Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Corradobrit]

Does anyone have Ewan MacGregor's phone number?

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

Yes. Got mine last week. And as expected, the bellows leak. Despite it coming with the infamous ‘sticker’ that Eurovans mentioned ti me enthusiastically two or three times. I’m still deliberating about what to do - I actually want this van as it’s awesome aside from the leak. Ideally there’s a proper VW fix that puts the issue to bed and we can all move on. Wishful thinking I know but come on VW!!!
I’ve worked in Automotive engineering for 12 years and if either of the companies I have worked for experienced this many ‘buybacks’ (rejections) there would have been a high pressure task-force established to sort it out. I just can’t see how there would be apathy from VW on this. It’s so brand defining / strategic for VW that these vehicle work despite the relative low volume. hmmm

The worrying thing is the sticker hints that they have been through quality control and testing. If they are passing, what test are vw doing.
After hearing that vw are asking dealers to leave them out in the rain. I don't want to book mine in for new bellows, the amount of rain that could come into my Cali over night would be devastating. Seats, electrics etc and problems down the line when warranty is finished.

 

[dspuk]

Yes. Got mine last week. And as expected, the bellows leak. Despite it coming with the infamous ‘sticker’ that Eurovans mentioned ti me enthusiastically two or three times. I’m still deliberating about what to do - I actually want this van as it’s awesome aside from the leak. Ideally there’s a proper VW fix that puts the issue to bed and we can all move on. Wishful thinking I know but come on VW!!!
I’ve worked in Automotive engineering for 12 years and if either of the companies I have worked for experienced this many ‘buybacks’ (rejections) there would have been a high pressure task-force established to sort it out. I just can’t see how there would be apathy from VW on this. It’s so brand defining / strategic for VW that these vehicle work despite the relative low volume. hmmm

I'm 99% sure that there will be a task force in place. In warranty land we had multiple teams running for these sorts of concerns.

My guess is that they just have not been able to fix it and various attempts (bellows versions and stickers) are failing in market.

It's a right royal VW c0ck up, for sure. We had a couple that were tricky, bumper paint issues and some cars randomly cutting out and losing keyless signal, but never anything this overwhelmingly badly managed.

I semi-empathise with the poor comms - coordinated comms in corporate land is a mess, but also any major warranty concern + legal issues means nothing is said. Ever. Unless forced by a court or government (see Toyota accelerator issues, which ironically were likely in the end to have been customer fitted mats).

 

[Ryanrunsfar123]

I'm 99% sure that there will be a task force in place. In warranty land we had multiple teams running for these sorts of concerns.

My guess is that they just have not been able to fix it and various attempts (bellows versions and stickers) are failing in market.

It's a right royal VW c0ck up, for sure. We had a couple that were tricky, bumper paint issues and some cars randomly cutting out and losing keyless signal, but never anything this overwhelmingly badly managed.

Yeah fully agree this is most likely. Shocking from one of the biggest automotive companies on earth! I’ve messaged some old colleagues in VW to see if they can find anything out. Unsurprisingly, bellows are not their area of expertise tho

 

[RockinNRollin]

I have heard the suggestion that it's only bellows delivered in the UK since mid October that are the "new new" ones . . . now, any van that has been collected in the last two weeks will have had the bellows fitted mid-September at the latest I suspect, and I get the impression parts stock gets here rapidly compared with vehicles, so maybe the latest factory builds are behind the curve on the latest bellows? It's bizarre though that the factory continues to churn out vehicles knowing there's a significant problem - I can only assume it's better financially for them to continue to shift units and suck up the cost of remedial work than have a growing stockpile of part-built Calis somewhere.

 

[dspuk]

I have heard the suggestion that it's only bellows delivered in the UK since mid October that are the "new new" ones . . . now, any van that has been collected in the last two weeks will have had the bellows fitted mid-September at the latest I suspect, and I get the impression parts stock gets here rapidly compared with vehicles, so maybe the latest factory builds are behind the curve on the latest bellows? It's bizarre though that the factory continues to churn out vehicles knowing there's a significant problem - I can only assume it's better financially for them to continue to shift units and suck up the cost of remedial work than have a growing stockpile of part-built Calis somewhere.

