Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[OooOooTheMonkey]

So I've had a similar call and I questioned on the "C" type / part number side of it and I was told the replacement is carrying the same part number, but is a genuinely revised part. So it would seem hunting for part numbers and tags might be a pointless exercise.

Mine is due to be fitted sometime next week hopefully - I'll report back.

That sounds a bit strange to not revise the part number. Looking forward to hearing your feedback.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Not impossible - I'm not sure what would ordinarily prompt a change in part number, different application (e.g. manual vs electric roof, colour etc..). If it's the same "type" (even if there's been a tweak to design/manufacture) I'm not sure the part number would have to change.

 

[Corradobrit]

That sounds a bit strange to not revise the part number. Looking forward to hearing your feedback.

That makes no sense to me either.

 

[Corradobrit]

Not impossible - I'm not sure what would ordinarily prompt a change in part number, different application (e.g. manual vs electric roof, colour etc..). If it's the same "type" (even if there's been a tweak to design/manufacture) I'm not sure the part number would have to change.

I think you are underselling the mods needed to fix so many leaks through so many seams and zips. I think they are just worried about running out of letters.

 

[babble]

Perhaps the new bellows have just had factory sealed seams? Made by the same company, same fabric and design, so the same 'parts', but with a sealed seam, either stitched in (hopefully) or just squirted on after they have been made (like they do with tents). If it's the latter, then you have to reseal (which is easy) every few years...

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Not impossible - I'm not sure what would ordinarily prompt a change in part number, different application (e.g. manual vs electric roof, colour etc..). If it's the same "type" (even if there's been a tweak to design/manufacture) I'm not sure the part number would have to change.

Not impossible but very odd. VAG usually revise part numbers for very minor differences in parts. The letter on the end usually goes up one for each revision. At least that was always the case on all the VW Golfs I’ve had.

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

Have had a call from VWCV today to advise that there is a new set of replacement bellows available. My van is already booked in for 10th Oct for a water test at the local dealer, but they now won’t be authorised to provide the temporary bellows cover because the hope is that they may have the new version of the bellows in stock by then or if not then shortly after.

If only they had said a couple of weeks ago that they were hopeful of delivering a replacement part in this time frame ! Its still yet to be seen and tested by us owners in the wild but lets hope they have thoroughly tested it before roll out this time around ……….

Do they think we don't talk about them (VWCV) on the forum.

My call today said nothing about there being a new set of bellows available. Sounds a bit suspicious, bring it in and we will test it again. Do they think the VW dealer was a bit heavy handed with the water test.

 

[andyinluton]

Not impossible but very odd. VAG usually revise part numbers for very minor differences in parts. The letter on the end usually goes up one for each revision. At least that was always the case on all the VW Golfs I’ve had.

If its a quality control issue - substandard thread, wrong tension on the sewing machine or even a missing coat of seam sealer etc, it wouldn't get a new part number as the design hasn't changed.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

If its a quality control issue - substandard thread, wrong tension on the sewing machine or even a missing coat of seam sealer etc, it wouldn't get a new part number as the design hasn't changed.

Yes that makes sense. This may be their conclusion then. Very interested and hoping the new bellows part solves the problem.

 

[RockinNRollin]

In any case, this seems to be the most encouraging communication on the matter since the debacle started. My optimismometer has moved up a few notches.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Just emailed the Exec office

 

[Joncali2023!!]

It’s going to be a long road for some of you guys waiting on watertight bellows , unfortunately.
Hoping you all don’t venture out in the winter…

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

It’s going to be a long road for some of you guys waiting on watertight bellows , unfortunately.
Hoping you all don’t venture out in the winter…

Based on what evidence? Apparently there’s a new version of the bellows. VW may have fixed the problem.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

Based on what evidence? Apparently there’s a new version of the bellows. VW may have fixed the problem.

Good luck.
I’ve heard the newest bellows leak, even before being released and during product testing.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Good luck.
I’ve heard the newest bellows leak, even before being released and during product testing.

That’s interesting. Where did you hear this?

 

[Jabberwocky]

I can confirm that a new version of the bellows (for the Ocean) has been produced and has a new part number (includes the letter "C"). I have had my Cali fitted with the new version and it still leaks in an unacceptable way. I am now in direct discussions with VW Customer Care as to what options are available to me. The VWCC telephone number is 0800 783 4909. Call them and log a complaint if you have not already done so..

 

[Julesverne2000]

I can confirm that a new version of the bellows (for the Ocean) has been produced and has a new part number (includes the letter "C"). I have had my Cali fitted with the new version and it still leaks in an unacceptable way. I am now in direct discussions with VW Customer Care as to what options are available to me. The VWCC telephone number is 0800 783 4909. Call them and log a complaint if you have not already done so..

Wasn’t there was some chat above about new bellows (potentially not the C) as well as a version in Germany with taped seams? Although none of it is very clear nor convincing.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Wasn’t there was some chat above about new bellows (potentially not the C) as well as a version in Germany with taped seams? Although none of it is very clear nor convincing.

Its complicated if only because I specifically only make comment about the bellows for the Ocean. Sometimes its difficult to decipher fact and hearsay but only yesterday I spoke to VWCC and they confirmed to me that the information I have and posted above is correct. As for other versions, Fabsil sprays and taped seams. I wait to have these matters raised in my discussions which should be next week sometime.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Wasn’t there was some chat above about new bellows (potentially not the C) as well as a version in Germany with taped seams? Although none of it is very clear nor convincing.

