Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[CaliBaba]

I wouldn’t be happy with this, I was told by Volkswagen customer service that the reason they went from the single layer to the double was because the single layer was causing huge amounts of condensation, roof liner issues and roof rust.

The sooner everyone with issues rejects the vehicles the better , I actually can’t believe people are keeping hold of a vehicle that’s not fit for purpose.
You wouldn’t keep a dish washer , a fridge, a car , a tent or anything else that didn’t work.

It’s actually mind boggling.

In my ownership of a 2019 T6 Ocean, I have no issues regarding condensation, roof liner issues or roof rust so perhaps not necessarily the most correct response from whoever you spoke with at VW Customer Service.
Out of curiosity, why do you feel the need to beat the drum for vehicle rejection? I think your point was made on your approach to the leaking bellows issue and while that approach worked satisfactorily for you, it might not necessarily be how others wish to address their issue.

 

[CaliforniaSeb]

As one gets older one gets more pragmatic. We had a very small leak via the tailgate five hours into a storm with the roof up. We love our Cali and want to get on and have fun. Whilst returning the camper could be an option, many of us have waited a long time to get one. What are the real better alternatives out there at the moment? Prices are going up all the time. What is the waiting time on another Cali or an alternative camper? Our Cali is a very slightly flawed example of a fantastic camper van. It will get sorted.

Don't get e wrong , the leaking pop top issue is a lot more serious and inconvenient than our issue. However, if it were my van leaking I would wait to get it resolved. Push hard as everyone is doing here to get VW to pull their finger out.

Thirty years ago I might well have returned the van in haste for a refund . Then been all over this thread trying to justify my decision and wondering if I had acted rashly!

Personally, I would hang on. It will get fixed one way or another.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

As one gets older one gets more pragmatic. We had a very small leak via the tailgate five hours into a storm with the roof up. We love our Cali and want to get on and have fun. Whilst returning the camper could be an option, many of us have waited a long time to get one. What are the real better alternatives out there at the moment? Prices are going up all the time. What is the waiting time on another Cali or an alternative camper? Our Cali is a very slightly flawed example of a fantastic camper van. It will get sorted.

Don't get e wrong , the leaking pop top issue is a lot more serious and inconvenient than our issue. However, if it were my van leaking I would wait to get it resolved. Push hard as everyone is doing here to get VW to pull their finger out.

Thirty years ago I might well have returned the van in haste for a refund . Then been all over this thread trying to justify my decision and wondering if I had acted rashly!

Personally, I would hang on. It will get fixed one way or another.

Well I'd be ok with a few drops of rain in an orange weather warning but a showery night with big puddles in each corner is a real issue.

So, ours was returned for diagnosis weeks ago and a report submitted to VW. I called today because we are away in the dry and one of the pop top pistons has failed. Apparently VW haven't approved the bellows repairs and want the van back for more diagnosis, bellows version and so on.

The van now needs to go back for further diagnosis and repair of the pop top piston.

Our first 2 nighter away we spent the second night mopping up.

Our second trip half way through we have to live without the extra space. Actually relieved the pop top closed.

Looks like when raising the pop top you need a spotter outside to make sure this doesn't happen.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Mine and many others are fit for purpose, those that have a roof leak have a simple quick fix of an external topper whilst a permanent solution is sought.

I don't consider my leaking roof fit for purpose by investing in a waterproof cover!!

Presently I'm pushing for a fix but at some point within 6 months it has to be rejected if VW continue their denial.

 

[Corradobrit]

Well I'd be ok with a few drops of rain in an orange weather warning but a showery night with big puddles in each corner is a real issue.

So, ours was returned for diagnosis weeks ago and a report submitted to VW. I called today because we are away in the dry and one of the pop top pistons has failed. Apparently VW haven't approved the bellows repairs and want the van back for more diagnosis, bellows version and so on.

The van now needs to go back for further diagnosis and repair of the pop top piston.

Our first 2 nighter away we spent the second night mopping up.

Our second trip half way through we have to live without the extra space. Actually relieved the pop top closed.

Looks like when raising the pop top you need a spotter outside to make sure this doesn't happen.

View attachment 114064

Crikey that really did fail. Chances are that aluminium roof is warped now. I would have it carefully checked and insist on a replacement if not completely straight.

 

[NessL]

Well I'd be ok with a few drops of rain in an orange weather warning but a showery night with big puddles in each corner is a real issue.

So, ours was returned for diagnosis weeks ago and a report submitted to VW. I called today because we are away in the dry and one of the pop top pistons has failed. Apparently VW haven't approved the bellows repairs and want the van back for more diagnosis, bellows version and so on.

The van now needs to go back for further diagnosis and repair of the pop top piston.

Our first 2 nighter away we spent the second night mopping up.