It is bizzare. Unless they have a "if they fail" edict in place. After a parts update we used to send teams of lads in repair gangs around the car storage parks to replace parts with the new designed ones. That this has not happened continues to point to a lack of confidence in any of the end fixes. Trying times and after our initial jealousy at not getting the new bellows I sigh with relief every time we camp and it rains.

 

[RockinNRollin]

It is bizzare. Unless they have a "if they fail" edict in place. After a parts update we used to send teams of lads in repair gangs around the car storage parks to replace parts with the new designed ones. That this has not happened continues to point to a lack of confidence in any of the end fixes. Trying times and after our initial jealousy at not getting the new bellows I sigh with relief every time we camp and it rains.

I think they're hanging onto a theory that only some of them leak; I really think though this is because a) not all owners are exposing their vans to rain so aren't reporting it and b) dealers are inconsistent with how they test watertightness themselves. If they think it's variability in quality of manufacture, rather than design, perhaps they're hoping they can "fix" the issue by replacing until one of the "better" ones is installed? I don't get it though - the bellows will almost certainly be manufactured by a third party, that third party simply isn't meeting contractual requirements (unless the contract isn't . . . err . . . watertight) so I don't get why they don't appear to be holding them over a barrel until they resolve it.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

It is bizzare. Unless they have a "if they fail" edict in place. After a parts update we used to send teams of lads in repair gangs around the car storage parks to replace parts with the new designed ones. That this has not happened continues to point to a lack of confidence in any of the end fixes. Trying times and after our initial jealousy at not getting the new bellows I sigh with relief every time we camp and it rains.

I wonder if the reported failure rate is only around 10-15% perhaps. It’s owners who are switched on and/or on this forum who will realise there’s an issue or used their camper in appropriately rainy conditions (which probably aren’t the conditions most people would choose camp in). I expect most owners are oblivious and so have not reported or tried to warranty claim for any issues. In terms of numbers to VW that paints a picture of only a failure of some units, though it’s pretty obvious from our perspective that most likely all will leak to some degree. If that’s correct then there’s no need for them to stop production, and there’s a good chance most rejected vans will get sold on to more unsuspecting people. Financially I suspect this makes it way better for VW to continue production and keep delivering the vans.

 

[ArunAlec]

It would be interesting to know if VW are actually feeling any real pain as a consequence of rejections. I get the feeling that those who are rejecting are still intending to purchase a California at a later date and that the rejected vans just get put back on the forecourt and get resold. The financial loss to VW is probably negligible overall and the damage to their reputation of little consequence as it’s confined to the relatively small “active” California community.
The fact that there’s been little if any publicity in the wider camper/Motorhome world (much like the corroding roof episode) makes me think VW don’t need to worry!

 

[Ryanrunsfar123]

Short of it being a safety issue (clearly isn’t) they’re always going to opt for fix on failure - either in some belief that only some parts are impacted, or simply because it’ll mean only X% need repairing as some simply won’t do it / don’t care / don’t camp in the rain etc.

For instance, in the summer we hired a 23MY Cali with new bellows. We went to Wales for a week in mostly heavy rain. I was conscious of parking the van such that the wind hit the roof on the slope angle, not hitting the front of the bellows. For 6 days and nights it rained very heavily and was quite windy and honestly the only leakage was what looked like condensation on the roof frame. Then on the 7th night we stayed at a camp site and I had no choice but to park it front on to the wind and rain… 45 mins later I was closing the roof and I slept in the awning.

My point being, there’s a good chance lots of people will not experience this until the conditions are right - then it’ll hit ‘em hard! So VW probably won’t see it as ‘100% of vehicles are failing’.
I’d also bet the warranty / quality teams are reading these forums!

 

[Kayleigh]

I'd be interested to see if yours has been built, I was supposed to be week 43 and I've been told it'll be last week in Nov?

