Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[RockinNRollin]

but don't necessarily want the bulk of an insulated wrap...

I wouldn't get too hung up on this; we store ours on the rear "bed shelf" in the boot when travelling about, so it's out of the way, then if we're not using it on a campsite we just push it into the front footwells where there's plenty of space even if both seats are spun around. The bulk is never an issue for us (and that's a family of 3). I guess if you habitually pile the upper portion of the boot to the roof then it might be . . .

 

[RockinNRollin]

This thread is getting very winding, so I've created a new poll to capture just the bellows installed since October 2023 as any prior are not confirmed to be the latest ones (I believe the earliest stock arrived in the UK 03/10/23). Can those with either the latest latest bellows installed, or being installed, please contribute to this poll? Thanks

Leaking Bellows: Installed since October 2023 Only

OK, so there is a lot of info floating around on this already, this is an attempt to glean the latest information to understand the picture. Please only add to the poll if you've had a new bellows fitted to your California since October 2023 as these are supposed to be the "new ones". Any prior...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[Corradobrit]

This thread is getting very winding, so I've created a new poll to capture just the bellows installed since October 2023 as any prior are not confirmed to be the latest ones (I believe the earliest stock arrived in the UK 03/10/23). Can those with either the latest latest bellows installed, or being installed, please contribute to this poll? Thanks

Leaking Bellows: Installed since October 2023 Only

OK, so there is a lot of info floating around on this already, this is an attempt to glean the latest information to understand the picture. Please only add to the poll if you've had a new bellows fitted to your California since October 2023 as these are supposed to be the "new ones". Any prior...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

Good idea. I will monitor the Calibord feedback too.

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

It's all gone quiet, has everybody gone to the Caravan and Motorhome show to choose their new hard top camper. Did see some bellows that looked like a blow up mattress / big bubble wrap material on a big motorhome.

It is a bit sad that with the technology available today, VW can't come up with a waterproof option. My 15 year old Isabella caravan awning has had some horrendous weather thrown at it with no leaking.

 

[andyinluton]

It is a bit sad that with the technology available today, VW can't come up with a waterproof option.

They have, but for some unknown reason they stopped fitting them for MY2023 onwards.....

 

[babble]

it's all gone quiet while we wait to hear what happens with bellows version 2.2......

It is amazing that this new design made it through product testing to be fitted to thousands of Californias though really, isn't it? Even more amazing is that when people start bringing them in leaking, that VW have just been replacing them with the same model again. WTF. It is so obviously a massive material and design issue. I watched mine getting wet for the first time last week, and the water darkened the fabric, (like a wet suit) and soaked in like a sponge, (as it does on a wet suit) and then, again like a sponge, the water just started coming through in various places on the inside. it's not rocket science, it's materials science. (probably year 1, term 1).

My concern now, is that VW will basically double down on the design, but sealing a few very leaky parts and treating the outside with water replant and think that is job done. of course you will then need to retreat your fabric every year or so (and it probably won't work anyway.)

 

[RockinNRollin]

They have, but for some unknown reason they stopped fitting them for MY2023 onwards.....

I wonder if this is connected with Russia / Ukraine - a lot of VAG supply chains went into Russia. The timing could be about right given probable stock levels / time taken for embargos on using any Russian-linked supply chain to be put in place? If that's the case, it would mean a totally new company had been tasked with designing and building the latest bellows . . . and are apparently not very good at it (and/or don't have the accrued experience of the previous manufacturer).

Only a thought but it might explain a step change in both design and performance.

 

[babble]

i think they genuinely thought that this was a much better design, and in some ways it really is. warmer, softer, keeps the light out - just like a wooly jumper......oh wait! doh!

 

[Jimmylondon07]

In the other thread 3 people voted that they’d had the new, new bellows fitted and they still leak but not a word in this thread. Are VW paying you for your silence?

 

[ArunAlec]

it's all gone quiet while we wait to hear what happens with bellows version 2.2......

It is amazing that this new design made it through product testing to be fitted to thousands of Californias though really, isn't it? Even more amazing is that when people start bringing them in leaking, that VW have just been replacing them with the same model again. WTF. It is so obviously a massive material and design issue. I watched mine getting wet for the first time last week, and the water darkened the fabric, (like a wet suit) and soaked in like a sponge, (as it does on a wet suit) and then, again like a sponge, the water just started coming through in various places on the inside. it's not rocket science, it's materials science. (probably year 1, term 1).

