Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[flying banana]

This is getting crazy
So now we have reports of the very latest, latest, latest versions leaking.

For my education as a newbie to all this, please wind the clock back a few months or years.

Was there always a problem with leaks but folks just put up with them, or has there been a significant increase with later generations of bellows?

If the latter, why don't VW just move back to the previous design if it proved so reliable? How hard can it be? Am I missing something?

to answer that,i have T6 single skin bellows. i have just been in a very very wet lake district for 8 days with the roof up. packed the roof away wet to move sites and when reopened had zero water ingress anywhere in the van or bed. i have had a wet quilt before though due to it touching the sides and wicking water through in a storm. rain should not be an issue in a campervan,as others have said,converters roofs are generally ok too,and so are tents

 

[stationmaster]

to answer that,i have T6 single skin bellows. i have just been in a very very wet lake district for 8 days with the roof up. packed the roof away wet to move sites and when reopened had zero water ingress anywhere in the van or bed. i have had a wet quilt before though due to it touching the sides and wicking water through in a storm. rain should not be an issue in a campervan,as others have said,converters roofs are generally ok too,and so are tents

Thanks for this, very helpful. My experience owning a T6 Ocean and a T5 Ocean? No issues with the bellow - they performed perfectly. Zero leaks/water ingress.

 

[flying banana]

Thanks for this, very helpful. My experience owning a T6 Ocean and a T5 Ocean? No issues with the bellow - they performed perfectly. Zero leaks/water ingress.

its annoying to read dealers saying they are only shower proof too. big shame too as when i saw those new bellows i thought they looked amazing

 

[stationmaster]

Have you recently taken delivery of a new California?

Are the roof bellows 03S or 04S or 04S with an "A" sticker? (identification tag attached to inside bellows).

Any issues with leaking? Or all OK?

Thanks

 

[stationmaster]

its annoying to read dealers saying they are only shower proof too. big shame too as when i saw those new bellows i thought they looked amazing

I agree. VW had good intentions is my guess, multi layer bellows are quieter, warmer and let less light pass through.

 

[Corradobrit]

multi layer bellows are quieter, warmer and let less light pass through.

They are also the choice for future MV based poptop models like the MV Cali Concept. 3 layer vs 2 layer, but I wonder how they perform when soaked.

 

[stationmaster]

They are also the choice for future MV based poptop models like the MV Cali Concept. 3 layer vs 2 layer, but I wonder how they perform when soaked.

...likely the Multi Van pop top bellows will be fine - i understand VW are putting them through comprehensive field testing on the transporter based California.

 

[stationmaster]

That's the problem, we all just want to be able to go out and use the van. It's not much use if it leaks when there is a bit of drizzle outside.

For us, most of our use will be off grid, so we are reluctant to spend near £1300 on getting solar fitted if the roof isn't up to scratch / questionable. Also, for the most part, I want to be able to be a digital nomad and work inside my van while travelling so I'll have expensive equipment in the van that I do not want to get wet!

I'll be sending an email to my dealer today explaining my worries and I'll see what they come back with. It's all good and well saying they'll support us if there is an issue, but that's a good 1 - 2 month messing around, testing the bellows, getting them replaced and testing them again when you should be able to use them with no problems from day 1.

At the end of the day, our config is costing (after discounts) over £80k. We had a camper from a well known converter five years ago and we used the poptop in a storm and it was water tight. That van was half the cost. That being said, due to other issues we wouldn't go back to them and hence why we opted for a California. It's made in factory by Volkswagen and has a warranty (in our case 5 years). It should be relatively worry free apart from the odd warning light on the dash appearing as you drive it and go on long trips.

markbrown83 - If you're happy to share, be good to hear if you've made any progress in conversations with your supplying dealership?

 

[markbrown83]

markbrown83 - If you're happy to share, be good to hear if you've made any progress in conversations with your supplying dealership?

I sent an email yesterday - no reply. But it is a Monday morning** I suppose.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a reply today though...

** afternoon

 

[RockinNRollin]

05/12/23
Note the soggy tag

View attachment 119395

Can you elaborate on the leaks, i.e. where they came from? E.g. seams, zips, base of the bellows etc..?

 

[Maxi_Cali]

Can you elaborate on the leaks, i.e. where they came from? E.g. seams, zips, base of the bellows etc..?

The lower edge of both of the horizontal rectangle seams mainly also the corner seams. Photo not from the leaking but just to show what I’m referring to

 

[Corradobrit]

The lower edge of both of the horizontal rectangle seams mainly also the corner seams. Photo not from the leaking but just to show what I’m referring to

View attachment 119475

Pretty standard infiltration pattern then

 

[markbrown83]

markbrown83 - If you're happy to share, be good to hear if you've made any progress in conversations with your supplying dealership?

