Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Jimmylondon07]

Sure. A wrap will work for some.

No brainer?

They could be a little tricky if your'e on your own, or maybe if your're less tall, less fit...

Yeah not so easy on your own I agree, but then I’d probably just keep the roof down whilst raining in that case.

I carry 2x collapsible 11” footstools in the underbed draw which definitely make the fitting job a bit easier when there’s a couple of you. I also assume (maybe wrongly) that the Cali requires a basic level of fitness in itself with all the lifting/moving/climbing you need to do to make use of it! I don’t find putting the wrap on any more physically taxing than climbing in to the roof bed for example.

 

[Maidment_Ocean]

Yeah not so easy on your own I agree, but then I’d probably just keep the roof down whilst raining in that case.

I carry 2x collapsible 11” footstools in the underbed draw which definitely make the fitting job a bit easier when there’s a couple of you. I also assume (maybe wrongly) that the Cali requires a basic level of fitness in itself with all the lifting/moving/climbing you need to do to make use of it! I don’t find putting the wrap on any more physically taxing than climbing in to the roof bed for example.

I use the circular extendable stool they sell at all the shows to fit mine, makes it easier, but you need to have good balance!

 

[stationmaster]

Yeah not so easy on your own I agree, but then I’d probably just keep the roof down whilst raining in that case.

I carry 2x collapsible 11” footstools in the underbed draw which definitely make the fitting job a bit easier when there’s a couple of you. I also assume (maybe wrongly) that the Cali requires a basic level of fitness in itself with all the lifting/moving/climbing you need to do to make use of it! I don’t find putting the wrap on any more physically taxing than climbing in to the roof bed for example.

Foot stools are a good idea. And i largely agree with your other comments

I'm not so keen on the wrap as they are a faff and i am very lazy! Not sure you can help me with that though.

 

[Ethelred]

Am p off with it lay there of a night waiting for the rain dip dip
you think £68 k what a waist of money hope they fix it on first service
it just needs very soft wax over the stiching that’s it like a lip barm type
of wax all over the seams because that’s the only way in

 

[stationmaster]

Not at all. Right now I’m happier with the improved performance of the bellows but I still don’t really see it as being fit for purpose if all 04S behave like this. We’ve not seen this kind of leakage on ours yet, and we may not at all, so difficult to know what to expect. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if all 04S behave in the same way though. Previously we rejected our van as it was basically unusable. That won’t be happening this time because it’s still a really useful vehicle to us and the performance seems to be (so far) a lot better. We have a Comfortz Cali Wrap so we can rest a bit easier in bad weather too. My only concern is when it rains overnight unexpectedly and we aren’t prepared for it as we could get taken by surprise and end up with water everywhere. This would obviously not be good at all and so we would like to see the part revised again so that leakage doesn’t occur at all in normal circumstances if 04S turn out to be too leaky. My only concern and suspicion is that there won’t be enough momentum created by owners to force VW to improve the part again, so we could all be left high and dry. If people are happy to live with it then there just won’t be enough weight there for VW to do anything about it.

Thanks. Can see you've thought it through with care. You may be right about not seeing further revisions to the bellows. If the 04S turns out to be as rubbish, or more rubbish, than the 03S that would not be good.

Academic of course...the 3 layer bellows are superficially a big improvement over the single layer ones, but personally i would have preferred the single layer to have stayed and had less hassle.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Thanks. Can see you've thought it through with care. You may be right about not seeing further revisions to the bellows. If the 04S turns out to be as rubbish, or more rubbish, than the 03S that would not be good.

Academic of course...the 3 layer bellows are superficially a big improvement over the single layer ones, but personally i would have preferred the single layer to have stayed and had less hassle.

Yes exactly. The thing that gets me though is it’s a £70k plus vehicle and it doesn’t work properly. Assuming 04S doesn’t work then it feels totally against the grain to just accept that. I would take this up further with VW and see what comes of it.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Thanks. Can see you've thought it through with care. You may be right about not seeing further revisions to the bellows. If the 04S turns out to be as rubbish, or more rubbish, than the 03S that would not be good.