My concern now, is that VW will basically double down on the design, but sealing a few very leaky parts and treating the outside with water replant and think that is job done. of course you will then need to retreat your fabric every year or so (and it probably won't work anyway.)

Given VW’s record on ‘design issues’ I wouldn‘t want to bet on any early solution ….. roof corrosion and leaking side window drains as examples.

 

[Corradobrit]

Given VW’s record on ‘design issues’ I wouldn‘t want to bet on any early solution ….. roof corrosion and leaking side window drains as examples.

But these were less obvious or took many years to develop, and probably not with the same rate of occurrence. The leaking poptop is more fundamental and is demonstrable the first time out in a decent rain shower. I wager all will, or have, suffered from this defect to a lesser or greater extent. The design defect is just too egregious.

 

[RockinNRollin]

In the other thread 3 people voted that they’d had the new, new bellows fitted and they still leak but not a word in this thread. Are VW paying you for your silence?

More likely there's just nothing to say? If it leaks it leaks . . .

 

[ArunAlec]

But these were less obvious or took many years to develop, and probably not with the same rate of occurrence. The leaking poptop is more fundamental and is demonstrable the first time out in a decent rain shower. I wager all will, or have, suffered from this defect to a lesser or greater extent. The design defect is just too egregious.

Certainly agree with you regarding the roof corrosion but the leaking window drain issue has been around since the first T5 and as far as I’m aware has not been sorted … @rod_vw being a long time sufferer!
The canvas leak is too obvious for owners to miss where as the window leak can be hidden.

 

[Corradobrit]

Certainly agree with you regarding the roof corrosion but the leaking window drain issue has been around since the first T5 and as far as I’m aware has not been sorted … @rod_vw being a long time sufferer!
The canvas leak is too obvious for owners to miss where as the window leak can be hidden.

The main difference I see is that while the leaking side window might be an inconvenience it doesn't really impact the normal use of the vehicle as a campervan. Leaking poptops certainly do. VW advertise it as a family vehicle for 4. The current problem prevents it from being used for that intended purpose in all but dry conditions.

Anyone got any lawyer buddies willing to draft a strongly worded letter to VW. I would be happy to contribute towards some sort of class action suit, as it seems that is the way most of these companies prefer to go.......unfortunately.

 

[RockinNRollin]

The main difference I see is that while the leaking side window might be an inconvenience it doesn't really impact the normal use of the vehicle as a campervan. Leaking poptops certainly do. VW advertise it as a family vehicle for 4. The current problem prevents it from being used for that intended purpose in all but dry conditions.

Anyone got any lawyer buddies willing to draft a strongly worded letter to VW. I would be happy to contribute towards some sort of class action suit, as it seems that is the way most of these companies prefer to go.......unfortunately.

In the UK at least, I think the Motor Ombudsman is probably a better route forward? They (I think) can supply letter templates for consumers. I don't think a collective is actually helping this though, it's useful for consumers to understand the position, but if anything I think a single point of communication representing the many is probably less effective to an organisation like VW than all the consumers independently corresponding.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

More likely there's just nothing to say? If it leaks it leaks . . .

Well most people have had plenty to say up until now, just seems strange that it's suddenly gone quiet is all (I don't believe VW are paying people for the record ).

 

[Corradobrit]

In the UK at least, I think the Motor Ombudsman is probably a better route forward? They (I think) can supply letter templates for consumers. I don't think a collective is actually helping this though, it's useful for consumers to understand the position, but if anything I think a single point of communication representing the many is probably less effective to an organisation like VW than all the consumers independently corresponding.

Yes, UK, EU and US legal systems work differently. I'm more familiar with the US system where Class Action suits for situations like this are de rigueur

 

[rswestling]

Yes, UK, EU and US legal systems work differently. I'm more familiar with the US system where Class Action suits for situations like this are de rigueur

And that's why we choose to live in the UK, where they are not.

I picked up our new Ocean yesterday. It's lovely, and I had a terrific drive in it on the way home. I've got my topper ready to go when we take it camping, and until then I'll keep it down and dry.