Our second trip half way through we have to live without the extra space. Actually relieved the pop top closed.

Looks like when raising the pop top you need a spotter outside to make sure this doesn't happen.

View attachment 114064

A couple of years ago there were quite a lot of people reporting issues with their roof dropping, but I’ve never seen one anything near as bad as that!

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

Reply from VWCV, there maybe light at the end of the tunnel (a pin prick).

"I do apologise for the inconvenience your bellows are leaking, I can confirm that this has been taken up with the technical team that they are aware of this and there has not been a fix put in place.

As soon as there is a fix for this you will be contacted and advised, so this can be fixed for you."

Not sure if they are aware of my below or aware of an issue with bellows in general.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Reply from VWCV, there maybe light at the end of the tunnel (a pin prick).

"I do apologise for the inconvenience your bellows are leaking, I can confirm that this has been taken up with the technical team that they are aware of this and there has not been a fix put in place.

As soon as there is a fix for this you will be contacted and advised, so this can be fixed for you."

Not sure if they are aware of my below or aware of an issue with bellows in general.

This is extremely promising…

 

[Monty6]

Watching this thread with interest. I cancelled a recent order for an Ocean due to the postings here raising the issue. Hoping to re-order when/if VW sort a fix.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Watching this thread with interest. I cancelled a recent order for an Ocean due to the postings here raising the issue. Hoping to re-order when/if VW sort a fix.

You don’t have long. My money is on the order book closing after the end of this month.

 

[Kayleigh]

You don’t have long. My money is on the order book closing after the end of this month.

Are current lead times still about 3 months?
If so, VW could still be taking orders into early next year.
I wouldn’t put money on it though , and there will likely be no notice when it happens!

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Watching this thread with interest. I cancelled a recent order for an Ocean due to the postings here raising the issue. Hoping to re-order when/if VW sort a fix.

You should email customercare@vwcv.co.uk and share your decision.

Everything will help to ensure a proper resolution before production stops.

 

[Corradobrit]

After seeing the Multivan concept I think remaining order slots are filling at pace.

 

[ParachuteMan]

Watching this thread with interest. I cancelled a recent order for an Ocean due to the postings here raising the issue. Hoping to re-order when/if VW sort a fix.

Hi. Sorry to hear of your disappointment. I have one on order, due delivery early-mid Oct. I’ve decided to proceed although I know of the concerns raised on the Forum. I’ll give it a go to see if it leaks and if necessary, buy a pop top cover As I can’t be bothered with back and forth to the dealer if the problem occurs. I’m trying to find the number of Oceans built in 2023 to assess the probability of leaks but I’m struggling. Maybe I’m too trusting but i think the advantages outweigh this issue - which might not apply to all of them.

 

[calibusje]

Someone I know had the canvas replaced under warranty a few days ago and will let us know as soon as possible if it is leak-free; Volkswagen would have recognized it in the meantime (according to its dealer) and the canvas would now be as it should be (and be made again in Germany).

I changed the photo slightly because this is not my cali.
I hope so because another person with a 6 month old California will have his canvas replaced for the third time.
I still have the previous single layer cloth (now 17 months old) and it is leak-free so I have no insight into it myself and only read about the problem. I can only hope that it is ok now and that the affected people can get it replaced free of charge.
I wish you all the best.

 

[Kayleigh]

Someone I know had the canvas replaced under warranty a few days ago and will let us know as soon as possible if it is leak-free; Volkswagen would have recognized it in the meantime (according to its dealer) and the canvas would now be as it should be (and be made again in Germany).
View attachment 114182
I changed the photo slightly because this is not my cali.
I hope so because another person with a 6 month old California will have his canvas replaced for the third time.
I still have the previous single layer cloth (now 17 months old) and it is leak-free so I have no insight into it myself and only read about the problem. I can only hope that it is ok now and that the affected people can get it replaced free of charge.
I wish you all the best.

Is that another one in the background without bellows as well?

 

[calibusje]

Is that another one in the background without bellows as well?

I think so but not sure because it’s somebody I know who was there, not me but I can ask: if there are more since volkswagen supposedly acknowledges the error.

 

[Andy C Berks.]

Some progress - hopefully positive - I have had a call from Shahid at VWCS this afternoon advising that he has been appointed to coordinate the leaking pop top issues. In essence saying that he Is collating details of those of us with leaking roofs, and will be raising that with the “factory”. So no indication of a fix at this stage, but a clear sign that there is now some traction in the UK. Indicated that his view is that there is no point replacing bellows with a like-for-like replacement until they hear what the factory has to say. Similarly isn’t able to authorise a pop top cover until he has a feel for what the likely response will be from VW around fix/timings. Felt like he was listening though and had a good grasp that this was more than just a few people moaning, so I would say encouraging at this stage that there is the beginnings of a coordinated response. He did say that I would get an introductory email from him, and I then should get regular updates on what’s happening - he suggested weekly was the aim.