Academic of course...the 3 layer bellows are superficially a big improvement over the single layer ones, but personally i would have preferred the single layer to have stayed and had less hassle.

I don’t think 04S is more rubbish than 03S from what I’ve read on other people’s experiences. On the contrary it appears to be a lot better, but other people’s experiences do indicate that eventually it can’t hold back the leakage. It kind of makes sense because the front window must be filling with water if the black strip stops it leaking out. It’s bound to hold back the initial leakage. Eventuallly though there just can’t be enough room for the water anymore so it will have to overflow somewhere. When it does that it sounds like it appears to suddenly let go.

There could be a further revision to 04S, but only if people make enough noise. My impression is it’ll take the average camper longer to notice the issue and so it’ll probably be experienced less, and I think people are feeling quite fatigued by it now. If 04S appears to be inadequate after some further evidence then I’m up for taking the case further though. We should stick together as best we can to argue the case if the part appears not fit for purpose.

 

[stationmaster]

Yes exactly. The thing that gets me though is it’s a £70k plus vehicle and it doesn’t work properly. Assuming 04S doesn’t work then it feels totally against the grain to just accept that. I would take this up further with VW and see what comes of it.

I get what you're saying. If VW decide that the 04S is the end of their efforts (and remember the production line is to shut down shortly), will they really be in the mood to listen to us and change their mind? One thing i have learned is that there is a time to be pragmatic and move on sometimes.

Put another way...(and I'm unsure where i am on this at the moment), it is best to choose your battles

 

[stationmaster]

I don’t think 04S is more rubbish than 03S from what I’ve read on other people’s experiences. On the contrary it appears to be a lot better, but other people’s experiences do indicate that eventually it can’t hold back the leakage. It kind of makes sense because the front window must be filling with water if the black strip stops it leaking out. It’s bound to hold back the initial leakage. Eventuallly though there just can’t be enough room for the water anymore so it will have to overflow somewhere. When it does that it sounds like it appears to suddenly let go.

There could be a further revision to 04S, but only if people make enough noise. My impression is it’ll take the average camper longer to notice the issue and so it’ll probably be experienced less, and I think people are feeling quite fatigued by it now. If 04S appears to be inadequate after some further evidence then I’m up for taking the case further though. We should stick together as best we can to argue the case if the part appears not fit for purpose.

I agree with your analysis on the mechanics of the issue. But i feel it may be better that any leak is gradual and able to be observed - then you can simply put the roof down.

If you can't see it and then you close the roof...

Also i agree people are getting fatigued...and that people should stick together.

I'd like to think this is a battle worth fighting. But i am still in the assessment stage on that one.

 

[GreenMissile]

I don’t think 04S is more rubbish than 03S from what I’ve read on other people’s experiences. On the contrary it appears to be a lot better, but other people’s experiences do indicate that eventually it can’t hold back the leakage. It kind of makes sense because the front window must be filling with water if the black strip stops it leaking out. It’s bound to hold back the initial leakage. Eventuallly though there just can’t be enough room for the water anymore so it will have to overflow somewhere. When it does that it sounds like it appears to suddenly let go.

There could be a further revision to 04S, but only if people make enough noise. My impression is it’ll take the average camper longer to notice the issue and so it’ll probably be experienced less, and I think people are feeling quite fatigued by it now. If 04S appears to be inadequate after some further evidence then I’m up for taking the case further though. We should stick together as best we can to argue the case if the part appears not fit for purpose.

Totally agree. I think as the weather changes and we see the newer California’s exposed to the elements we will get a clearer picture as to whether we have been unlucky in our experience or is the later 04S the real deal? I fear that our experience will be encountered by others.
We cannot let this matter rest, particularly when you consider that the vehicles sold since October 2023 will have a 5 year warranty.

 

[stationmaster]

Totally agree. I think as the weather changes and we see the newer California’s exposed to the elements we will get a clearer picture as to whether we have been unlucky in our experience or is the later 04S the real deal? I fear that our experience will be encountered by others.
We cannot let this matter rest, particularly when you consider that the vehicles sold since October 2023 will have a 5 year warranty.

