Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Cali Down Under]

ahhh what i meant was the pre 2023 bellows - possibly a downgrade but apparently no leakage. and just until the fix comes through. I feel so sad having gone this far with such tenacity that you might have to give it all away and let your cali go.

 

[RockinNRollin]

ahhh what i meant was the pre 2023 bellows - possibly a downgrade but apparently no leakage. and just until the fix comes through. I feel so sad having gone this far with such tenacity that you might have to give it all away and let your cali go.

I don’t think the previous generation bellows are available anymore - someone on here was after a replacement for their 5.1 (I think) and were given the latest bellows.

 

[Robert&Catherine]

Hi, I had my leaking canvas bellows replaced last week with the new "C" version. Sadly I have to report that it leaked when it rained overnight on Saturday. Rain was light as was the wind. The leaks were centred around the seams and the stitching. Annoying to say the least!! Getting ready to reject the vehicle and request a refund.

I was concerned to hear that you had multiple leaks even under light rain and wind conditions. Is that the experience of any other owners as well? I am not sure if I have just been lucky but I have rented a Cali (early 23 plate) with the new bellows and now own one (73 plate). Have not had any ingress on either but assumed it was because I had not yet experienced the right type of rain / wind combo. Certainly experienced some bad weather in both calis. Is anyone else in the same position? Don’t want to do the spray test yet as I prefer this denial stage!

 

[Corradobrit]

Don’t want to do the spray test yet as I prefer this denial stage!

I was in exactly the same mindset. A few showers and everything looked great. Then a short spell of medium to heavy rain but little wind and the bellows leaked at an alarming rate. And I knew when the bellows was getting a proper test, when the large saturating droplets fell.
Everyone needs to know if their bellows leak and report this to VW asap. It's the critical mass of owners that will benefit everyone in getting a proper reaction and fix.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I think it’s only natural to feel that way as well, I did too. You’ve spent a lot of money on something, the idea of throwing a load of water at it which is very likely to make its way inside is totally counter-intuitive to the reaction most people have when buying something new; look at what folks spend on things like professional ceramic coatings to protect their vans.

However it just needs to be done, and when you’re doing it with a hose rather than a live weather situation on a campsite it’s very easy to have everything covered up in advance and stop the test at a point you’re no longer comfortable with.

For anyone on the fence, just do it

I agree 100% if the problem is not reported then VW don't know how big this problem is and consequently will not be able to react in an appropriate way.

If you think you may have a problem with ingress of water do the test and report it. Do not delay. Demand action.

 

[Jabberwocky]

ahhh what i meant was the pre 2023 bellows - possibly a downgrade but apparently no leakage. and just until the fix comes through. I feel so sad having gone this far with such tenacity that you might have to give it all away and let your cali go.

Indeed, I would love to be able to install a pre '23 bellows but unfortunately that part number is not available and longer. Why? I have no idea.

 

[Cali Down Under]

Indeed, I would love to be able to install a pre '23 bellows but unfortunately that part number is not available and longer. Why? I have no idea.

that is truly ridiculous!! and soul destroying…….

 

[CallsignCalifornia]

Hi, I had my leaking canvas bellows replaced last week with the new "C" version. Sadly I have to report that it leaked when it rained overnight on Saturday. Rain was light as was the wind. The leaks were centred around the seams and the stitching. Annoying to say the least!! Getting ready to reject the vehicle and request a refund.

Hi Jabberwocky,

I'm also in the same boat. I love the van, it's great in almost every way but I can't justify spending so much money on something that leaks and has no fix on the horizon. My use case for the van is winter surfing/camping, boards on the roof so most covers won't work either. Plus I just don't think I should have to use a third party accessory to enjoy a 70k van. Very frustrating and causing quite the headache!

 

[Kayleigh]

I agree 100% if the problem is not reported then VW don't know how big this problem is and consequently will not be able to react in an appropriate way.

Yes, it’s important to report issues and bring it to the attention of VWCV. But it’s down to how VW handle it internally from then on, and that’s the most frustrating part of this situation. We all by now know this is a product design issue. While the individual components are presumably fine, the combination of fabric, thread, needle and stretching has created a final product that is not fit for purpose.

The VW product design team are not stupid and will know this is a fundamental design problem. It’s all down to how it is managed internally and maybe the right people are still unaware. They are clearly committed to this style of fabric as we saw the Multivan California using a very similar one. So a solution will need to be found. As someone else mentioned, the cogs turn very slowly, which is very frustrating for owners.

So in my opinion, keep making noise with VWCV through dealers and directly. I haven’t been an owner long enough to know how long it took to provide a ‘solution’ for the T5 roof corrosion, but I think that would be a good benchmark for what to expect.

