Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Californication69]

Tough call, but I would consider rejecting the vehicle after all the steps you took to insist on an 04S version of the bellows.

At the very least it might focus some attention on fixing the problem.

A difficult call though without knowing the deal you got on your Cali, if you plan to use the van over the winter and if you could get a similar deal on a new factory order.

We ordered our 204 Ocean 4Motion a couple of weeks ago and I am just hoping the bellow problem will be sorted on new builds.

It must be so annoying and disappointing given the cost of the van.

After a shocking experience with a £50k Jeep Wrangler a few years ago, involving multiple wasted journeys to two different incompetent dealerships, three trips on a recovery truck and complete apathy from Jeep UK, I am hoping my VW ownership will be better. But I am starting to have second thoughts

I’ve been running a MY23 4Motion for a year now. It’s absolutely fantastic.
You will NOT be disappointed.
Bellows can be replaced.

 

[stationmaster]

I’ve been running a MY23 4Motion for a year now. It’s absolutely fantastic.
You will NOT be disappointed.
Bellows can be replaced.

Many are justifiably disappointed.

 

[Californication69]

Many are justifiably disappointed.

The whole 4Motion vehicle or the bellows ?

 

[Californication69]

The bellows fiasco, is an absolute joke.
But they can be replaced.
It takes time, to go through the proper channels, and get a resolution.
Just keep a professional tone with VW Commercial support and it will get fixed.
It took me 6 months to get the £7k worth of lacquer replaced and completed.
A ball ache, yes, but doesn’t detract from owning the best campervan money can buy.
Period.
Keep on at VW commercial.
Get a support ticket, and ring once a month and find out the name who you spoke with.
And ask for that person to get back to you.
Make notes of dates and time and what was discussed.
Keep this thread updated to help others reach a resolution.

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

Took my Cali in for bellows this morning (yesterday now). The last conversation I had with Adrian from customer care was he was going to talk to the dealer and get them to order the bellows ready for my van.

On arrival, they said the bellows were not available and on backorder but would like to keep the van for testing. I pointed out that they had already been tested and customer care had given their authority to order the bellows. (Don't know if they are the decision makers for warranty or can overrule matters).

Bottom line, I drove back home in the Cali, it's better with me than sitting in the VW dealer.

No contact from customer care or the dealer, so may have dodged getting 03 bellows fitted if there are still some in the system.

Andy c, I feel so sorry for you, what a fecking mess.

 

[RockinNRollin]

The bottom line to all of this . . . communication, communication, communication. EO, Dealers, VW Technical and VW in Germany seem to be on different planets. My guess is this culture is top-down, probably instilled by a "lowly subsidiary" and "lowly franchise" perspective of those higher up the chain perhaps. Whatever the root cause, I think communication is the fundamental issue in this entire mess.

 

[Corradobrit]

The bottom line to all of this . . . communication, communication, communication. EO, Dealers, VW Technical and VW in Germany seem to be on different planets. My guess is this culture is top-down, probably instilled by a "lowly subsidiary" and "lowly franchise" perspective of those higher up the chain perhaps. Whatever the root cause, I think communication is the fundamental issue in this entire mess.

But as was described yesterday, even when you think you have perfect 'communication', things still go awry. To get 03S when the installing dealer says they have and will install 04S just beggars belief. The whole VW chain has failed its customers from the very top down to the lowly dealer.
I want to see incontrovertible evidence, namely a photo image of the tags and job paperwork stating what is being installed. It seems that is the only way to ensure a satisfactory outcome, since verbal assurances are clearly meaningless.

 

[RockinNRollin]

But as was described yesterday, even when you think you have perfect 'communication', things still go awry. To get 03S when the installing dealer says they have and will install 04S just beggars belief. The whole VW chain has failed its customers from the very top down to the lowly dealer.
I want to see incontrovertible evidence, namely a photo image of the tags and job paperwork stating what is being installed. It seems that is the only way to ensure a satisfactory outcome, since verbal assurances are clearly meaningless.

Is this not still a case of broken communication though, just one that superficially appeared clear cut?

 

[Californication69]

Took my Cali in for bellows this morning (yesterday now). The last conversation I had with Adrian from customer care was he was going to talk to the dealer and get them to order the bellows ready for my van.

On arrival, they said the bellows were not available and on backorder but would like to keep the van for testing. I pointed out that they had already been tested and customer care had given their authority to order the bellows. (Don't know if they are the decision makers for warranty or can overrule matters).

