Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Ozzy Pete]

We are just down the coast from Vinaros Spain.
Getting here we were subject to some of the worst rain I have ever seen. luckily the forecast of bad weather is just for today and sunny again tomorrow.
We had a brand new bellows fitted October last year when it got trapped when the van was taken in for some work at the main dealers.
This has been the ideal opportunity to see if it actually leaks or not. The roof has been up in heavy rain now for about 3 hours and so far nothing has penetrated at all. Here’s a couple of pics to show how it’s coping.
The first pic shows the material from the inside. The second pic shows how the rain has accumulated on the outside but not penetrated the material.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

We are just down the coast from Vinaros Spain.
Getting here we were subject to some of the worst rain I have ever seen. luckily the forecast of bad weather is just for today and sunny again tomorrow.
We had a brand new bellows fitted October last year when it got trapped when the van was taken in for some work at the main dealers.
This has been the ideal opportunity to see if it actually leaks or not. The roof has been up in heavy rain now for about 3 hours and so far nothing has penetrated at all. Here’s a couple of pics to show how it’s coping.
The first pic shows the material from the inside. The second pic shows how the rain has accumulated on the outside but not penetrated the material.

View attachment 114453

View attachment 114454

Those are the old style bellows and are known to be fine. The problem bellows are the new 2023 onwards twin layer version.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

I think this is a reflection of that dealer and not VW in all fairness.

I wouldn’t be so sure, mine was put up for sale after a few days of my rejection. I know they didn’t fix the roof bellows or even look at them again.

 

[Corradobrit]

Currently in the Bourgogne region of France. Light showers interspersed with waves of medium rain. So far no infiltration.
In other news the leak through the tailgate seal has been fixed after I pulled the seal away from the body 1-2mm.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

We are just down the coast from Vinaros Spain.
Getting here we were subject to some of the worst rain I have ever seen. luckily the forecast of bad weather is just for today and sunny again tomorrow.
We had a brand new bellows fitted October last year when it got trapped when the van was taken in for some work at the main dealers.
This has been the ideal opportunity to see if it actually leaks or not. The roof has been up in heavy rain now for about 3 hours and so far nothing has

View attachment 114453

View attachment 114454

Those are the old style bellows and are known to be fine. The problem bellows are the new 2023 onwards twin layer version.

Our original bellows that came with the van in 2015 were prone to water penetration. I had to use waterproofing on a number of occasions to make good Especially at the back of the van where the water would pour off the roof and splash up onto the canvas.
The new bellows which are a lighter colour material and have the panoramic front ( which I like on both counts) haven’t let one spec of water through. And boy did it rain yesterday.
I cant understand why VW need to mess with things when they occasionally get it right.
The only thing I find with the Panoramic bellows is it’s takes much longer to fold away the front and get the roller door to fit nicely. But like everything California if you take your time it’s eventually fits Right.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I wouldn’t be so sure, mine was put up for sale after a few days of my rejection. I know they didn’t fix the roof bellows or even look at them again.

So are you saying VW are telling the dealers to put the vehicles up for sale? That doesn’t really make sense.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

So are you saying VW are telling the dealers to put the vehicles up for sale? That doesn’t really make sense.

Where did I say vw told dealers that?
I’m saying my dealer put mine up for sale without doing anything to the bellows.
I know that for a Fact, so I’m guessing it’s the dealers decision .

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Some other poor customer is going to fork out their hard earned money , on Vehicle that doesn’t do it’s Job.
This really shows what vw thinks of its customer base .

Here ^^^

 

[Ch1pbutty]

I know that for a Fact, so I’m guessing it’s the dealers decision .

They are just delaying the issue bringing it closer to the warranty expiry date. Then it becomes the buyers cost to rectify.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

Here ^^^

That could also mean vw as in thee dealership.
They’re all vw aren’t they?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

That could also mean vw as in thee dealership.
They’re all vw aren’t they?

Oh ok. No they’re not. As this thread has shown they all react and behave completely differently too.

 

[scabrero]

Wow ok. I’m sorry to hear you decided to reject. And quite shocked to hear they ignored the issue and just put it straight up for sale. Goes to show how seriously this dealer takes the leaking bellows problem…!

I am not surprised. Why should they worry about fixing it if there is people willing to buy and keep a defective vehicle? There are many examples in this forum.

 

[Kayleigh]

I am not surprised. Why should they worry about fixing it if there is people willing to buy and keep a defective vehicle? There are many examples in this forum.

I have to admit I was quite surprised to see my California back up for sale before I had been refunded.

The dealer will not be bothered by any issues as they will just be treated as warranty items for the ‘mutual benefit of the client and themselves’. Their words not mine!

Any prospective buyer is likely not going to see the pimples on the roof, leaking bellows or rusted scissors before they purchase. They probably won’t notice the cracked B pillar panel either. Of course they could check out the videos I put on YouTube.

 

[Corradobrit]

Well you can add me to the list of leakers. I was on the fence until tonights storm rolled through. Drips started on semi circular zipper and got steadily worse. Took some video to show the dealer when I get home and closed the poptop. I saw enough.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I hope it resolves the leaks, but I’m sure I read on the German forum that the C version was still problematic. That was back in late July though.