 

[Corradobrit]

They are clearly committed to this style of fabric as we saw the Multivan California using a very similar one.

I would say, based on my observation of images and video, that the stitch pattern and use of a new 3 layer fabric is quite a major departure from the current 2 layer sieve.

 

[Kayleigh]

I would say, based on my observation of images and video, that the stitch pattern and use of a new 3 layer fabric is quite a major departure from the current 2 layer sieve.

I meant multilayer as the style of fabric being similar. I honestly haven’t seen any close ups of the stitching

 

[ArunAlec]

I

Yes, it’s important to report issues and bring it to the attention of VWCV. But it’s down to how VW handle it internally from then on, and that’s the most frustrating part of this situation. We all by now know this is a product design issue. While the individual components are presumably fine, the combination of fabric, thread, needle and stretching has created a final product that is not fit for purpose.

The VW product design team are not stupid and will know this is a fundamental design problem. It’s all down to how it is managed internally and maybe the right people are still unaware. They are clearly committed to this style of fabric as we saw the Multivan California using a very similar one. So a solution will need to be found. As someone else mentioned, the cogs turn very slowly, which is very frustrating for owners.

So in my opinion, keep making noise with VWCV through dealers and directly. I haven’t been an owner long enough to know how long it took to provide a ‘solution’ for the T5 roof corrosion, but I think that would be a good benchmark for what to expect.

I wouldn’t use the T5 roof corrosion “fix” as a benchmark, you’d get very despondent! Sold my 2013 T5.1 in 2022 and it was still on the list for sorting.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Just been reading the Calibord forums; there's some mention of an "E" revision suggesting seam sealing tape is involved?! But I'm not sure Google Translate is necessarily helping here.

Screengrab of the translated version:



auf Deutsch;

Servus zusammen,

Ich bin bis jetzt hier nur stiller Mitleser in diesem Threads weil ich mir den neuen Bald im T5 nachrüsten wollte. Gut dass ich noch hier über das Thema Undichtigkeit gestolpert bin und das deswegen nochmal verschiebe.
Aber ich kann dafür eine Kleinigkeit beitragen, ich kann auf VW Zeichnungen zugreifen und habe mir Mal die Unterschiede zwischen der B und E Version angesehen.
Tatsächlich steht auf dem Änderungsindex der Version E als einzigstes dabei " Dichtungsband eingeführt".
Wenn man sich die ganzen Nähte auf der Zeichnung aber im Detail ansieht, dann sieht man, daß das dieses wirklich nur! an den seitlichen Fenstern an der unteren langen horizontalen Naht eingeführt wurde. Am großen Panorama Fenster vorne wurde genau gar nichts gemacht!

Dichtigkeits Unterschiede zwischen B und E vorne an heißen Fenster sind dann einfach reiner Zufall.

Btw. Zeltstoff ist tatsächlich mit 5000mm Wassersäule angegeben, aber natürlich ohne Nähte.
VG
Tom

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Just been reading the Calibord forums; there's some mention of an "E" revision suggesting seam sealing tape is involved?! But I'm not sure Google Translate is necessarily helping here.

Screengrab of the translated version:

View attachment 114948

auf Deutsch;

Servus zusammen,

Ich bin bis jetzt hier nur stiller Mitleser in diesem Threads weil ich mir den neuen Bald im T5 nachrüsten wollte. Gut dass ich noch hier über das Thema Undichtigkeit gestolpert bin und das deswegen nochmal verschiebe.
Aber ich kann dafür eine Kleinigkeit beitragen, ich kann auf VW Zeichnungen zugreifen und habe mir Mal die Unterschiede zwischen der B und E Version angesehen.
Tatsächlich steht auf dem Änderungsindex der Version E als einzigstes dabei " Dichtungsband eingeführt".
Wenn man sich die ganzen Nähte auf der Zeichnung aber im Detail ansieht, dann sieht man, daß das dieses wirklich nur! an den seitlichen Fenstern an der unteren langen horizontalen Naht eingeführt wurde. Am großen Panorama Fenster vorne wurde genau gar nichts gemacht!

Dichtigkeits Unterschiede zwischen B und E vorne an heißen Fenster sind dann einfach reiner Zufall.

Btw. Zeltstoff ist tatsächlich mit 5000mm Wassersäule angegeben, aber natürlich ohne Nähte.
VG
Tom

Sounds a bit like the roof corrosion solution, applying tape to all sides except the front. Sounds rather odd if correct, though some kind of sealing tape between the two fabric layers along all stitched areas may solve the issue.