 

[bullibuskombi]

It's all gone quiet, has everybody gone to the Caravan and Motorhome show to choose their new hard top camper. Did see some bellows that looked like a blow up mattress / big bubble wrap material on a big motorhome.

It is a bit sad that with the technology available today, VW can't come up with a waterproof option. My 15 year old Isabella caravan awning has had some horrendous weather thrown at it with no leaking.

My awning and storage tent were totally dry in rain this year. Unfortunately my 22 ocean wasn't.

 

[Sheffield10]

After a flurry of calls and conversations from VWUK EO and my dealer last week and at the start of this week, there is no new news any more. There are now several dealer reports that the new new bellows leak so until the factory come up with something else VWUK and the dealers have got nothing to tell us. My dealer told me they have 9 customers with leaking bellows but are now not rushing to book them in for replacements because the new new bellows have not resolved the problem. I've been promised an update next week.

 

[Corradobrit]

And that's why we choose to live in the UK, where they are not.

I picked up our new Ocean yesterday. It's lovely, and I had a terrific drive in it on the way home. I've got my topper ready to go when we take it camping, and until then I'll keep it down and dry.

While I agree in principle, I think the consumer needs more teeth than is offered by the ombudsman. Companies like Apple only address inherent problems in their designs when ordered to do so.

 

[CampervanFlattie]

just emailed my photos and name to add to the list, thanks

Just had this back regarding my email to VW on 29th September

Doesn't fill me with confidence!

"We tried to deliver your message multiple times over a few days; however, the person's destination email provider has not been reachable or has not accepted this message. We have stopped trying to deliver this message. Please check with the person you are trying to send to that they can still receive emails at this address.

Your message was not delivered within 0 days and 0 hours.
Host vwcv.co.uk is not responding.

The following recipients did not receive this message:

<executive.office@vwcv.co.uk>
Reporting-MTA: dns; re-prd-fep-040.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net
Arrival-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:28:49 +0100
Received-From-MTA: dns; re-prd-rgout-003.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net (10.2.54.6)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; <executive.office@vwcv.co.uk>
Action: failed
Status: 5.2.0
Remote-MTA: dns; vwcv.co.uk
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 451 Now greylisted - please try again in five minutes"

 

[bullibuskombi]

After a flurry of calls and conversations from VWUK EO and my dealer last week and at the start of this week, there is no new news any more. There are now several dealer reports that the new new bellows leak so until the factory come up with something else VWUK and the dealers have got nothing to tell us. My dealer told me they have 9 customers with leaking bellows but are now not rushing to book them in for replacements because the new new bellows have not resolved the problem. I've been promised an update next week.

After a flurry of calls and conversations from VWUK EO and my dealer last week and at the start of this week, there is no new news any more. There are now several dealer reports that the new new bellows leak so until the factory come up with something else VWUK and the dealers have got nothing to tell us. My dealer told me they have 9 customers with leaking bellows but are now not rushing to book them in for replacements because the new new bellows have not resolved the problem. I've been promised an update next week.

I have mine listed with VWUK EO and an incident number. They fail to call back when I ring them to discuss despite promising to do so several times.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Just had this back regarding my email to VW on 29th September

Doesn't fill me with confidence!

"We tried to deliver your message multiple times over a few days; however, the person's destination email provider has not been reachable or has not accepted this message. We have stopped trying to deliver this message. Please check with the person you are trying to send to that they can still receive emails at this address.

Your message was not delivered within 0 days and 0 hours.
Host vwcv.co.uk is not responding.

The following recipients did not receive this message:

<executive.office@vwcv.co.uk>
Reporting-MTA: dns; re-prd-fep-040.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net
Arrival-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:28:49 +0100
Received-From-MTA: dns; re-prd-rgout-003.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net (10.2.54.6)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; <executive.office@vwcv.co.uk>
Action: failed
Status: 5.2.0
Remote-MTA: dns; vwcv.co.uk
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 451 Now greylisted - please try again in five minutes"

Excessive attachments? I know plenty of mailboxes with incoming attachment size limits of as little as 5mb.

 

[CampervanFlattie]

possibly, I did and some photos but I had downsized them. I will have another go