So for those of you that have registered your complaint of leaky bellows with VWCS, expect a call.

If you haven’t yet put it on record via the VWCS email address then I would suggest it’s worth doing, even if your dealer is handling it, as that will ensure you are in the statistics and hopefully the email updates going forward. The email address is customercare@vwcv.co.uk

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Some progress - hopefully positive - I have had a call from Shahid at VWCS this afternoon advising that he has been appointed to coordinate the leaking pop top issues. In essence saying that he Is collating details of those of us with leaking roofs, and will be raising that with the “factory”. So no indication of a fix at this stage, but a clear sign that there is now some traction in the UK. Indicated that his view is that there is no point replacing bellows with a like-for-like replacement until they hear what the factory has to say. Similarly isn’t able to authorise a pop top cover until he has a feel for what the likely response will be from VW around fix/timings. Felt like he was listening though and had a good grasp that this was more than just a few people moaning, so I would say encouraging at this stage that there is the beginnings of a coordinated response. He did say that I would get an introductory email from him, and I then should get regular updates on what’s happening - he suggested weekly was the aim.

So for those of you that have registered your complaint of leaky bellows with VWCS, expect a call.

If you haven’t yet put it on record via the VWCS email address then I would suggest it’s worth doing, even if your dealer is handling it, as that will ensure you are in the statistics and hopefully the email updates going forward. The email address is customercare@vwcv.co.uk

This is great news, thanks for contacting VWCS and sharing the communication.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Some progress - hopefully positive - I have had a call from Shahid at VWCS this afternoon advising that he has been appointed to coordinate the leaking pop top issues. In essence saying that he Is collating details of those of us with leaking roofs, and will be raising that with the “factory”. So no indication of a fix at this stage, but a clear sign that there is now some traction in the UK. Indicated that his view is that there is no point replacing bellows with a like-for-like replacement until they hear what the factory has to say. Similarly isn’t able to authorise a pop top cover until he has a feel for what the likely response will be from VW around fix/timings. Felt like he was listening though and had a good grasp that this was more than just a few people moaning, so I would say encouraging at this stage that there is the beginnings of a coordinated response. He did say that I would get an introductory email from him, and I then should get regular updates on what’s happening - he suggested weekly was the aim.

So for those of you that have registered your complaint of leaky bellows with VWCS, expect a call.

If you haven’t yet put it on record via the VWCS email address then I would suggest it’s worth doing, even if your dealer is handling it, as that will ensure you are in the statistics and hopefully the email updates going forward. The email address is customercare@vwcv.co.uk

Let's hope there's some traction to this.

I sent my email to VWCV customer care last Wednesday so looking forward to receiving my call.

 

[Andy C Berks.]

Let's hope there's some traction to this.

I sent my email to VWCV customer care last Wednesday so looking forward to receiving my call.

I had chased them via email a couple of times in the last week or so, and heard nothing until the call today. He did apologise that nobody had replied sooner, but from what he said it sounded like they had gone silent on external comms on this issue for a few days whilst figuring out next steps which you can sort of understand. It was about 5.30 this evening I got the call so hopefully you and others will get something soon. I will feedback when I get anything further.

 

[.Billy Ocean.]

I had chased them via email a couple of times in the last week or so, and heard nothing until the call today. He did apologise that nobody had replied sooner, but from what he said it sounded like they had gone silent on external comms on this issue for a few days whilst figuring out next steps which you can sort of understand. It was about 5.30 this evening I got the call so hopefully you and others will get something soon. I will feedback when I get anything further.

Thanks for the updates Andy, we’re still waiting on the promised call back from the Exec Office that was due on the 1st September, hopefully we may also hear something soon - we just want something acknowledging there is an issue and that VW plan to rectify it at some point.

 

[I feel camping]

Hi guys, especially experienced(senior ) members.
After looking at german cali forum, I see a lot of post of defects of bellows, slipping from position, material torring,....
Was this always the case and is this now only more exposed because of leaking problems.
What do you think?

 

[Kayleigh]

Hi guys, especially experienced(senior ) members.
After looking at german cali forum, I see a lot of post of defects of bellows, slipping from position, material torring,....
Was this always the case and is this now only more exposed because of leaking problems.
What do you think?

One of the issues with the previous fabric was that it did not stretch well and could be pulled out at the corners when the roof is up. This is particularly true on the Ocean where the fabric is under a higher tension than with a manual roof.

One would assume that the new fabric was designed to counter this, but obviously had other unintended consequences.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

I wondered whether to start a new survey / post or ask the question here. I'll start with here...

Anyone on here taken delivery of a California since 01st August 23?

If so, do your bellows:

Leak
Watertight
Don't know