Bottom line, I drove back home in the Cali, it's better with me than sitting in the VW dealer.

No contact from customer care or the dealer, so may have dodged getting 03 bellows fitted if there are still some in the system.

Andy c, I feel so sorry for you, what a fecking mess.

VW Commercial tell the van centres what to do.
The buck stops with VWC support.
You did the right thing.
Why the chuff would they want to keep the vehicle when it’s already been signed off by VWC.
Some garages are weird.
Glad you have confirmation your bellows will be changed.

 

[Corradobrit]

Is this not still a case of broken communication though, just one that superficially appeared clear cut?

Not from the perspective of owner. He thought he had perfect communication until he got the Cali back. Only then did the communication fail since the dealership hadn't hadn't followed through. Not much more the owner could have done except request physical evidence of that was to be installed.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

As a matter of interest do the dealers always offer a courtesy vehicle FOC whilst the vehicles are in getting bellows replaced?

I know in my experience car dealers will often try to avoid the cost of supplying one when my cars have been in?

 

[Corradobrit]

As a matter of interest do the dealers always offer a courtesy vehicle FOC whilst the vehicles are in getting bellows replaced?

I know in my experience car dealers will often try to avoid the cost of supplying one when my cars have been in?

If its your only means of transport I believe the dealers have an obligation to supply a loaner. They might grumble but I would be firm. Maybe Tom @breeze can clarify the official dealer responsibility.

 

[Andy C Berks.]

Took my Cali in for bellows this morning (yesterday now). The last conversation I had with Adrian from customer care was he was going to talk to the dealer and get them to order the bellows ready for my van.

On arrival, they said the bellows were not available and on backorder but would like to keep the van for testing. I pointed out that they had already been tested and customer care had given their authority to order the bellows. (Don't know if they are the decision makers for warranty or can overrule matters).

Bottom line, I drove back home in the Cali, it's better with me than sitting in the VW dealer.

No contact from customer care or the dealer, so may have dodged getting 03 bellows fitted if there are still some in the system.

Andy c, I feel so sorry for you, what a fecking mess.

it gets worse - looked at van in daylight this morning (it was dark when collected from Marshall’s yesterday) and there is a big chip in the paintwork on the drivers door - the first and only mark on the bodywork that has been so well looked after by us in its first 5 months. it’s hard to remain level headed at times like this - I do love the van but …….

 

[Corradobrit]

it gets worse - looked at van in daylight this morning (it was dark when collected from Marshall’s yesterday) and there is a big chip in the paintwork on the drivers door - the first and only mark on the bodywork that has been so well looked after by us in its first 5 months. it’s hard to remain level headed at times like this - I do love the van but …….

View attachment 116789

Its like people just don't care anymore. A 'luxury' (cost wise) vehicle treated like a builders panel van. All these little niggles erode the pride of ownership. What are your plans now you have had a night to sleep on it? I am curious if the new bellows leak.

 

[babble]

But as was described yesterday, even when you think you have perfect 'communication', things still go awry. To get 03S when the installing dealer says they have and will install 04S just beggars belief. The whole VW chain has failed its customers from the very top down to the lowly dealer.
I want to see incontrovertible evidence, namely a photo image of the tags and job paperwork stating what is being installed. It seems that is the only way to ensure a satisfactory outcome, since verbal assurances are clearly meaningless.

will you be getting yours replaced Corradobrit? I'm wondering if VW Belgium are only offering to wax coat mine, i might try in the UK when i am back there.

 

[Corradobrit]

will you be getting yours replaced Corradobrit?

Definitely. I am waiting for some positive reviews for the 04S (still not clear if this a definitive fix) and then plan to have the work done in Feb/March. I can't do it now as I don't have a secure area to keep the roof up to make sure its fully dried out after I do my own field testing. And there is a still a risk that 03S bellows are circulating in the dealer network.

 

[Andy C Berks.]

Its like people just don't care anymore. A 'luxury' (cost wise) vehicle treated like a builders panel van. All these little niggles erode the pride of ownership. What are your plans now you have had a night to sleep on it? I am curious if the new bellows leak.