Looks to me, it is not the few that have been unlucky, it is just as OooOooThe Monkey says: 04S hold back the water for a while, storing it up to come through later - potentially (in my view) worsening the problem.

Will the 5 year warranty help us much? Looks like it may have helped some, but others have found it a little frustrating?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Looks to me, it is not the few that have been unlucky, it is just as OooOooThe Monkey says: 04S hold back the water for a while, storing it up to come through later - potentially (in my view) worsening the problem.

Will the 5 year warranty help us much? Looks like it may have helped some, but others have found it a little frustrating?

If you experience a leak issue and can get a replacement arranged that’s all very well, but without a redesigned part you’ll just have another 04S fitted. In the long run VW need to realise 04S is not adequate too for a long term solution to be made available. But perhaps 04S is adequate….? I don’t know the answer to that yet. What is clear to me though is we all need to test our bellows thoroughly, without wraps or toppers fitted, and be careful to record the conditions experienced so we know if they really are adequate or not.

BTW we can’t just put the roof down on ours if it leaks. We have 2 adults and 2 children so rely on our roof space for sleeping. The Cali wrap will be really useful for us and negate our anxiety about the weather. It’ll just be those occasions where it rains a lot at night and we don’t think ahead. It’s not exactly relaxing to keep looking at weather apps and worrying about overnight leakage.

 

[GreenMissile]

Looks to me, it is not the few that have been unlucky, it is just as OooOooThe Monkey says: 04S hold back the water for a while, storing it up to come through later - potentially (in my view) worsening the problem.

Will the 5 year warranty help us much? Looks like it may have helped some, but others have found it a little frustrating?

The warranty you have to believe will. VW have a run probably until the end of June this year on the 6.1 and if 04S is not the definitive solution to the problem then I do believe that VW will have to pursue a solution as there will be many disgruntled owners. The sooner new owners test their bellows the better for them individually and us as a collective.

 

[markbrown83]

The warranty you have to believe will. VW have a run probably until the end of June this year on the 6.1 and if 04S is not the definitive solution to the problem then I do believe that VW will have to pursue a solution as there will be many disgruntled owners. The sooner new owners test their bellows the better for them individually and us as a collective.

Currently lying in the van on the not so comfort mattress. It’s hard.

No rain at the moment. Only a little tomorrow. But we’ll be out for the day exploring and I’ll be putting the roof down as I don’t want to come back to any unexpected swimming pools.

I was wondering, if you do get a lot of water inside and it damages the floor and electrics. Will this be covered by warranty?

Also good point +OooOooTheMonkey regarding having more than two people in the van. You rely on the roof space being habitable.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

I think I was the first here to get a new vehicle with 04S bellows, at the time I commented that I hadn't had any water leakage. I've had no problems but in fairness I've not really used my Cali that much, only several additional stays.

The wrap seems to be the workaround solution, but it's such a pity as the main attraction of the Cali is it's spontaneity. The wraps may be useful but they add time and hassle and of course take up a little bit more storage. I've decided after just 4 months of ownership I'm chopping it for another van. There are many reasons for this but concern over the bellows leaking was a significant factor. I'm wondering whether this issue is going to start adversely affecting values when the trade learns more about this seemingly unresolved issue?

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Currently lying in the van on the not so comfort mattress. It’s hard.

No rain at the moment. Only a little tomorrow. But we’ll be out for the day exploring and I’ll be putting the roof down as I don’t want to come back to any unexpected swimming pools.

I was wondering, if you do get a lot of water inside and it damages the floor and electrics. Will this be covered by warranty?

Also good point +OooOooTheMonkey regarding having more than two people in the van. You rely on the roof space being habitable.

I had to sleep on the 'comfort' mattress the first night away as the wind was so strong. It ought to be called the blooming un-comfort mattress!

 

[GreenMissile]

Currently lying in the van on the not so comfort mattress. It’s hard.

No rain at the moment. Only a little tomorrow. But we’ll be out for the day exploring and I’ll be putting the roof down as I don’t want to come back to any unexpected swimming pools.

I was wondering, if you do get a lot of water inside and it damages the floor and electrics. Will this be covered by warranty?