The manual roof has original version 'B' and variant 'E'.

The Ocean original version didn't have a letter and the newer variant is 'C'.

I think the 'C' and 'E' versions were in production late June and into July. That's the date on the little white QC tag.

I believe also that the 'C' and 'E' versions had some kind of seam sealer tape on them.

Where this get's interesting is VWCV (UK) Customer care were saying last week "There's a completely new version available". Now, I'm unsure if VWCV (UK) are in catch-up mode and think the 'C' version is watertight, new and our saviour or whether there's actually a newer version of 'C' which maybe has some different seam sealers or additional QC etc but has not had the version revised.

My dealer told me good news after pulling the bellows apart, "There's a new product code out there with a 'C' in it". Now they clearly weren't aware that 'C' has been around since early July or they would have known this. I suspect also I'm their first bellows replacement.

The only other bit of news I can glean is that these products have been unavailable to order for a number of weeks - I'm guessing but I think from circa mid-August they went un-available. So far as I can tell they have only just got back into stock for delivery in October.

Maybe that's good news in they've been working on a watertight version for a month or more but it then begs the question, what is the pedigree of the bellows installed during August and September??

 

[RockinNRollin]

I can confirm that a new version of the bellows (for the Ocean) has been produced and has a new part number (includes the letter "C"). I have had my Cali fitted with the new version and it still leaks in an unacceptable way. I am now in direct discussions with VW Customer Care as to what options are available to me. The VWCC telephone number is 0800 783 4909. Call them and log a complaint if you have not already done so..

The guy I spoke to from VWCV said there has been none of these newest bellows in the UK yet; the first stock is due to arrive next week. So whatever you’ve had fitted, based on what I’ve been told, is not this latest bellows (which incidentally is the first time I’m aware VW have actually acknowledged the leaking issue and the fact this revised part is to address the leak)

 

[Jabberwocky]

I have had my suspicions but no evidence and so was not stirring that pot.
What I will ask here is can anyone tell me what the vehicle rejection process looks like? There are two important dates. Up to 30 days and up to 6 months. My Cali is 3 months old and I have been told that a full refund is not possible. You have to pay for use. i.e. Time and miles.
Any real information on this one?

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

I have had my suspicions but no evidence and so was not stirring that pot.
What I will ask here is can anyone tell me what the vehicle rejection process looks like? There are two important dates. Up to 30 days and up to 6 months. My Cali is 3 months old and I have been told that a full refund is not possible. You have to pay for use. i.e. Time and miles.
Any real information on this one?

Yeah. Within 30 days a faulty vehicle can be rejected with a full refund.

Beyond that and less than 6 months the dealer has 1 opportunity to fix. If they don't you can reject.

In that period there's a negotiation regards usage which can be problematical. The basis of 45p per mile might be considered reasonable but if the dealer wants you to pay 95p per mile and you want to pay 10p per mile then that would need a court to decide...

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I have had my suspicions but no evidence and so was not stirring that pot.
What I will ask here is can anyone tell me what the vehicle rejection process looks like? There are two important dates. Up to 30 days and up to 6 months. My Cali is 3 months old and I have been told that a full refund is not possible. You have to pay for use. i.e. Time and miles.
Any real information on this one?

It’s up to the dealer if they want a deduction due to usage and to ask for a mileage charge from you. I’ve read previously somewhere that 20p/mile is reasonable, and that seems quite fair to me. 45p/mile seems unreasonable. If your experience has been particularly bad I think you could argue that no charge should be paid. It very much depends on the dealer how this is handled and how strongly you feel about it given your experience. From the dealer’s perspective they have to also consider any review you may leave them so I think it’s in their interests to treat you well if you’ve had a bad experience, though some dealers may not see it this way. You need to write a letter to the dealer saying that you’re exercising your right to reject the vehicle under the consumer rights act and state the reasons why. You must then not use it again and they have to collect it from you. That’s the legal process, though for us with Breeze it was less formal than this and we agreed by phone it would be going back, followed by prompt collection by them. Always a good idea to follow up any phone call with an email though stating what was agreed so you still have a record in writing.

 

[RockinNRollin]

I would say though that the fact VW are now seemingly officially recognising the issue and are suggesting they have a formal fix will probably work against rejection options as it’s no longer (on face value at least) a case of no fix in sight. Of course if the fix remains ineffective that’s a different matter!

From my perspective I ordered a Cali because it’s the best vehicle for our circumstances. There have been some issues but if they can be resolved then I’ll still have the best vehicle for my circumstances. If I got my money back (even all of it) then barring a MY22 Ocean I can’t think what else I’d go for. I’d much rather just get mine sorted and keep it.

 

[ivan & jill]

I have also bailed (excuse the pun) and bought a Westfalia Club Joker. I didn't even have to threaten Consumer Protection rights, Breeze simply agreed to buy my Ocean back at the price I paid 4 months ago. I had the Ocean booked in locally for a bellows replacement but had no confidence that the current C variant would not leak. We had been looking at the Club Joker for a while and thought that if we ever wanted more on-board facilities such as a bathroom and hot water and be prepared to have a high top as our only vehicle, then the Joker would be the one to suit us. This leak problem brought our decision forward a year or two. Hope we like the Westfalia as much or more than the Cali and going away tomorrow for 4 nights to find out.