Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I suspect these bellows are a precursor to the new California bellows. VW have done that with new engine designs in the past too, presumably in case there’s any issues they don’t ruin the reputation of a new model…?

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

My replacement bellows were fitted week ending 13th October. Mine were the original part number without the "C" and were replaced by my dealer with the latest "C" version early the week ending 13th October. The only replacement I can gather so far at this dealership and it's been tested multiple times. I know of at least 4 occasions but maybe more as my van has been subjected to test - water ingress - retest - water ingress. Rinse repeat...

Others here, having worked out they were waiting for the test results of my van have been told it's failed with serious water ingress.

We were scheduled to pick it up last week, and sit it out waiting for a VW fix, but had to cancel the collection due to a Drs appointment.

We reflected on the whole situation and decided the ownership of this vehicle has just become too stressful / emotional and is affecting our well-being after investing north of £70k on our retirement present.

Also, we just don't know what permanent damage may have resulted from all of this water ingress and of course the failed hydraulics which at least temporarily warped the roof. The water when ingressing doesn't necessarily just drip onto the seats but the control panel is near by; the soft furnishings of the roof etc; other electronics.

I honestly don't know how VW could tell the dealer to leave it out overnight in the rain after it had failed all the dealer water tests. How can "leaving it out" be a Quality Control test. Surely VW can produce a standardises test process - unless they'd rather not know the results.

I sent a Rejection letter by email to the dealer last Tuesday, by recorded delivery on Wednesday and copies to VW. One week on I have finally had an acknowledgment of the Rejection letter from the dealer and now the Sales manager needs to wait until later in the week to discuss with his manager - who also received a hard copy last week.

How long have other peoples Rejections taken?

 

[Corradobrit]

My replacement bellows were fitted week ending 13th October. Mine were the original part number without the "C" and were replaced by my dealer with the latest "C" version early the week ending 13th October. The only replacement I can gather so far at this dealership and it's been tested multiple times. I know of at least 4 occasions but maybe more as my van has been subjected to test - water ingress - retest - water ingress. Rinse repeat...

Others here, having worked out they were waiting for the test results of my van have been told it's failed with serious water ingress.

We were scheduled to pick it up last week, and sit it out waiting for a VW fix, but had to cancel the collection due to a Drs appointment.

We reflected on the whole situation and decided the ownership of this vehicle has just become too stressful / emotional and is affecting our well-being after investing north of £70k on our retirement present.

Also, we just don't know what permanent damage may have resulted from all of this water ingress and of course the failed hydraulics which at least temporarily warped the roof. The water when ingressing doesn't necessarily just drip onto the seats but the control panel is near by; the soft furnishings of the roof etc; other electronics.

I honestly don't know how VW could tell the dealer to leave it out overnight in the rain after it had failed all the dealer water tests. How can "leaving it out" be a Quality Control test. Surely VW can produce a standardises test process - unless they'd rather not know the results.

I sent a Rejection letter by email to the dealer last Tuesday, by recorded delivery on Wednesday and copies to VW. One week on I have finally had an acknowledgment of the Rejection letter from the dealer and now the Sales manager needs to wait until later in the week to discuss with his manager - who also received a hard copy last week.

How long have other peoples Rejections taken?

View attachment 115924

How the mighty have fallen. Scuse the pun. I think I would have made exactly the same decision had I been in your shoes.

 

[Viktorgeorge]

On the Calibord.de forum, which Google translates automatically, there are now reports of people who have received seam-sealed bellows and who say they don’t leak....

If the new two layered fabric is not changed, it will always absorb/hold water and even if taped seams stop water ingress initially, I wonder how long they will stay watertight?

Stating the obvious, perhaps, the point about the older single layer old fabric is that it never 'sucked up' water in the first place which is why they were dependible over very many years (apparently).

 

[stationmaster]

My replacement bellows were fitted week ending 13th October. Mine were the original part number without the "C" and were replaced by my dealer with the latest "C" version early the week ending 13th October. The only replacement I can gather so far at this dealership and it's been tested multiple times. I know of at least 4 occasions but maybe more as my van has been subjected to test - water ingress - retest - water ingress. Rinse repeat...

