with a great spec (and single skin bellows), to replace it with a new 6.1...if only i knew then what i know now

Life is tricky sometimes!

 

[Maidment_Ocean]

I got my Cali in September 23, been waiting for a fix before I test my Poptop In the rain. I guess I’ll be waiting a bit longer now…. Will keep putting the topper or wrap on in the rain for now. Thanks to all those testing the 04S!

 

[markbrown83]

I got my Cali in September 23, been waiting for a fix before I test my Poptop In the rain. I guess I’ll be waiting a bit longer now…. Will keep putting the topper or wrap on in the rain for now. Thanks to all those testing the 04S!

what topper / wrap do you use?

 

[RockinNRollin]

I

what topper / wrap do you use?

I use the Comfortz one from the club shop. Made in the UK (I think) and feels good quality.

 

[portofinopoll]

I sold a 2018 t6 van with a great spec (and single skin bellows), to replace it with a new 6.1...if only i knew then what i know now

Life is tricky sometimes!

Ditto, due to have 04S post 9/11 replacement in 2 weeks time, torn what to do now.

 

[Maidment_Ocean]

what topper / wrap do you use?

I have Comfortz Cali wrap, which is great quality and very thick so great for winter, used in snow etc keeps the van warm enough. Just bought a Vanorak (2nd hand) as it is not insulated so I will be using that from now on as the weather gets warmer. Will be giving it a test run for 3 nights this weekend in Cheddar where plenty of rain is predicted. TBH my advice while all this gets sorted just get a cover on so you can enjoy the van without worry.

 

[markbrown83]

Thanks both.

We are away this weekend so don’t have time to get a wrap before then but will buy one next week.

Well just close the pop top when the weather is meant to be bad. Probably would anyway to be honest regardless of these issues.

 

[stationmaster]

Ditto, due to have 04S post 9/11 replacement in 2 weeks time, torn what to do now.

Wait a while to see how things go. The logical option?

 

[ParachuteMan]

Here's my position. Collected Ocean 29 Sep 23. Watched this thread throughout.

4-5 light to medium rain tests on the drive, back to the light wind, 9 hours in total. No ingress. Watching this thread, I took the plunge and applied water-based seal sealant to front seams only and Fabsil fabric protector to the front. Nothing to the sides.

5-6 nights on dry campsites, obviously no problem. Then 2 nights in a wet Welsh campsite with the Cali facing north, with wind and medium to heavy rain from the west. (I couldn't park with the back into the prevailing westerly wind). Nearside (west) side panel seams started leaking on the right edge after 20-25 minutes; not heavy but consistent and would have continued all night. Front seam (sealed with water-based sealant) one or two very slight and sporadic drips after 45-60 mins. Nothing on the offside (east) side panel. I closed the top - no saturation experienced.

On return, I told my dealer I had a leaker and was honest about the front seam sealant, knowing it might impact the warranty. They are now investigating what the VW position is. I decided to plunge deeper and treated all front and side seams with the Fabsil polymer based seam sealant and both sides with Fabsil waterproofer, just to see if this will work and avoid the ongoing replacement bellows saga. This will be tested on a 4 day trip next week in Lancashire.

I know that VW may well say Tango Sierra and I've invalidated the warranty. In that case, I have several options:

1. The Fabsil protection works.
2. Always park the Cali back into wind
3. Use the Comfortz cali topper I have (bombproof but a bit fiddly to put on, especially for a single night)
4. Pay for a replacement bellows. This means I can wait until it's clear which OSx version really works and I can demand this is fitted.

Next week will be interesting...

 

[Maidment_Ocean]

Here's my position. Collected Ocean 29 Sep 23. Watched this thread throughout.

4-5 light to medium rain tests on the drive, back to the light wind, 9 hours in total. No ingress. Watching this thread, I took the plunge and applied water-based seal sealant to front seams only and Fabsil fabric protector to the front. Nothing to the sides.

5-6 nights on dry campsites, obviously no problem. Then 2 nights in a wet Welsh campsite with the Cali facing north, with wind and medium to heavy rain from the west. (I couldn't park with the back into the prevailing westerly wind). Nearside (west) side panel seams started leaking on the right edge after 20-25 minutes; not heavy but consistent and would have continued all night. Front seam (sealed with water-based sealant) one or two very slight and sporadic drips after 45-60 mins. Nothing on the offside (east) side panel. I closed the top - no saturation experienced.

