Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[RockinNRollin]

I guess the only remaining query hanging over these leaking 04S bellows is does the theory of repeat wetting still apply to the stitching and perhaps this is a factor?

 

[dnCal]

I was informed on Friday by my local dealer that replacement bellows are on back order

 

[Ch1pbutty]

I was informed on Friday by my local dealer that replacement bellows are on back order

The fabric is most probably taking the long route around the Cape of Good Hope.

 

[stationmaster]

I can’t understand why VW aren’t saying anything (unless I’ve missed it). The dealership have been excellent and because I have every confidence in them I’ll probably accept my California on 1st March. We have already missed the most of last year and really want to make the most of this one.
We love the California and for that reason we will give it another go, my fingers are crossed for a brighter future.

VW will have a public relations agenda...maybe this agenda is best met by silence?

Sounds like you have a good relationship with a great dealership. Makes all the difference

One way forward is to ask what assurances the dealership can offer should you take delivery and later find out there are still issues with the roof. That you do not wish to have the roof of a new van replaced under warranty when it was known prior to delivery that the bellows may still have serious issues.

Having a robust undertaking from the dealership is certainly better than keeping your fingers crossed

This is a difficult situation for a responsible and honest dealership to deal with, and it's not of their making. There is a very strong case for VW to financially support the dealerships, in their support of the customers.

My hunch is that this matter is almost sorted. But for the time being i think it is very reasonable to request assurances from your dealership

 

[markbrown83]

I sent an email yesterday - no reply. But it is a Monday morning** I suppose.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a reply today though...

** afternoon

Still no response.

 

[stationmaster]

Still no response.

Sorry to hear that.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Still no response.

Who’s the dealer?

 

[markbrown83]

Who’s the dealer?

Manchester. Next to Trafford centre.

They are maybe just waiting on the van to come in.

 

[Sheffield10]

VW will have a public relations agenda...maybe this agenda is best met by silence?

Sounds like you have a good relationship with a great dealership. Makes all the difference

One way forward is to ask what assurances the dealership can offer should you take delivery and later find out there are still issues with the roof. That you do not wish to have the roof of a new van replaced under warranty when it was known prior to delivery that the bellows may still have serious issues.

Having a robust undertaking from the dealership is certainly better than keeping your fingers crossed

This is a difficult situation for a responsible and honest dealership to deal with, and it's not of their making. There is a very strong case for VW to financially support the dealerships, in their support of the customers.

My hunch is that this matter is almost sorted. But for the time being i think it is very reasonable to request assurances from your dealership

VW is a very large corporation who are in financial difficulty - making insufficient profit to keep their shareholders happy, dieselgate has cost them many billions ($33bn+), their EV sales are sluggish, and they have announced plans to accelerate the time it takes to release new volume models to market whilst cutting the cost of development and materials. In the quiet backwater of their campervan product line, it is hard to see them splashing any more time, effort or cash than is absolutely necessary to limit the noise of a small number of customers (vs. the volume of vehicles they sell), who are complaining about leaky bellows. In my view, the last 6 months of denial, silence, delayed response, contradictory information about a remedy illustrates how little this really matters to VW AG. They've had numerous opportunities to communicate clearly and credibly with their dealers and customers but they haven't.

I agree that the dealers, and even VW UK, are stuck between a rock and a hard place. This fault is not of their making, but UK consumer law makes it their problem. Dealers who shift a lot of Cali's will feel that exposure more, and even though the dealers losses associated with taking back a rejected van (or warranty work) are underwritten by VW UK, the dealers don't want their capital tied up in a fleet of unsold campervans, so they are also motivated to downplay the issue and say (hope) that VW AG are working on an effective remedy. We all hope that the 04S bellows of the right vintage resolve the issue, but until more owners share their real world experience, we won't know and nor will the dealers. After 6 months of ownership the problem is basically yours as you move beyond the main time limits of consumer protection. My advice is that if it matters to you (and your use case), make sure your dealer understands this from the outset.

Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now!

 

[Andy C Berks.]