I knew someone had been pushed back. I wonder what happened between week 42 and 43.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

It would be interesting to know if VW are actually feeling any real pain as a consequence of rejections. I get the feeling that those who are rejecting are still intending to purchase a California at a later date and that the rejected vans just get put back on the forecourt and get resold. The financial loss to VW is probably negligible overall and the damage to their reputation of little consequence as it’s confined to the relatively small “active” California community.
The fact that there’s been little if any publicity in the wider camper/Motorhome world (much like the corroding roof episode) makes me think VW don’t need to worry!

Given that VW enjoyed record sales after the emissions cheating scandal; They won’t be worried about leaky Cali roofs…people will still queue up to buy them.

 

[dspuk]

I’d also bet the warranty / quality teams are reading these forums!

We used to. In fact we had relationships with all the forum admins who would keep us informed.

 

[stationmaster]

It would be interesting to know if VW are actually feeling any real pain as a consequence of rejections. I get the feeling that those who are rejecting are still intending to purchase a California at a later date and that the rejected vans just get put back on the forecourt and get resold. The financial loss to VW is probably negligible overall and the damage to their reputation of little consequence as it’s confined to the relatively small “active” California community.
The fact that there’s been little if any publicity in the wider camper/Motorhome world (much like the corroding roof episode) makes me think VW don’t need to worry!

Possibly. Looks like having a good supplying dealership is key...

 

[Betsycalifornia]

New bellows for mine (the back order) is now arriving Monday the 6th of November. dealer has assured me they’ll be soak tested before being signed off. Fingers crossed.

 

[ParachuteMan]

Short of it being a safety issue (clearly isn’t) they’re always going to opt for fix on failure - either in some belief that only some parts are impacted, or simply because it’ll mean only X% need repairing as some simply won’t do it / don’t care / don’t camp in the rain etc.

For instance, in the summer we hired a 23MY Cali with new bellows. We went to Wales for a week in mostly heavy rain. I was conscious of parking the van such that the wind hit the roof on the slope angle, not hitting the front of the bellows. For 6 days and nights it rained very heavily and was quite windy and honestly the only leakage was what looked like condensation on the roof frame. Then on the 7th night we stayed at a camp site and I had no choice but to park it front on to the wind and rain… 45 mins later I was closing the roof and I slept in the awning.

My point being, there’s a good chance lots of people will not experience this until the conditions are right - then it’ll hit ‘em hard! So VW probably won’t see it as ‘100% of vehicles are failing’.
I’d also bet the warranty / quality teams are reading these forums!

That’s very interesting and a little encouraging - although it should be working in all directions. Mine is 4 weeks old and I’ve yet to test the bellows in rain. My dealer is quite supportive and his view was “I wouldn’t leave my Cali at a dealer outside for a week or so waiting for it to rain” I’m also itching to use Nikwax waterproofing on the fabric to stop the wetting through and Stormseal to coat the seams “seals all stitching holes”. But I’ve been told twice this may affect the warranty. But why can’t they let me have a go - it it works, saves Deale time, VW materials and my stress …

 

[RockinNRollin]

That’s very interesting and a little encouraging - although it should be working in all directions. Mine is 4 weeks old and I’ve yet to test the bellows in rain. My dealer is quite supportive and his view was “I wouldn’t leave my Cali at a dealer outside for a week or so waiting for it to rain” I’m also itching to use Nikwax waterproofing on the fabric to stop the wetting through and Stormseal to coat the seams “seals all stitching holes”. But I’ve been told twice this may affect the warranty. But why can’t they let me have a go - it it works, saves Deale time, VW materials and my stress …

Seriously, don't tamper with your bellows unless you're prepared to keep them without any comeback (and that includes any other faults they may develop). The exception would be if you discovered they leaked, the dealer confirms this and either the dealer replaces them and they still leak, or they acknowledge there's a problem and don't see the point in fitting new ones until a solution is resolved, you can then get written permission from the dealer or VW themselves that you can do that. Even then though, I bet you wouldn't get that permission in case the final "fix" is actually some sort of in-situ repair and if the fabric has been treated with anything, that might make it difficult to effect the repair if any kind of sealant or adhesive is involved as the fabric will need be completely cleaned of any residue.