Others here, having worked out they were waiting for the test results of my van have been told it's failed with serious water ingress.

We were scheduled to pick it up last week, and sit it out waiting for a VW fix, but had to cancel the collection due to a Drs appointment.

We reflected on the whole situation and decided the ownership of this vehicle has just become too stressful / emotional and is affecting our well-being after investing north of £70k on our retirement present.

Also, we just don't know what permanent damage may have resulted from all of this water ingress and of course the failed hydraulics which at least temporarily warped the roof. The water when ingressing doesn't necessarily just drip onto the seats but the control panel is near by; the soft furnishings of the roof etc; other electronics.

I honestly don't know how VW could tell the dealer to leave it out overnight in the rain after it had failed all the dealer water tests. How can "leaving it out" be a Quality Control test. Surely VW can produce a standardises test process - unless they'd rather not know the results.

I sent a Rejection letter by email to the dealer last Tuesday, by recorded delivery on Wednesday and copies to VW. One week on I have finally had an acknowledgment of the Rejection letter from the dealer and now the Sales manager needs to wait until later in the week to discuss with his manager - who also received a hard copy last week.

How long have other peoples Rejections taken?

View attachment 115924

Sorry this has been such a difficult and worrying time for you.
Have you rejected within the 30days of delivery/collection?

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Sorry this has been such a difficult and worrying time for you.
Have you rejected within the 30days of delivery/collection?

No. It's after a failed fix attempt on the leaking bellows. VW EO at the time were quite clear that Consumer law allowed me to reject.

 

[stationmaster]

No. It's after a failed fix attempt on the leaking bellows. VW EO at the time were quite clear that Consumer law allowed me to reject.

 

[stationmaster]

Just a matter of working out the details/practicalities of the rejection with the dealership.
Hope it all goes smoothly for you.

 

[Kayleigh]

My replacement bellows were fitted week ending 13th October. Mine were the original part number without the "C" and were replaced by my dealer with the latest "C" version early the week ending 13th October. The only replacement I can gather so far at this dealership and it's been tested multiple times. I know of at least 4 occasions but maybe more as my van has been subjected to test - water ingress - retest - water ingress. Rinse repeat...

Others here, having worked out they were waiting for the test results of my van have been told it's failed with serious water ingress.

We were scheduled to pick it up last week, and sit it out waiting for a VW fix, but had to cancel the collection due to a Drs appointment.

We reflected on the whole situation and decided the ownership of this vehicle has just become too stressful / emotional and is affecting our well-being after investing north of £70k on our retirement present.

Also, we just don't know what permanent damage may have resulted from all of this water ingress and of course the failed hydraulics which at least temporarily warped the roof. The water when ingressing doesn't necessarily just drip onto the seats but the control panel is near by; the soft furnishings of the roof etc; other electronics.

I honestly don't know how VW could tell the dealer to leave it out overnight in the rain after it had failed all the dealer water tests. How can "leaving it out" be a Quality Control test. Surely VW can produce a standardises test process - unless they'd rather not know the results.

I sent a Rejection letter by email to the dealer last Tuesday, by recorded delivery on Wednesday and copies to VW. One week on I have finally had an acknowledgment of the Rejection letter from the dealer and now the Sales manager needs to wait until later in the week to discuss with his manager - who also received a hard copy last week.

How long have other peoples Rejections taken?

View attachment 115924

Hi @CaliforniaCylus, I think you have made the best decision in your position. I very much doubt that the roof would be temporarily warped and given the replacement bellows failed you are within your rights to reject.

In terms of timing for my rejection, I sent a letter by email on a Monday and had a phone call on the Tuesday. They demanded the California be returned by midday on the Wednesday otherwise they would not honour the full refund. I tried to explain that the tracker was due to be swapped to my old van the following Monday, but they would not listen. I returned the van on the Wednesday and returned to the dealer the following Monday for the tracker swap. The Cali was already up for sale and I had not received my refund yet, which was paid the next day.

