Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[CaliforniaCylus]

Okay... I have become a reluctant member of the "leaking pop top roof club" .

I tested in light drizzle (1.7mm) for just 3 hours today.

Im an 02/10/23, 03S with an A sticker (Nov 23 delivery).

Leaks on left and right hand side of horizontal seam. I think I understand whats happening. Its quite simply - water hitting the outside window netting, draining down to the bottom seam where it accumulates in a small pool of water (aided by the slight outward tilt of the front face of the bellows). This standing pool of water then works its way through the seam to the inside, where it drips (again aided by the outward tilt of the bellows) onto the inside roof deck.

Emailed the dealer just now. Im in no hurry - doesnt seem like we are even close to a fix yet. So Im gonna try and enjoy the van till there is.

View attachment 119558

I think that's what is supposed to be addressed with the 04S and newer than 9/Nov. The addition of a foam / rubber strip in that seam. This is the only place which has leaked on my last replacement bellows (I'm waiting now for a fourth set). The very original ones leaked everywhere like a sieve.

 

[RockinNRollin]

I do think that my 04S leaky ones are probably more an exception rather than the rule as others have been fine!

They’re going to be replaced while I’m away so I’m happy, I love the van so won’t be sending it back

There plenty of evidence of 04S bellows being waterproof which wasn’t the case with the 03S (with one or two exceptions) which points towards a better picture too.

 

[stationmaster]

I think that's what is supposed to be addressed with the 04S and newer than 9/Nov. The addition of a foam / rubber strip in that seam. This is the only place which has leaked on my last replacement bellows (I'm waiting now for a fourth set). The very original ones leaked everywhere like a sieve.

Fourth set? You must be getting to be an expert in this area And your view would be that you are definitely seeing incremental improvement?

Lets hope number four sees it sorted for you.

 

[stationmaster]

I’m probably worrying about nothing.

I suppose when it's horizontal rain I'd probably opt for putting the poptop down.

It's sensible to have concerns, there is good reason.

 

[Cumbrian Cali]

Our van is in tomorrow at our original dealership, they have assured me they will only replace with 04s after the magic date so fingers crossed..as I said in earlier post's we've been waiting since April last year when we first contacted vw about the leaking bellows...all sides were leaking..even verticle seams!

I know there's been appaling customer service from vw and we lost june (the only month of good weather ) while the van was in the garage, it's also taken alot of patience, but on the flip side we made a temp pop top cover (which we'll probably keeping using as it fits perfectly with the screen cover) and cracked on with some brilliant adventures and the best year with our 2 little ones. So I'm still glad we got it!

I have everything crossed for the next couple of days!!

 

[stationmaster]

Our van is in tomorrow at our original dealership, they have assured me they will only replace either 04s after the magic date so fingers crossed..as I said in earlier post's we've been waiting since April last year when we first contacted vw about the leaking bellows...all sides were leaking..even vertices seams!

I know there's been appaling customer service from vw and we lost june (the only month of good weather ) while the van was in the garage, it's also taken alot of patience, but on the flip side we made a temp pop top cover (which we'll probably keeping using as it fits perfectly with the screen cover) and cracked on with some brilliant adventures and the best year with our 2 little ones. So I'm still glad we got it!

I have everything crossed for the next couple of days!!

Let us know how it goes? We are all hoping it will be good news

 

[bullibuskombi]

Okay... I have become a reluctant member of the "leaking pop top roof club" .

I tested in light drizzle (1.7mm) for just 3 hours today.

Im an 02/10/23, 03S with an A sticker (Nov 23 delivery).

Leaks on left and right hand side of horizontal seam. I think I understand whats happening. Its quite simply - water hitting the outside window netting, draining down to the bottom seam where it accumulates in a small pool of water (aided by the slight outward tilt of the front face of the bellows). This standing pool of water then works its way through the seam to the inside, where it drips (again aided by the outward tilt of the bellows) onto the inside roof deck.

Emailed the dealer just now. Im in no hurry - doesnt seem like we are even close to a fix yet. So Im gonna try and enjoy the van till there is.

View attachment 119558

Exactly what mine is doing. I attached a bin liner to the bungi cord as a emergency cure.

 

[myvanrodney]

… loving the incoming stream of positivity , ..I’m not sweating it, we love our van warts an all and we will be travelling with the leaking roof come rain or shine. I just want to keep the hassle to a minimum, so will keep a sharp eye on experiences here before taking the van in for repair.