Am really not sure what to do - 48 hours ago I was 80% for keeping it and blindly hoping that the 04S bellows would be fitted and that would be that. Mrs C was all for keeping it. This morning she is fully behind me if I want to reject it, and I must say I am >50% for doing that :-
- replacing 03S with 03S even if they don’t leak today, will they next week, next month and so on, and what will that even do to the resale ability versus an educated purchaser in future years
- the paintwork damage inflicted by the dealer now makes it damaged goods and besides the pain of getting them to repair it, it will never be right as it’s not just a part to be replaced
- then radio silence so far today from both dealer and EO - apparently the manager at Marshalls was in a meeting (how many times are they in a meeting when a customer has a complaint) but still no call back nor reply to emails. Just to wind me up even more the email provided on the workshop docs for receipt of customer feedback, bounced back as non-existent (probably says it all about attitude to customer service).

Thing is you are right, they will (maybe already have) fix the bellows but right now, as much as I love the van, it’s hard to be objective and radio silence and continued poor comms from VW will turn a salvageable situation in to something else.

 

[Kayleigh]

Am really not sure what to do - 48 hours ago I was 80% for keeping it and blindly hoping that the 04S bellows would be fitted and that would be that. Mrs C was all for keeping it. This morning she is fully behind me if I want to reject it, and I must say I am >50% for doing that :-
- replacing 03S with 03S even if they don’t leak today, will they next week, next month and so on, and what will that even do to the resale ability versus an educated purchaser in future years
- the paintwork damage inflicted by the dealer now makes it damaged goods and besides the pain of getting them to repair it, it will never be right as it’s not just a part to be replaced
- then radio silence so far today from both dealer and EO - apparently the manager at Marshalls was in a meeting (how many times are they in a meeting when a customer has a complaint) but still no call back nor reply to emails. Just to wind me up even more the email provided on the workshop docs for receipt of customer feedback, bounced back as non-existent (probably says it all about attitude to customer service).

Thing is you are right, they will (maybe already have) fix the bellows but right now, as much as I love the van, it’s hard to be objective and radio silence and continued poor comms from VW will turn a salvageable situation in to something else.

I know what I would do, but you obviously have to think through what’s right for you.

It does seem that your experience has been tainted as much by Marshalls themselves as the bellows issues, and ‘radio silence’ also seems to be a theme here.
If you choose to reject, you always have the option to re-order a new van through another dealer. Waiting lists are 3-4 months I understand, so you would receive it in the spring.

 

[Corradobrit]

Am really not sure what to do - 48 hours ago I was 80% for keeping it and blindly hoping that the 04S bellows would be fitted and that would be that. Mrs C was all for keeping it. This morning she is fully behind me if I want to reject it, and I must say I am >50% for doing that :-
- replacing 03S with 03S even if they don’t leak today, will they next week, next month and so on, and what will that even do to the resale ability versus an educated purchaser in future years
- the paintwork damage inflicted by the dealer now makes it damaged goods and besides the pain of getting them to repair it, it will never be right as it’s not just a part to be replaced
- then radio silence so far today from both dealer and EO - apparently the manager at Marshalls was in a meeting (how many times are they in a meeting when a customer has a complaint) but still no call back nor reply to emails. Just to wind me up even more the email provided on the workshop docs for receipt of customer feedback, bounced back as non-existent (probably says it all about attitude to customer service).

Thing is you are right, they will (maybe already have) fix the bellows but right now, as much as I love the van, it’s hard to be objective and radio silence and continued poor comms from VW will turn a salvageable situation in to something else.

Factoring everything. If you can still reject, I would be taking that route. Then place an order with another dealer and hope the new bellows will have addressed the leaking problem. In the grand scheme of things the bellows are probably the easiest major component to put right. What we have to deal with is the outsourcing to 3rd party companies and that internal sign off procedures are severely lacking (in part as the MY23/24 T6.1 is end of model).
I hope the dealer is not going to cause a fuss about the ding. Driving off the forecourt before noticing isn't going to make things easier.
Get the bellows tested and see how things go from there. Maybe Liverpool should then be your next call.
Good luck though.

 

[stationmaster]

The whole 4Motion vehicle or the bellows ?

For sure many of us love the California. I have purchased many of them, and i am not alone. But the issues with the roof are significant and the matter has not been improved by some uncaring dealership "support".