Seem to be playing a game with my dealer - 3 months ago they fitted a replacement set of 03S despite assuring me they had a set of 04S for me.

I was booked in this week for a further replacement - this time assuring me they had 04S, but after several attempts at getting the date from them they eventually say 20th October. That was about 3 weeks ago they confirmed that date, so possibly ample time to have got a further set in. But have not been able to confirm to me if they actually have done that nor what the date on the label now says. So I refused to bring it in on Monday - emailed them several times to advise this too.

Of course they phone me to enquire where the van is. I now have two separate people at the dealers telling me they definitely have 04S bellows in dated after the 9th November. The same question to both of them, and several times each too, asking so what date does the label say. Various responses including “they are definitely the latest ones”, “VW confirm they are the correct ones” and so on but each time I push back and say just tell me the date on the label it all goes quiet again. I don’t think they even know I am talking to their colleague and still I get the same none answer from each. They have even failed to tell Adrian of VWCS what date the label says. I haven’t even made it really difficult yet and asked if there is a little sticker with the letter A on the label!
So will have another try for a photo of the label tomorrow. But why do they keep lying, must be the cheque from VW for a continuous cycle of warranty claims, as that’s the only explanation at this point.

 

[RockinNRollin]

After 6 months of ownership the problem is basically yours as you move beyond the main time limits of consumer protection.

Interestingly when I had a discussion with the Motor Ombudsman, they said the consumer law timescales are about when you raised the issue, not necessarily how long it takes to get it resolved (or not, as the case may be).

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Interestingly when I had a discussion with the Motor Ombudsman, they said the consumer law timescales are about when you raised the issue, not necessarily how long it takes to get it resolved (or not, as the case may be).

Yes this was my understanding too. The dealer can’t stall to get you past the 6 month line.

 

[markbrown83]

I chased up my dealer this morning and he thought he had replied. He replied with the following:

"In regards the bellows I can’t give you anymore than brand support have given me, not great info I know but I think VW are just going to cross the bridge when they get to it with individual cases."

Which isn't a surprise really as it's out their hands.

I suppose the only hope I have as it was a February built you'd hope they'd be fitting them with issue free bellows.

I've asked for a video / photo of the tag when the van arrives with them in the next 7 days.

Getting closer and closer.... hopefully not to disappointment.

 

[stationmaster]

I chased up my dealer this morning and he thought he had replied. He replied with the following:

"In regards the bellows I can’t give you anymore than brand support have given me, not great info I know but I think VW are just going to cross the bridge when they get to it with individual cases."

Which isn't a surprise really as it's out their hands.

I suppose the only hope I have as it was a February built you'd hope they'd be fitting them with issue free bellows.

I've asked for a video / photo of the tag when the van arrives with them in the next 7 days.

Getting closer and closer.... hopefully not to disappointment.

Thanks for the update.

 

[Capt_Stanley]

VW will have a public relations agenda...maybe this agenda is best met by silence?

Sounds like you have a good relationship with a great dealership. Makes all the difference

One way forward is to ask what assurances the dealership can offer should you take delivery and later find out there are still issues with the roof. That you do not wish to have the roof of a new van replaced under warranty when it was known prior to delivery that the bellows may still have serious issues.

Having a robust undertaking from the dealership is certainly better than keeping your fingers crossed

This is a difficult situation for a responsible and honest dealership to deal with, and it's not of their making. There is a very strong case for VW to financially support the dealerships, in their support of the customers.

My hunch is that this matter is almost sorted. But for the time being i think it is very reasonable to request assurances from your dealership

Thanks stationmaster for the advice I’ve sent an email this morning and await their response

 

[stationmaster]

Thanks stationmaster for the advice I’ve sent an email this morning and await their response

If no issues with your van post delivery, all is good.

A pre-delivery undertaking from your dealership simply makes explicit a reasonable course of action for dealing with issues should they arise.

In reality there is already a 30 day right to reject enshrined in UK consumer law, so i guess you'll be looking to making this explicit, and for a longer period - say 6 months?