 

[ArunAlec]

That’s very interesting and a little encouraging - although it should be working in all directions. Mine is 4 weeks old and I’ve yet to test the bellows in rain. My dealer is quite supportive and his view was “I wouldn’t leave my Cali at a dealer outside for a week or so waiting for it to rain” I’m also itching to use Nikwax waterproofing on the fabric to stop the wetting through and Stormseal to coat the seams “seals all stitching holes”. But I’ve been told twice this may affect the warranty. But why can’t they let me have a go - it it works, saves Deale time, VW materials and my stress …

Definitely don’t try anything that will negate your warranty! Unless the Owner‘ Manual has changed it specifically says don’t apply any treatments to the fabric.

 

[Julesverne2000]

That’s very interesting and a little encouraging - although it should be working in all directions. Mine is 4 weeks old and I’ve yet to test the bellows in rain. My dealer is quite supportive and his view was “I wouldn’t leave my Cali at a dealer outside for a week or so waiting for it to rain” I’m also itching to use Nikwax waterproofing on the fabric to stop the wetting through and Stormseal to coat the seams “seals all stitching holes”. But I’ve been told twice this may affect the warranty. But why can’t they let me have a go - it it works, saves Deale time, VW materials and my stress …

I have a lot of sympathy for this position. This is why it would be really useful to know what the latest modifications to the bellows are and what methods used. If VW are just applying a sealant (as now mentioned via the German forum), then let us know what type. Eventually, photos of the latest bellows might emerge. I’d much rather apply myself than leave it to the dealer with all that involves.

 

[Ryanrunsfar123]

It's funny isn't it - I have a canvas bell tent that would leak like a sieve unless I painted it with Fabsil every 12-24mo... it takes me 20 mins and is no issue at all. If it were allowed / approved I'd just get sealing and happily move on!

 

[Tressle]

in my various email conversations with VWEO they have been quite responsive and have shown willing to help with the leaking issue - except with regards as to the fix. When I pointed out that they had failed entirely to address my questions as to what was different with the new bellows they simply stopped replying. I wonder if they know the cause of the problem or the solution and are simply taking instruction from VW Germany.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

I also thought it was rather revealing that my dealer said "we expected to hear back from the 8-9 we delivered after the recent storms but didn't" Clearly they don't care to test them themselves they would rather take their dealer bonuses or VW are telling them not to look for faults.
I intend to make it clear to the dealer just before collection that they either thoroughly water test my bellows or they refund my deposit to me in full. But making it clear that there is no debate if they subsequently leak - I will auto-reject the car which they can collect at their own expense from the other side of the country. It will be interesting to see which option they choose?????

 

[Jimmylondon07]

I also thought it was rather revealing that my dealer said "we expected to hear back from the 8-9 we delivered after the recent storms but didn't" Clearly they don't care to test them themselves they would rather take their dealer bonuses or VW are telling them not to look for faults.
I intend to make it clear to the dealer just before collection that they either thoroughly water test my bellows or they refund my deposit to me in full. But making it clear that there is no debate if they subsequently leak - I will auto-reject the car which they can collect at their own expense from the other side of the country. It will be interesting to see which option they choose?????

Barry the good news is they now know what a 'thorough' test entails so there can be no excuse. My pre-delivery 'thorough' test passed and no issue was identified but during my second 'thorough' test, outside of the 30 day return window, a leak was identified by the very same team. The situation is still ongoing.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Barry the good news is they now know what a 'thorough' test entails so there can be no excuse. My pre-delivery 'thorough' test passed and no issue was identified but during my second 'thorough' test, outside of the 30 day return window, a leak was identified by the very same team. The situation is still ongoing.

Yes I believe they use a small water pistol on the <30 day tests and a proper hose on the >30 days tests. My heart really goes out to you Jimmy, you must be sick to the teeth of the whole sorry affair.

 

[UrbanSplash]

I just just don’t get it. Looking at folks pics and videos of the leaks…..it seems to come through the seams/stitching. This is obviously an issue for anything waterproof that has joints. I wonder what’s different between the stitching on older (non leaking) bellows and these new ones. Tape sealing seems effective on most use cases, like jackets, but as far as I know this has never been applied to bellows. Due to the material type perhaps. So it seems this dual layer system might be the issue. But no idea why!

Would love to see videos of the joints on old bellows versus new.