When it came to the refund, initially they would not pay back the extended warranty. I called VW customer service who in turn called the dealer, and then agreed to include the extended warranty in the refund. They also deducted the full amount for the road tax, for which I received a partial refund directly from DVLA. I’m not sure if that’s the correct procedure, so if someone could advise it may help others.

After adding everything up I received a full refund minus two months road tax, and it looks like they shortchanged me by £50 as well. It would be good to know if others received a full road tax refund.

In the end I was just glad to hand it back to remove the anxiety, but I am of course still out of pocket for the accessories I purchased as well. I should make it clear that it was the faulty roof paint that pushed me to finally reject. I was on the fence until that point. I discovered the roof issue on day 29!

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Hi @CaliforniaCylus, I think you have made the best decision in your position. I very much doubt that the roof would be temporarily warped and given the replacement bellows failed you are within your rights to reject.

In terms of timing for my rejection, I sent a letter by email on a Monday and had a phone call on the Tuesday. They demanded the California be returned by midday on the Wednesday otherwise they would not honour the full refund. I tried to explain that the tracker was due to be swapped to my old van the following Monday, but they would not listen. I returned the van on the Wednesday and returned to the dealer the following Monday for the tracker swap. The Cali was already up for sale and I had not received my refund yet, which was paid the next day.

When it came to the refund, initially they would not pay back the extended warranty. I called VW customer service who in turn called the dealer, and then agreed to include the extended warranty in the refund. They also deducted the full amount for the road tax, for which I received a partial refund directly from DVLA. I’m not sure if that’s the correct procedure, so if someone could advise it may help others.

After adding everything up I received a full refund minus two months road tax, and it looks like they shortchanged me by £50 as well. It would be good to know if others received a full road tax refund.

In the end I was just glad to hand it back to remove the anxiety, but I am of course still out of pocket for the accessories I purchased as well. I should make it clear that it was the faulty roof paint that pushed me to finally reject. I was on the fence until that point. I discovered the roof issue on day 29!

Pretty sure the law says they must collect it from you, so they’re wrong by demanding you return it to them.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

I've spoken to EV about this issue this morning, so I won't mention anyone by name. However my Cali was due for build last week but I've been told this has been pushed back to end of November for whatever reason I don't know. The person I spoke to was clearly aware of this issue, and I was told that of the 8 or 9 they handed over last week or so all had a 'VW checked' sticker on the side of the bellows which they told me they'd not seen before. They also said of the handovers they've done not one has raised an issue which they said was surpising after the bad weather last week. They said "this is purely conjecture on my part and not officially from VW or the dealer but the inference of the stickers combined with the lack of anyone raising the issue they felt VW was aware and had sorted the issue" I've tried to quote the conversation pretty much verbatim, but they went on to tell me that if the issue wasn't sorted I could claim on the warranty and get a courtesy car etc....

Whether what I was told was made up, embellished or completely true I've no idea, but I thought I'd relay my conversation. I didn't tell the dealer on the phone but if mine leak, I'm not messing around I'll reject immediately and they can collect from Shropshire as they're legally obliged to collect it under the 30 day rule. Hopefully that won't be the case as I'm so looking forward to getting it....

 

[Barry Chuckle]

*To clarify of the last 8-9 handovers they've done they've had no one contact them with this issue

 

[Corradobrit]

I've spoken to EV about this issue this morning, so I won't mention anyone by name. However my Cali was due for build last week but I've been told this has been pushed back to end of November for whatever reason I don't know. The person I spoke to was clearly aware of this issue, and I was told that of the 8 or 9 they handed over last week or so all had a 'VW checked' sticker on the side of the bellows which they told me they'd not seen before. They also said of the handovers they've done not one has raised an issue which they said was surpising after the bad weather last week. They said "this is purely conjecture on my part and not officially from VW or the dealer but the inference of the stickers combined with the lack of anyone raising the issue they felt VW was aware and had sorted the issue" I've tried to quote the conversation pretty much verbatim, but they went on to tell me that if the issue wasn't sorted I could claim on the warranty and get a courtesy car etc....