.. might be a good excuse to research a reasonably priced wrap thingy

 

[stationmaster]

… loving the incoming stream of positivity , ..I’m not sweating it, we love our van warts an all and we will be travelling with the leaking roof come rain or shine. I just want to keep the hassle to a minimum, so will keep a sharp eye on experiences here before taking the van in for repair.

.. might be a good excuse to research a reasonably priced wrap thingy

Very perceptive observation.

 

[stationmaster]

Very perceptive observation. Balance and objectivity may be better than rose tinted

 

[California T2023]

tested replacment 4S manufactured date 13/10/23 pre the magic 9/11 date bellows today for first time in what I would call light fine rain conditions with very little wind. Guess what they leaked! Also notices that the rain didn’t bead on the outside suggesting that they have not been treated.

rang dealer to get it booked back in for 2nd set. Hope this works as it’s getting a bit tiring now!











View attachment IMG_2944.jpeg

 

[ChrisTravel]

Picking up our Ocean or not......in early March
Well I am normally all in on finding solutions and pragmatism and I understand those without issues are not well represented in forums however I am bemused by all your positivity re Bellowsgate.

 

[stationmaster]

tested replacment 4S manufactured date 10/10/23 pre the magic 9/11 date bellows today for first time in what I would call light fine rain conditions with very little wind. Guess what they leaked! Also notices that the rain didn’t bead on the outside suggesting that they have not been treated.

rang dealer to get it booked back in for 2nd set. Hope this works as it’s getting a bit tiring now!

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Sorry to hear the bad news. If you already have the 04S and they leak? Maybe it is better to wait a while to see if VW bring out a revision on the 04S before booking it in?

 

[stationmaster]

Picking up our Ocean or not......in early March
Well I am normally all in on finding solutions and pragmatism and I understand those without issues are not well represented in forums however I am bemused by all your positivity re Bellowsgate.

Me too. Like you i am a great believer in pragmatism, being solution focused... but, this can lead to delusion. Not good.

 

[California T2023]

Sorry to hear the bad news. If you already have the 04S and they leak? Maybe it is better to wait a while to see if VW bring out a revision on the 04S before booking it in?

Yes maybe that’s an idea but apparently post 9/11 made 4s are improved? Not sure how or what they have changed because no information forthcoming

 

[stationmaster]

Yes maybe that’s an idea but apparently post 9/11 made 4s are improved? Not sure how or what they have changed because no information forthcoming

You maybe right.

From what i read, there seems to be equal good and bad being said about the post 9/11 04S.

Logical view may be that it is too early to judge?

Right now, i am hopeful/open to it being sorted...but wait and see still gets my vote

 

[ChrisTravel]

Sounds like with the warmer but wetter weather we are about to get a flood of leaky bellows reports to me.

 

[stationmaster]

Sounds like with the warmer but wetter weather we are about to get a flood of leaky bellows reports to me.

Certainly a possibility

Still hopeful, but it is too early to know how this will all play out i am thinking.

 

[calicamperchris]

We took delivery of our California at the end of July 2023 and being aware from the forum here and another owner of the leaking bellows issue, we tested them out at the first opportunity when it rained to discover that our vehicle leaked as described by many other owners on here.

Fast forward to now, we finally had the new bellows version fitted 2 weeks ago (04S - 22/11/23 manufacturing date). The first opportunity to test them was on Saturday and with trepidation, we put the roof up in the late afternoon as the rain started. From our experience with the original 03S version, I was going out to the Cali every 30 mins to check on the situation and much to our relief, no water was getting inside despite the steady rain (light winds). We decided to leave the roof up overnight in the rain to give it a proper soaking and the following morning, there was still no sign of any water having got inside. The roof was left up to allow the bellows to dry before closing in the evening.

Yesterday (Wednesday), I took the opportunity to put the roof up again in the rain (more wind as well) during the morning knowing I would have to close it while the bellows were wet to drive to work this afternoon and see what would happen. I was worried water from the outside skin would soak through onto the inner layer whilst closed. On arriving home this evening, I opened the roof and rubbed my hand on the inside layer and wasn’t sure if the bellows were cold or whether they were very slightly damp. After wiping the inside skin over with some tissues, I was relieved to find that the tissues remained intact and didn’t show signs of having encountered any moisture. Hopefully this means the end of this sorry saga for us (and for those awaiting new 04S bellows to be fitted) and we can get out and enjoy the Cali as we intended when we ordered.