I heard/read that too. I'm having a new canvas fitted on Wednesday next week but not without some nervousness on my side.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Well you can add me to the list of leakers. I was on the fence until tonights storm rolled through. Drips started on semi circular zipper and got steadily worse. Took some video to show the dealer when I get home and closed the poptop. I saw enough.

Sorry to hear this. How long did it take to start coming through?

 

[Corradobrit]

Sorry to hear this. How long did it take to start coming through?

About 2 mins for the first droplets to appear along the stitching for the front semi circular window and then less than 10 mins for a steady drip-drip to develop at the corners of the window.
From what I observed the poptop is absolutely unusable in medium to heavy rain. The wind was not excessive.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Wow that’s quick, I had mine up in a pretty heavy downpour yesterday and it didn’t leak, must have been exposed for about 40 minutes. Trying it again today as it looks like we have pretty consistent rain between 11 and 1 where I am.

 

[Corradobrit]

When I get back to Hannover next week I will be taking my complaint and video, as well as linking them to this extensive thread and the identical one on Calibord, directly to the Factory Customer Center and hear what they have to say.

 

[NorCal]

I would like to see the brief to the VW procurement department and design team for the revision of the roof bellows. I imagine there will be a cost saving requirement, but perhaps a design objective was to make the fabric fold better when closing the roof, and avoid the issue of damage if it become trapped in the mechanism. The law of unintended consequences…

 

[Joncali2023!!]

Wow that’s quick, I had mine up in a pretty heavy downpour yesterday and it didn’t leak, must have been exposed for about 40 minutes. Trying it again today as it looks like we have pretty consistent rain between 11 and 1 where I am.

It’s a strange one, I had a heavy downpour whilst in mine Whig lasted a Few hours , it didn’t leak.
Then another Time had a light “fine” period of rain for most of the day (on and off) and it leaked terrible.
I could never put my finger on when it would Leak, or if it would leak during bad weather.

 

[Kayleigh]

About 2 mins for the first droplets to appear along the stitching for the front semi circular window and then less than 10 mins for a steady drip-drip to develop at the corners of the window.
From what I observed the poptop is absolutely unusable in medium to heavy rain. The wind was not excessive.

That’s the pattern I saw too. Water will come through the stitching of the semi-circular zip rather than the zip itself. It will also run down the zip to the corners of the window.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

It’s a strange one, I had a heavy downpour whilst in mine Whig lasted a Few hours , it didn’t leak.
Then another Time had a light “fine” period of rain for most of the day (on and off) and it leaked terrible.
I could never put my finger on when it would Leak, or if it would leak during bad weather.

Yeah it does seem very inconsistent as it sounds like Corradobrit's leaked in stormier conditions. Do you remember how you were parked to the wind when it didn't leak vs when it did?

 

[.Billy Ocean.]

It’s a strange one, I had a heavy downpour whilst in mine Whig lasted a Few hours , it didn’t leak.
Then another Time had a light “fine” period of rain for most of the day (on and off) and it leaked terrible.
I could never put my finger on when it would Leak, or if it would leak during bad weather.

Ours is the same, persistent light rain… leaks. Thunderstorm and heavy rain last night… no leaks… well not from the bellows anyway. The whole roof seal leaked again, we thought we’d ‘fixed’ it by gently moving the seal a bit but apparently not.

Regards our response from VW, this arrived on the 12th Sept (no privacy spiel on the email so I’m sharing in full)…

I am contacting you in relation to your recent email about issues with leaking bellows that you have experienced on your vehicle.

I understand that at any age or mileage this will be very disappointing. As a manufacturer, we pride ourselves in the great quality and build of our vehicle’s. We understand that although we manufacture our vehicles to be reliable and long lasting, they are sometimes subject to failures.

I would request if you can book your vehicle in to your nearest Volkswagen Commercial Retailer to have the vehicle assessed for this issue. We are currently asking all owners who are experincing this issue to have the vehicle diagnosed as the matter is currently being investigated by Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles.

A full list of van centres is available at www.volkswagen-vans. co.uk.

I will look forward to your contact once you have had your vehicle diagnosed at the Van Centre.


Kind regards

Shahid Khan CUSTOMER RELATIONS MANAGER

T: 0800 7834 909 E: customercare@vwcv.co.uk Volkswagen UK Volkswagen Group United Kingdom Yeomans Drive Blakelands Milton Keynes MK14 5AN www.volkswagen.co.uk

 

[Corradobrit]

It’s a strange one, I had a heavy downpour whilst in mine Whig lasted a Few hours , it didn’t leak.
Then another Time had a light “fine” period of rain for most of the day (on and off) and it leaked terrible.
I could never put my finger on when it would Leak, or if it would leak during bad weather.

I uploaded a video demonstrating how quickly the water infiltration gains momentum. This was the scariest part. Once the outer fabric is saturated a wicking effect occurs and the water starts to pour in. For me it didn't start at the horizontal seam but along the curved zipper for the semi circular window. At the end of the video I dropped the poptop and but the water continues to leak as the fabric is soaked. I left a bunch of towels on the seats and the front fabric hanging down.

And this is how it all started. A total of about 5 min from this droplet to me dropping the poptop.