Whether what I was told was made up, embellished or completely true I've no idea, but I thought I'd relay my conversation. I didn't tell the dealer on the phone but if mine leak, I'm not messing around I'll reject immediately and they can collect from Shropshire as they're legally obliged to collect it under the 30 day rule. Hopefully that won't be the case as I'm so looking forward to getting it....

Hopefully not ANOTHER false dawn.

 

[Corradobrit]

FIFY
"In stock and ready for your next AQUATIC adventure!"

 

[WelshGas]

Hi @CaliforniaCylus, I think you have made the best decision in your position. I very much doubt that the roof would be temporarily warped and given the replacement bellows failed you are within your rights to reject.

In terms of timing for my rejection, I sent a letter by email on a Monday and had a phone call on the Tuesday. They demanded the California be returned by midday on the Wednesday otherwise they would not honour the full refund. I tried to explain that the tracker was due to be swapped to my old van the following Monday, but they would not listen. I returned the van on the Wednesday and returned to the dealer the following Monday for the tracker swap. The Cali was already up for sale and I had not received my refund yet, which was paid the next day.

When it came to the refund, initially they would not pay back the extended warranty. I called VW customer service who in turn called the dealer, and then agreed to include the extended warranty in the refund. They also deducted the full amount for the road tax, for which I received a partial refund directly from DVLA. I’m not sure if that’s the correct procedure, so if someone could advise it may help others.

After adding everything up I received a full refund minus two months road tax, and it looks like they shortchanged me by £50 as well. It would be good to know if others received a full road tax refund.

In the end I was just glad to hand it back to remove the anxiety, but I am of course still out of pocket for the accessories I purchased as well. I should make it clear that it was the faulty roof paint that pushed me to finally reject. I was on the fence until that point. I discovered the roof issue on day 29!

It’s the Vehicle Owner, as stated on the V5c document , that pays the Road Tax and it is the same registered Owner that receives the Refund when vehicle ownership changes. Refunds are calculated as 12 months - whole or partial months. So unless ownership changed within the 1st month then you would pay 2 months Road Tax and receive 10 months refund.

 

[Sheffield10]

I've spoken to EV about this issue this morning, so I won't mention anyone by name. However my Cali was due for build last week but I've been told this has been pushed back to end of November for whatever reason I don't know. The person I spoke to was clearly aware of this issue, and I was told that of the 8 or 9 they handed over last week or so all had a 'VW checked' sticker on the side of the bellows which they told me they'd not seen before. They also said of the handovers they've done not one has raised an issue which they said was surpising after the bad weather last week. They said "this is purely conjecture on my part and not officially from VW or the dealer but the inference of the stickers combined with the lack of anyone raising the issue they felt VW was aware and had sorted the issue" I've tried to quote the conversation pretty much verbatim, but they went on to tell me that if the issue wasn't sorted I could claim on the warranty and get a courtesy car etc....

Whether what I was told was made up, embellished or completely true I've no idea, but I thought I'd relay my conversation. I didn't tell the dealer on the phone but if mine leak, I'm not messing around I'll reject immediately and they can collect from Shropshire as they're legally obliged to collect it under the 30 day rule. Hopefully that won't be the case as I'm so looking forward to getting it....

I was told the same re 'Checked' stickers in mid September, and collected my van at the end of September. It has the C variant bellows, and yes, it leaks in all variants of water.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

I was told the same re 'Checked' stickers in mid September, and collected my van at the end of September. It has the C variant bellows, and yes, it leaks in all variants of water.

Perhaps these are the special VW F variant stickers where it takes you over 30 days to realise (so VW hope!)

Joking aside I do take what car sales people say with a very large pinch of salt My heart goes out to people like @CaliforniaCylus who's retirement dream is turning out to be anything but, hopefully you'll be able to end up with an even better camper, maybe non-VW though...

 

[Pinocchio_888]

Has anyone collected a new van in the last 2 weeks or so to see if there have been any updates from factory rather than fixes (that don’t work). Mine is due end of Nov and reading this post, I am now starting to regret it.