Good for both your peace of mind and good for the dealership too. You both know where you stand.

Bit like a prenuptial agreement

 

[markbrown83]

Thanks stationmaster for the advice I’ve sent an email this morning and await their response

I think I'll be doing similar.

Once they have confirmed the version of bellows that have been installed, I will be saying if they leak I will reject the vehicle and hand it back. Especially considering the dealer was told by brand (still not sure who / what this is - presumably VW direct) that the issue will be fixed on our van.

Better that the customer and dealer know where each other stand.

I have no patience to go through getting the roof replaced etc if there is a leak it should be a non issue from factory.

 

[stationmaster]

I think I'll be doing similar.

Once they have confirmed the version of bellows that have been installed, I will be saying if they leak I will reject the vehicle and hand it back. Especially considering the dealer was told by brand (still not sure who / what this is - presumably VW direct) that the issue will be fixed on our van.

Better that the customer and dealer know where each other stand.

I have no patience to go through getting the roof replaced etc if there is a leak it should be a non issue from factory.

On balance, i think that the latest vans coming out of the factory are probably fine...a little too early to know for certain.

A good dealership will fully support their customers. In this instance it is reasonable that you are given a solid undertaking: should there be an issue with the vehicle, the dealership will refund all monies and collect the vehicle. I think this should be over and above the 30 days set out in consumer law.

As we have agreed, the dealerships are not at fault, full responsibility sits with VW who should support the dealerships in their support of customers.

A California is a complicated vehicle...i think we would all agree: the support of a good dealership is a "must have".

It is becoming very clear which dealerships are the good ones. They deserve our full recognition and i am sure they will benefit from increased sales

 

[Barry Chuckle]

My Nov 23 built 4S bellows have been absolutely fine on my 3 or 4 nights out camping in the rain. But it'll all come down to where the rain is actually blown on the fabric I guess.

 

[markbrown83]

My Nov 23 built 4S bellows have been absolutely fine on my 3 or 4 nights out camping in the rain. But it'll all come down to where the rain is actually blown on the fabric I guess.

I’m probably worrying about nothing.

I suppose when it's horizontal rain I'd probably opt for putting the poptop down.

 

[myvanrodney]

Okay... I have become a reluctant member of the "leaking pop top roof club" .

I tested in light drizzle (1.7mm) for just 3 hours today.

Im an 02/10/23, 03S with an A sticker (Nov 23 delivery).

Leaks on left and right hand side of horizontal seam. I think I understand whats happening. Its quite simply - water hitting the outside window netting, draining down to the bottom seam where it accumulates in a small pool of water (aided by the slight outward tilt of the front face of the bellows). This standing pool of water then works its way through the seam to the inside, where it drips (again aided by the outward tilt of the bellows) onto the inside roof deck.

Emailed the dealer just now. Im in no hurry - doesnt seem like we are even close to a fix yet. So Im gonna try and enjoy the van till there is.

 

[RockinNRollin]

I wouldn't say "doesn't seem like we are even close to a fix yet"; there's been quite a journey and while it's fair to say there has been a lot of fog, there is also demonstrable progress. Are we "there" yet? Not sure, but we're a LOT closer than we were last summer.

 

[markbrown83]

I wouldn't say "doesn't seem like we are even close to a fix yet"; there's been quite a journey and while it's fair to say there has been a lot of fog, there is also demonstrable progress. Are we "there" yet? Not sure, but we're a LOT closer than we were last summer.

We just need a bit more confirmation from new owners or 04S refits that they aren’t seeing any leaks….

 

[ChrisTravel]

I wouldn't say "doesn't seem like we are even close to a fix yet"; there's been quite a journey and while it's fair to say there has been a lot of fog, there is also demonstrable progress. Are we "there" yet? Not sure, but we're a LOT closer than we were last summer.

 

[Maxi_Cali]

I do think that my 04S leaky ones are probably more an exception rather than the rule as others have been fine!

They’re going to be replaced while I’m away so I’m happy, I love the van so won’t be sending it back