On return, I told my dealer I had a leaker and was honest about the front seam sealant, knowing it might impact the warranty. They are now investigating what the VW position is. I decided to plunge deeper and treated all front and side seams with the Fabsil polymer based seam sealant and both sides with Fabsil waterproofer, just to see if this will work and avoid the ongoing replacement bellows saga. This will be tested on a 4 day trip next week in Lancashire.

I know that VW may well say Tango Sierra and I've invalidated the warranty. In that case, I have several options:

1. The Fabsil protection works.
2. Always park the Cali back into wind
3. Use the Comfortz cali topper I have (bombproof but a bit fiddly to put on, especially for a single night)
4. Pay for a replacement bellows. This means I can wait until it's clear which OSx version really works and I can demand this is fitted.

Next week will be interesting...

Be interesting if the full Fabsil treatment works!, good luck

 

[markbrown83]

Just came across this thread...

Seems like same problem and it's not a 6.1.

Water seeping through bellows

Hi We have a 2017 California and the water bleeds through the bellows side panels very badly. Upstairs is unuseable in wind/rain. My dealer can not replicate the problem with his hosepipe and therefor says the problem is unwarrantable so I must pay £1100 to buy new bellows. He does not know why...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[Corradobrit]

Here's my position. Collected Ocean 29 Sep 23. Watched this thread throughout.

4-5 light to medium rain tests on the drive, back to the light wind, 9 hours in total. No ingress. Watching this thread, I took the plunge and applied water-based seal sealant to front seams only and Fabsil fabric protector to the front. Nothing to the sides.

5-6 nights on dry campsites, obviously no problem. Then 2 nights in a wet Welsh campsite with the Cali facing north, with wind and medium to heavy rain from the west. (I couldn't park with the back into the prevailing westerly wind). Nearside (west) side panel seams started leaking on the right edge after 20-25 minutes; not heavy but consistent and would have continued all night. Front seam (sealed with water-based sealant) one or two very slight and sporadic drips after 45-60 mins. Nothing on the offside (east) side panel. I closed the top - no saturation experienced.

On return, I told my dealer I had a leaker and was honest about the front seam sealant, knowing it might impact the warranty. They are now investigating what the VW position is. I decided to plunge deeper and treated all front and side seams with the Fabsil polymer based seam sealant and both sides with Fabsil waterproofer, just to see if this will work and avoid the ongoing replacement bellows saga. This will be tested on a 4 day trip next week in Lancashire.

I know that VW may well say Tango Sierra and I've invalidated the warranty. In that case, I have several options:

1. The Fabsil protection works.
2. Always park the Cali back into wind
3. Use the Comfortz cali topper I have (bombproof but a bit fiddly to put on, especially for a single night)
4. Pay for a replacement bellows. This means I can wait until it's clear which OSx version really works and I can demand this is fitted.

Next week will be interesting...

Get a 5 gallon jug. You're going to need to retreat every season.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Get a 5 gallon jug. You're going to need to retreat every season.

Definitely not the way to go while in warranty unless you get VW/dealer to authorise that. The instructions specifically say to not treat the fabric with anything, do so and you'll probably struggle to ever claim anything relating to the bellows on warranty in future, even if a bona-fide fix appears (assuming we don't already have this with the 04S and we're just see isolated failures).

 

[Corradobrit]

Definitely not the way to go while in warranty unless you get VW/dealer to authorise that. The instructions specifically say to not treat the fabric with anything, do so and you'll probably struggle to ever claim anything relating to the bellows on warranty in future, even if a bona-fide fix appears (assuming we don't already have this with the 04S and we're just see isolated failures).

This would be reserved for bellows out of warranty or 04S that fail in a few years time because VW put a bandaid on the seams to fix the leaks temporarily ie while they are on the hook during the warranty period.

 

[ParachuteMan]

Definitely not the way to go while in warranty unless you get VW/dealer to authorise that. The instructions specifically say to not treat the fabric with anything, do so and you'll probably struggle to ever claim anything relating to the bellows on warranty in future, even if a bona-fide fix appears (assuming we don't already have this with the 04S and we're just see isolated failures).

Yes, I fully realise I am now likely to invalidate the warranty. If Fabsil doesn't work and the topper becomes too much of a hassle, and VW say TS, then my fallback position is to pay for a new bellows myself. At least then, I will have greater say on what is fitted. And it will be clearer as to what bellows version is the real fix.

 

[RockinNRollin]

TBH, once it gets out of warranty, anything is game, although I don't think generous use of a waterproofing agent will necessarily provide a certain win either. A wrap/topper at least is a solid, if slightly faffy, long term solution in the absence of any other.