 

[Kayleigh]

Has anyone collected a new van in the last 2 weeks or so to see if there have been any updates from factory rather than fixes (that don’t work). Mine is due end of Nov and reading this post, I am now starting to regret it.

If due in one month, when is your build week? Don’t worry about regretting anything as you have 30 days to reject if the worst comes to the worst. That gives you up to the end of December for a final bellows solution. I know the situation is not ideal, but take it one step at a time!

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Hopefully the leaking bellows issue is now sorted (perhaps wishful thinking)
I'm a member of Which? and they have a template for anyone wanting to reject a vehicle. I've attached it below should anyone need it and is unsure of what to put in the letter. Hope it helps some people.

[Your address]
[Manager/ owner]
[Dealership address]
Dear Sir/ Madam
Ref: [registration number of vehicle]
On [date] I purchased, and took delivery of, the above vehicle [make and model] from you. On [date] I discovered that it was not of satisfactory quality: [describe the problem].
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires dealers to supply goods that are fit for purpose, as described and of satisfactory quality. However, the vehicle is clearly not roadworthy. You are therefore in breach of contract.
[If you've owned the car for less than 30 days] I am legally entitled to reject the vehicle and to be reimbursed the original purchase price of [£xx]. I look forward to receiving your cheque for this sum within 14 days.
[If you've owned the car for more than 30 days] I am legally entitled to ask that your repair or replace this vehicle at no further cost to me. If you are unable to do so, I expect to be reimbursed the original purchase price of [£xx], minus an agreed amount for fair usage.
If you fail to reimburse me, I shall have no alternative but to issue a claim against you in the county court for recovery of the money without further reference to you.
Yours faithfully,
[Your name and signature]

 

[Pinocchio_888]

If due in one month, when is your build week? Don’t worry about regretting anything as you have 30 days to reject if the worst comes to the worst. That gives you up to the end of December for a final bellows solution. I know the situation is not ideal, but take it one step at a time!

Build week 42 and I was told it should be here by end of November/beginning December. I might check if there is any update since 2 weeks ago. Ordered back in September.

 

[WelshGas]

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires dealers to supply goods that are fit for purpose, as described and of satisfactory quality. However, the vehicle is clearly not roadworthy. You are therefore in breach of contract.
[If you've owned the car for less than 30 days] I am legally entitled to reject the vehicle and to be reimbursed the original purchase price of [£xx]. I look forward to receiving your cheque for this sum within 14 days.

I would suggest changing “ roadworthy “ for “ not fit for purpose “. Because the fact that the bellows leaks does not make the vehicle “ not roadworthy “ and could be problematic.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Build week 42 and I was told it should be here by end of November/beginning December. I might check if there is any update since 2 weeks ago. Ordered back in September.

I'd be interested to see if yours has been built, I was supposed to be week 43 and I've been told it'll be last week in Nov?

 

[Ryanrunsfar123]

Has anyone collected a new van in the last 2 weeks or so to see if there have been any updates from factory rather than fixes (that don’t work). Mine is due end of Nov and reading this post, I am now starting to regret it.

Yes. Got mine last week. And as expected, the bellows leak. Despite it coming with the infamous ‘sticker’ that Eurovans mentioned ti me enthusiastically two or three times. I’m still deliberating about what to do - I actually want this van as it’s awesome aside from the leak. Ideally there’s a proper VW fix that puts the issue to bed and we can all move on. Wishful thinking I know but come on VW!!!
I’ve worked in Automotive engineering for 12 years and if either of the companies I have worked for experienced this many ‘buybacks’ (rejections) there would have been a high pressure task-force established to sort it out. I just can’t see how there would be apathy from VW on this. It’s so brand defining / strategic for VW that these vehicle work despite the relative low volume. hmmm

 

[Corradobrit]

I just can’t see how there would be apathy from VW on this. It’s so brand defining / strategic for VW that these vehicle work despite the relative low volume. hmmm

And this is what is so baffling. You only needed to attend this years Busfest event in Hannover to understand the significance of this model to the history of the brand and how much VW still leverage its legacy for marketing. VW seem blind to the damage this debacle is causing in the eyes of its most important asset....US, we the owners and customers.