 

[CamperFam]

Am really not sure what to do - 48 hours ago I was 80% for keeping it and blindly hoping that the 04S bellows would be fitted and that would be that. Mrs C was all for keeping it. This morning she is fully behind me if I want to reject it, and I must say I am >50% for doing that :-
- replacing 03S with 03S even if they don’t leak today, will they next week, next month and so on, and what will that even do to the resale ability versus an educated purchaser in future years
- the paintwork damage inflicted by the dealer now makes it damaged goods and besides the pain of getting them to repair it, it will never be right as it’s not just a part to be replaced
- then radio silence so far today from both dealer and EO - apparently the manager at Marshalls was in a meeting (how many times are they in a meeting when a customer has a complaint) but still no call back nor reply to emails. Just to wind me up even more the email provided on the workshop docs for receipt of customer feedback, bounced back as non-existent (probably says it all about attitude to customer service).

Thing is you are right, they will (maybe already have) fix the bellows but right now, as much as I love the van, it’s hard to be objective and radio silence and continued poor comms from VW will turn a salvageable situation in to something else.

My goodness - that's utterly attrocious. Honestly, i'd be utterly fuming if I was in that position. I've had it before where i've come away frm a dealer with vehicle damage and it really does get me raging. It also goes a good way at removing the love for a vehicle with all this drama and stress.

 

[Julesverne2000]

Am really not sure what to do - 48 hours ago I was 80% for keeping it and blindly hoping that the 04S bellows would be fitted and that would be that. Mrs C was all for keeping it. This morning she is fully behind me if I want to reject it, and I must say I am >50% for doing that :-
- replacing 03S with 03S even if they don’t leak today, will they next week, next month and so on, and what will that even do to the resale ability versus an educated purchaser in future years
- the paintwork damage inflicted by the dealer now makes it damaged goods and besides the pain of getting them to repair it, it will never be right as it’s not just a part to be replaced
- then radio silence so far today from both dealer and EO - apparently the manager at Marshalls was in a meeting (how many times are they in a meeting when a customer has a complaint) but still no call back nor reply to emails. Just to wind me up even more the email provided on the workshop docs for receipt of customer feedback, bounced back as non-existent (probably says it all about attitude to customer service).

Thing is you are right, they will (maybe already have) fix the bellows but right now, as much as I love the van, it’s hard to be objective and radio silence and continued poor comms from VW will turn a salvageable situation in to something else.

On the damage to the door, I understand how you’re feeling but this can be repaired. I had a ding in the summer and felt sick for days. Had it repaired at a VW bodyshop and the repair was perfect and something I no longer think about. Try to put this frustration to one side and base your decision on the bellows.

 

[Andy C Berks.]

So, a further update! Had a call from Adrian at EO - his news is that today a formal message has gone out on their system to dealers to say that a version of the bellows with a manufactured date of 9th November 2023 onwards are the ones to fit, and will be available from December. He wasn’t sure if these are tagged as version 04S, nor whether the few 04S versions already in the wild are just an advance release of these.
Sounded like this is the first time an official note has been put on their system around this issue, and I don’t know what format it takes but sounded like the dealers should be able to see it from today.
Hopefully positive news amongst a fog of calamity and false starts but once again, only time will tell …….

 

[stationmaster]

So, a further update! Had a call from Adrian at EO - his news is that today a formal message has gone out on their system to dealers to say that a version of the bellows with a manufactured date of 9th November 2023 onwards are the ones to fit, and will be available from December. He wasn’t sure if these are tagged as version 04S, nor whether the few 04S versions already in the wild are just an advance release of these.
Sounded like this is the first time an official note has been put on their system around this issue, and I don’t know what format it takes but sounded like the dealers should be able to see it from today.
Hopefully positive news amongst a fog of calamity and false starts but once again, only time will tell …….

Thanks for the update...and i hope this goes some way to making you feel a little better about things - as there may be an end in sight?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

So, a further update! Had a call from Adrian at EO - his news is that today a formal message has gone out on their system to dealers to say that a version of the bellows with a manufactured date of 9th November 2023 onwards are the ones to fit, and will be available from December. He wasn’t sure if these are tagged as version 04S, nor whether the few 04S versions already in the wild are just an advance release of these.
Sounded like this is the first time an official note has been put on their system around this issue, and I don’t know what format it takes but sounded like the dealers should be able to see it from today.
Hopefully positive news amongst a fog of calamity and false starts but once again, only time will tell …….

That’s the most concrete thing I’ve heard from the EO. Can’t argue with an actual date of manufacture.