But, there is still a nagging doubt as to whether this is a genuine fix. What has actually changed with this design compared to the previous version nobody seems to know or say. Is it a design change, a new fabric or has the outer layer been treated to make it waterproof which would become less effective with use? Time will tell. It is a pity that VW won’t be open and honest about it, but that is how most large corporations seem to operate these days. They are happy to take our money, but are not accountable when things go wrong. They talk about customer satisfaction being important but don’t follow it up with their actions. VW are not alone in this from our experience.

The 6 months in between reporting the problem and getting the new bellows fitted have been frustrating and there have been many occasions where we came very close to giving up and walking away, even regretting not rejecting it within the 30 days back in August after finding we had the problem. We stuck with it because the Cali is the best compromise and fit for us having looked at many campervans and van conversions during our search. Hopefully we will be glad we did….

 

[markbrown83]

We took delivery of our California at the end of July 2023 and being aware from the forum here and another owner of the leaking bellows issue, we tested them out at the first opportunity when it rained to discover that our vehicle leaked as described by many other owners on here.

Fast forward to now, we finally had the new bellows version fitted 2 weeks ago (04S - 22/11/23 manufacturing date). The first opportunity to test them was on Saturday and with trepidation, we put the roof up in the late afternoon as the rain started. From our experience with the original 03S version, I was going out to the Cali every 30 mins to check on the situation and much to our relief, no water was getting inside despite the steady rain (light winds). We decided to leave the roof up overnight in the rain to give it a proper soaking and the following morning, there was still no sign of any water having got inside. The roof was left up to allow the bellows to dry before closing in the evening.

Yesterday (Wednesday), I took the opportunity to put the roof up again in the rain (more wind as well) during the morning knowing I would have to close it while the bellows were wet to drive to work this afternoon and see what would happen. I was worried water from the outside skin would soak through onto the inner layer whilst closed. On arriving home this evening, I opened the roof and rubbed my hand on the inside layer and wasn’t sure if the bellows were cold or whether they were very slightly damp. After wiping the inside skin over with some tissues, I was relieved to find that the tissues remained intact and didn’t show signs of having encountered any moisture. Hopefully this means the end of this sorry saga for us (and for those awaiting new 04S bellows to be fitted) and we can get out and enjoy the Cali as we intended when we ordered.

But, there is still a nagging doubt as to whether this is a genuine fix. What has actually changed with this design compared to the previous version nobody seems to know or say. Is it a design change, a new fabric or has the outer layer been treated to make it waterproof which would become less effective with use? Time will tell. It is a pity that VW won’t be open and honest about it, but that is how most large corporations seem to operate these days. They are happy to take our money, but are not accountable when things go wrong. They talk about customer satisfaction being important but don’t follow it up with their actions. VW are not alone in this from our experience.

The 6 months in between reporting the problem and getting the new bellows fitted have been frustrating and there have been many occasions where we came very close to giving up and walking away, even regretting not rejecting it within the 30 days back in August after finding we had the problem. We stuck with it because the Cali is the best compromise and fit for us having looked at many campervans and van conversions during our search. Hopefully we will be glad we did….

View attachment 119570

That’s great news. It sounds like we are starting to come out the other end of this. Granted I’ve only been on this journey since December and many have been on it for much longer.

I’m actually more excited than nervous to collect our van now.

 

[RockinNRollin]

I think we need to have a degree of pragmatism too; I don't expect things to get wet, but likewise I don't think a bit of condensation on the inside of the fabric is unrealistic either. There are limits to the physics of what is possible to achieve with what is still effectively a tent. As long as the bellows provides a dry and comfortable sleeping area, and one that if you drop the bellows wet doesn't result in a wet bed, I would say it's meeting requirements.

 

[ChrisTravel]

We took delivery of our California at the end of July 2023 and being aware from the forum here and another owner of the leaking bellows issue, we tested them out at the first opportunity when it rained to discover that our vehicle leaked as described by many other owners on here.

Fast forward to now, we finally had the new bellows version fitted 2 weeks ago (04S - 22/11/23 manufacturing date). The first opportunity to test them was on Saturday and with trepidation, we put the roof up in the late afternoon as the rain started. From our experience with the original 03S version, I was going out to the Cali every 30 mins to check on the situation and much to our relief, no water was getting inside despite the steady rain (light winds). We decided to leave the roof up overnight in the rain to give it a proper soaking and the following morning, there was still no sign of any water having got inside. The roof was left up to allow the bellows to dry before closing in the evening.