 

[Kayleigh]

Sounds a bit like the roof corrosion solution, applying tape to all sides except the front. Sounds rather odd if correct, though some kind of sealing tape between the two fabric layers along all stitched areas may solve the issue.

Any seam sealant tape would be applied after the bellows is stitched together and not between the two bonded layers of fabric. It would be applied to the inside of the bellows, but the ability to use it successfully depends upon the fabric itself. For example, tape cannot be applied to silnylon fabrics as it won’t stick.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Sounds a bit like the roof corrosion solution, applying tape to all sides except the front.

Yep - very Blue Peter!

You would have thought that they would have taken this into account when designing the roof - it’s not rocket science. The fabric is not thick enough to blind stitch, so bonded tape is the only solution to prevent water ingress thru the stitch holes.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Any seam sealant tape would be applied after the bellows is stitched together and not between the two bonded layers of fabric. It would be applied to the inside of the bellows, but the ability to use it successfully depends upon the fabric itself. For example, tape cannot be applied to silnylon fabrics as it won’t stick.

There is some information about seam sealing here. It's clearly an issue in all industries. According to this the use of a wax coated thread or after stitch application is talked about.

How to Create Waterproof Seams

Check out these helpful tips for waterproofing your seams when sewing your own outdoor covers and tarps.

www.sailrite.com

I'm wondering if somehow the dual layered material is causing a capilliary action when say a single drop of water penetrates a seam stich. So the odd drip on a single layered material but chaos on the dual layered one.

I can't remember where I saw this, but someone had placed a sheet of plastic between the front mesh and the inner layer that had stopped the water ingress. Maybe the water is running along the top of the horizontal seam at the bottom of the panoramic window which could go some way to explaining why a topical seam sealer hasn't worked.

 

[Corradobrit]

I read that too although the poster says the sealing tape was applied along the horizontal seams. That won't fix the leaks at the curved pano zipper where water ingress started in my case.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Any seam sealant tape would be applied after the bellows is stitched together and not between the two bonded layers of fabric. It would be applied to the inside of the bellows, but the ability to use it successfully depends upon the fabric itself. For example, tape cannot be applied to silnylon fabrics as it won’t stick.

Should be able to apply silicon sealant directly to the seams, no need for tape. Just needs to cover the stitch holes.

 

[larrylamb]

Ah,the big roll of VW tape comes out again.

 

[Kayleigh]

Ah,the big roll of VW tape comes out again.

Should do the job…

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Just been reading the Calibord forums; there's some mention of an "E" revision suggesting seam sealing tape is involved?! But I'm not sure Google Translate is necessarily helping here.

Screengrab of the translated version:

View attachment 114948

auf Deutsch;

Servus zusammen,

Ich bin bis jetzt hier nur stiller Mitleser in diesem Threads weil ich mir den neuen Bald im T5 nachrüsten wollte. Gut dass ich noch hier über das Thema Undichtigkeit gestolpert bin und das deswegen nochmal verschiebe.
Aber ich kann dafür eine Kleinigkeit beitragen, ich kann auf VW Zeichnungen zugreifen und habe mir Mal die Unterschiede zwischen der B und E Version angesehen.
Tatsächlich steht auf dem Änderungsindex der Version E als einzigstes dabei " Dichtungsband eingeführt".
Wenn man sich die ganzen Nähte auf der Zeichnung aber im Detail ansieht, dann sieht man, daß das dieses wirklich nur! an den seitlichen Fenstern an der unteren langen horizontalen Naht eingeführt wurde. Am großen Panorama Fenster vorne wurde genau gar nichts gemacht!

Dichtigkeits Unterschiede zwischen B und E vorne an heißen Fenster sind dann einfach reiner Zufall.

Btw. Zeltstoff ist tatsächlich mit 5000mm Wassersäule angegeben, aber natürlich ohne Nähte.
VG
Tom

Okay I had a question answered on this over on Calibord

"B" and "E" refer to the bellows of the manual roof (B old, E new).
"No letter" and "C" are the counterparts of the electro-hydraulic pop-up roof.

So you will be getting the 'C' version; Same as me....

 

[larrylamb]

Should do the job…

View attachment 114952

Thought that was the tambour door tape

 

[RockinNRollin]

While I would ordinarily assume a "seam sealer tape" is the adhesive backing you get inside a waterproof coat or a tent, it's not impossible it's more like a rubberised layer between the two fabric layers which would hold tight around the thread and provide a waterproof barrier due to it's elasticity?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

While I would ordinarily assume a "seam sealer tape" is the adhesive backing you get inside a waterproof coat or a tent, it's not impossible it's more like a rubberised layer between the two fabric layers which would hold tight around the thread and provide a waterproof barrier due to it's elasticity?

This is what I had in mind too.