 

[ParachuteMan]

TBH, once it gets out of warranty, anything is game, although I don't think generous use of a waterproofing agent will necessarily provide a certain win either. A wrap/topper at least is a solid, if slightly faffy, long term solution in the absence of any other.

Certainly agree about the topper - I need to practice more to get it slicker. Fabsil: yes, we shall see. Purchasing a new bellows: a costly fallback, but I’ve factored that in to my plans.

Brave but foolish ? A risk taker ? A Pilgrim ? Too impatient ? An idiot even ? I think all of these could apply to me In certain degrees. Only time will tell. (But don’t try this at home …)

 

[lohr500]

I can see the attraction in trying Fabsil or similar rather than a long journey to a dealer, being without the vehicle for days, worrying if the replacement will be any better and what collateral damage might be done in fitting new bellows.

I have used Fabsil before on synthetic tents, Land Rover canvas and dinghy top covers. No ill effects on any and good results on all.

If our 2024 dated 04S A bellows do end up leaking (which they didn't in a reasonable downpour earlier in the week) then I will need to think hard about what to do.

I've been there before with warranty issues and gave up with Jeep when they were unable to replace the rear heated window for three months due to a lack of replacement glass. A blob of two pack electrically conducting glue was all that was needed to reattach the power tab to the heating element. They told me if I tried to repair it, they wouldn't cover any subsequent warranty on it. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and get on with it.
And don't get me started on Jeep's inability to fix the front parking sensors after three attempts. Two dealers and Jeep UK technical were involved. Several weeks with the Wrangler stuck in dealerships. In the end I diagnosed that the wrong electronic module had been fitted at the factory and had to tell them how to fix it!

 

[Paul1]

Here's my position. Collected Ocean 29 Sep 23. Watched this thread throughout.

4-5 light to medium rain tests on the drive, back to the light wind, 9 hours in total. No ingress. Watching this thread, I took the plunge and applied water-based seal sealant to front seams only and Fabsil fabric protector to the front. Nothing to the sides.

5-6 nights on dry campsites, obviously no problem. Then 2 nights in a wet Welsh campsite with the Cali facing north, with wind and medium to heavy rain from the west. (I couldn't park with the back into the prevailing westerly wind). Nearside (west) side panel seams started leaking on the right edge after 20-25 minutes; not heavy but consistent and would have continued all night. Front seam (sealed with water-based sealant) one or two very slight and sporadic drips after 45-60 mins. Nothing on the offside (east) side panel. I closed the top - no saturation experienced.

On return, I told my dealer I had a leaker and was honest about the front seam sealant, knowing it might impact the warranty. They are now investigating what the VW position is. I decided to plunge deeper and treated all front and side seams with the Fabsil polymer based seam sealant and both sides with Fabsil waterproofer, just to see if this will work and avoid the ongoing replacement bellows saga. This will be tested on a 4 day trip next week in Lancashire.

I know that VW may well say Tango Sierra and I've invalidated the warranty. In that case, I have several options:

1. The Fabsil protection works.
2. Always park the Cali back into wind
3. Use the Comfortz cali topper I have (bombproof but a bit fiddly to put on, especially for a single night)
4. Pay for a replacement bellows. This means I can wait until it's clear which OSx version really works and I can demand this is fitted.

Next week will be interesting...

Reimo roof products seem to be good reliable and waterproof. Think if they could be fitted to a Cali would be a better option if having to buy a dodgy VW replacement.

 

[Fish111111111.]

Does anyone use a bungee cord on these new thicker pop tops?

No Never, i believe they do more damage than good. the current bellows in my experience folds away very well.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

No Never, i believe they do more damage than good. the current bellows in my experience folds away very well.

They wont cause any damage if correctlly fitted - ie not too much tension.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

They wont cause any damage if correctlly fitted - ie not too much tension.

Not really needed on the new bellows though as they fold in very reliably. In fact everything about the new bellows is an improvement on previous version (higher quality feel, darker inside due to 2 layers, a bit warmer feeling and a nice light grey lightens up the interior….all good except that they leak…!

 

[ArunAlec]

Reimo roof products seem to be good reliable and waterproof. Think if they could be fitted to a Cali would be a better option if having to buy a dodgy VW replacement.

I think you’d find it pretty much impossible to get a non VW bellows to fit as there are too many variables in the dimensions. Mind you if Reimo were to design a OEM replacement..