Yesterday (Wednesday), I took the opportunity to put the roof up again in the rain (more wind as well) during the morning knowing I would have to close it while the bellows were wet to drive to work this afternoon and see what would happen. I was worried water from the outside skin would soak through onto the inner layer whilst closed. On arriving home this evening, I opened the roof and rubbed my hand on the inside layer and wasn’t sure if the bellows were cold or whether they were very slightly damp. After wiping the inside skin over with some tissues, I was relieved to find that the tissues remained intact and didn’t show signs of having encountered any moisture. Hopefully this means the end of this sorry saga for us (and for those awaiting new 04S bellows to be fitted) and we can get out and enjoy the Cali as we intended when we ordered.

But, there is still a nagging doubt as to whether this is a genuine fix. What has actually changed with this design compared to the previous version nobody seems to know or say. Is it a design change, a new fabric or has the outer layer been treated to make it waterproof which would become less effective with use? Time will tell. It is a pity that VW won’t be open and honest about it, but that is how most large corporations seem to operate these days. They are happy to take our money, but are not accountable when things go wrong. They talk about customer satisfaction being important but don’t follow it up with their actions. VW are not alone in this from our experience.

The 6 months in between reporting the problem and getting the new bellows fitted have been frustrating and there have been many occasions where we came very close to giving up and walking away, even regretting not rejecting it within the 30 days back in August after finding we had the problem. We stuck with it because the Cali is the best compromise and fit for us having looked at many campervans and van conversions during our search. Hopefully we will be glad we did….

View attachment 119570

Really appreciate you taking the time to reply and share some good news

 

[Fish111111111.]

Ok guys its finally our turn for the bellows replacement, we have had two previous false starts but the Van is in the dealers this morning. I have asked them to ensure the label is left attached so i can confirm the correct one has been fitted. Very hopeful this will be a one time visit!

 

[Capt_Stanley]

We took delivery of our California at the end of July 2023 and being aware from the forum here and another owner of the leaking bellows issue, we tested them out at the first opportunity when it rained to discover that our vehicle leaked as described by many other owners on here.

Fast forward to now, we finally had the new bellows version fitted 2 weeks ago (04S - 22/11/23 manufacturing date). The first opportunity to test them was on Saturday and with trepidation, we put the roof up in the late afternoon as the rain started. From our experience with the original 03S version, I was going out to the Cali every 30 mins to check on the situation and much to our relief, no water was getting inside despite the steady rain (light winds). We decided to leave the roof up overnight in the rain to give it a proper soaking and the following morning, there was still no sign of any water having got inside. The roof was left up to allow the bellows to dry before closing in the evening.

Yesterday (Wednesday), I took the opportunity to put the roof up again in the rain (more wind as well) during the morning knowing I would have to close it while the bellows were wet to drive to work this afternoon and see what would happen. I was worried water from the outside skin would soak through onto the inner layer whilst closed. On arriving home this evening, I opened the roof and rubbed my hand on the inside layer and wasn’t sure if the bellows were cold or whether they were very slightly damp. After wiping the inside skin over with some tissues, I was relieved to find that the tissues remained intact and didn’t show signs of having encountered any moisture. Hopefully this means the end of this sorry saga for us (and for those awaiting new 04S bellows to be fitted) and we can get out and enjoy the Cali as we intended when we ordered.

But, there is still a nagging doubt as to whether this is a genuine fix. What has actually changed with this design compared to the previous version nobody seems to know or say. Is it a design change, a new fabric or has the outer layer been treated to make it waterproof which would become less effective with use? Time will tell. It is a pity that VW won’t be open and honest about it, but that is how most large corporations seem to operate these days. They are happy to take our money, but are not accountable when things go wrong. They talk about customer satisfaction being important but don’t follow it up with their actions. VW are not alone in this from our experience.

The 6 months in between reporting the problem and getting the new bellows fitted have been frustrating and there have been many occasions where we came very close to giving up and walking away, even regretting not rejecting it within the 30 days back in August after finding we had the problem. We stuck with it because the Cali is the best compromise and fit for us having looked at many campervans and van conversions during our search. Hopefully we will be glad we did….

View attachment 119570

A thank you from me too, we’re collecting our California very soon and this news is very positive. I have had a quick video of our vehicle from the dealer showing our bellows date as 121223

 

[markbrown83]

Ok guys its finally our turn for the bellows replacement, we have had two previous false starts but the Van is in the dealers this morning. I have asked them to ensure the label is left attached so i can confirm the correct one has been fitted. Very hopeful this will be a one time visit!

Fingers crossed. Hope all goes well.