Didn’t hear anything today.

 

[stationmaster]

Didn’t hear anything today.

I imagine this is all a bit of a worry for you. Given that the van is pretty much central to your life change plans.

Like me, i guess you'd thought 2024 would see the bellows issue pretty much resolved - shame it is still dragging on.

Hopefully you'll have some positive reassurance from the dealer soon.

 

[markbrown83]

I imagine this is all a bit of a worry for you. Given that the van is pretty much central to your life change plans.

Like me, i guess you'd thought 2024 would see the bellows issue pretty much resolved - shame it is still dragging on.

Hopefully you'll have some positive reassurance from the dealer soon.

Exactly that. Especially as it is a major part of the van that requires a rather major repair to replace it.

The issue is it's not the dealers fault plus they can only pass on what Volkswagen tells them. I just don't trust the latter given people taking delivery of the 2024 builds are also having leaking issues.

 

[Capt_Stanley]

I have just managed to get this from our dealer ( vehicle not had pre delivery check yet). If I’d received this information early last week I would have been really pleased however reading some of the latest concerns I’m not sure what to think!

 

[stationmaster]

Exactly that. Especially as it is a major part of the van that requires a rather major repair to replace it.

The issue is it's not the dealers fault plus they can only pass on what Volkswagen tells them. I just don't trust the latter given people taking delivery of the 2024 builds are also having leaking issues.

I agree. It is not the fault of the dealerships (although some of them maybe worsening things).

Whilst things look to be improving, it looks like certainty that all is good may be a few months away. Not ideal.

 

[stationmaster]

I have just managed to get this from our dealer ( vehicle not had pre delivery check yet). If I’d received this information early last week I would have been really pleased however reading some of the latest concerns I’m not sure what to think!

View attachment 119479

It's a step in the right direction

 

[bullibuskombi]

to answer that,i have T6 single skin bellows. i have just been in a very very wet lake district for 8 days with the roof up. packed the roof away wet to move sites and when reopened had zero water ingress anywhere in the van or bed. i have had a wet quilt before though due to it touching the sides and wicking water through in a storm. rain should not be an issue in a campervan,as others have said,converters roofs are generally ok too,and so are tents

Does anyone have photos of the 4S do we can see what has changed?

 

[markbrown83]

I have just managed to get this from our dealer ( vehicle not had pre delivery check yet). If I’d received this information early last week I would have been really pleased however reading some of the latest concerns I’m not sure what to think!

View attachment 119479

Has the dealership given you any more info as to how these are “fixed”?

 

[Capt_Stanley]

Has the dealership given you any more info as to how these are “fixed”?

No information on the fix other than they have had no recent customers coming back with leaking bellows? Is it too early?
I’m only 11 days away from collecting ours and my heads already spinning ‍

 

[stationmaster]

Has the dealership given you any more info as to how these are “fixed”?

My comment on this question:

It appears that any assessment of what the "fix" might be, may well be little more than a subjective opinion/best guess at this stage - as such, i suggest it is of limited benefit.

We need to have confidence that 04S bellows with a certain date are fit for use.

Have we got this confidence?

Having the opinion of an individual within a dealerships as to what may have been done to sort the issue is of limited use right now?

Just my opinion of course

 

[stationmaster]

My comment on this question:

It appears that any assessment of what the "fix" might be, may well be little more than a subjective opinion/best guess at this stage - as such, i suggest it is of limited benefit.

We need to have confidence that 04S bellows with a certain date are fit for use.

Have we got this confidence?

Having the opinion of an individual within a dealerships as to what may have been done to sort the issue is of limited use right now?

Just my opinion of course

Put it another way?

My head is spinning too!

 

[markbrown83]

No information on the fix other than they have had no recent customers coming back with leaking bellows? Is it too early?
I’m only 11 days away from collecting ours and my heads already spinning ‍

It all depends on whether the customer with the replacements have been able to try them out.

I was just hoping they had something a bit more concrete to go on - more direction from VW directly that the issue was fixed and XYZ is what confirms it.

 

[Capt_Stanley]

I can’t understand why VW aren’t saying anything (unless I’ve missed it). The dealership have been excellent and because I have every confidence in them I’ll probably accept my California on 1st March. We have already missed the most of last year and really want to make the most of this one.
We love the California and for that reason we will give it another go, my fingers are crossed for a brighter future.