Also good point +OooOooTheMonkey regarding having more than two people in the van. You rely on the roof space being habitable.

I do not think it is just about the sleeping situation it is about the time you are parked up. Whether you are cooking in the van or relaxing due to inclement weather, you need the roof up to avoid feeling closed in.
We have spent a lot of additional money to kit out our Ocean over above to make it the leisure vehicle we desired. Yes another £300-£400 on a wrap to resolve the leaking bellows situation seems sensible, but that misses the point completely. The California should be a watertight, end of story!

 

[Jimmylondon07]

I think I was the first here to get a new vehicle with 04S bellows, at the time I commented that I hadn't had any water leakage. I've had no problems but in fairness I've not really used my Cali that much, only several additional stays.

The wrap seems to be the workaround solution, but it's such a pity as the main attraction of the Cali is it's spontaneity. The wraps may be useful but they add time and hassle and of course take up a little bit more storage. I've decided after just 4 months of ownership I'm chopping it for another van. There are many reasons for this but concern over the bellows leaking was a significant factor. I'm wondering whether this issue is going to start adversely affecting values when the trade learns more about this seemingly unresolved issue?

That’s exactly why we need to keep making noise. I know you have some other reasons for swapping to a Sven so quickly Bazza but if it was primarily based on the bellows then it’s just not right on any level that you’d be the one swallowing the losses rather than VW.

It’s the case for all of us whenever we eventually come to sell, we can’t be the ones eating the extra depreciation while VW get away with it.

 

[ChrisTravel]

Picked mine up today it’s amazing but when bellowsgate was touched upon I
was very quickly told by the salesperson the bellows issue has been resolved and if it’s very windy or wet drop the roof..... not what we need to hear for a Campervan for the reasons mentioned above and not reassuring re any future support re issues...wrap ordered immediately will test and report back.

 

[myvanrodney]

Picked mine up today it’s amazing but when bellowsgate was touched upon I
was very quickly told by the salesperson the bellows issue has been resolved and if it’s very windy or wet drop the roof..... not what we need to hear for a Campervan for the reasons mentioned above and not reassuring re any future support re issues...wrap ordered immediately will test and report back.

Who’s the salesperson?

 

[markbrown83]

Hmmm. So not much rain overnight apart from a heavy shower later evening.

In the pop top at the back around the ceiling where the metal is exposed it’s wet but that’s probably condensation. There are water droplets towards the bottom but again probably condensation.

At the front running along the bottom I ran my hand along to see if wet. Corners seemed to be damp. Then along the entire front bottom. Could have caused the wick effect by running fingers along it though.

Went outside and noticed there were droplets of water on the front and rear of the pop top. I also noticed where the rubber rim runs around the bottom of the pop top the water seems to sit on that. Possibly why after a down fall you get so much water ingress. See photo.

I don’t know if what I’m seeing inside at the rear is just condensation or not.

And at the front whether I caused it by running my fingers. But as I sat there was a slight heavy patch of rain late last night but nothing else that I’m aware of.

Don’t hold much hope for a prolonged downpour. They’ll be worse than useless.

As you can see from the photo water sits on the black seal just below the canvas bottom but it also sits along that canvas bottom... which is what I think saturate it around the bottom edges of the inner canvas. As the rain become long and heavier it just gets saturated and has only one way to go... IN!

 

[Camperfamily]

I think you’d find it pretty much impossible to get a non VW bellows to fit as there are too many variables in the dimensions. Mind you if Reimo were to design a OEM replacement..

Hess produce a set

 

[markbrown83]

One other thing I noticed, what do you think to this see through patch - am I already starting off with a faulty Poptop regardless of leaking issues.It looks like the fabric is stretched / thin.

 

[markbrown83]

Just out of interest how long do we have to reject the vehicle if we choose to?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

One other thing I noticed, what do you think to this see through patch - am I already starting off with a faulty Poptop regardless of leaking issues.It looks like the fabric is stretched / thin.

View attachment 120455

That’s where the flap covering the zip on the outside isn’t flush against the zip so light is shining through. Mine does that but then it disappears under tension once the roof is fully up.