Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[RockinNRollin]

Help people get it fixed, compensate, stop selling California’s with issues, recall, stop messing me around etc

I think to be fair they are helping getting people get it fixed, if a vehicle is sold with defective bellows it’ll get sorted under warranty and recalls are only ever done for safety reasons.

I would be the first to say that VW as a collective have been a bit hopeless, but in my case at least both my dealer and Adrian at EO seem to be doing their best to resolve issues. Yes it’s been a horrendously frustrating time for those of us affected, but I for one just want it resolved (and I think it has) as we really like our vehicle.

Now if we were still all with leaking 03S bellows and the VW stance was “that’s normal” then I would be more vocal but this latest iteration of the 04S seems to be performing.

 

[Corradobrit]

Now if we were still all with leaking 03S bellows and the VW stance was “that’s normal” then I would be more vocal but this latest iteration of the 04S seems to be performing.

To be fair some dealers are still spouting this line...... over 14 months later

 

[Ch1pbutty]

To be fair some dealers are still spouting this line...... over 14 months later

Puts the dealer one step closer to the end of the warranty period. Its a game.

 

[Paul Mckay 1965]

I think to be fair they are helping getting people get it fixed, if a vehicle is sold with defective bellows it’ll get sorted under warranty and recalls are only ever done for safety reasons.

I would be the first to say that VW as a collective have been a bit hopeless, but in my case at least both my dealer and Adrian at EO seem to be doing their best to resolve issues. Yes it’s been a horrendously frustrating time for those of us affected, but I for one just want it resolved (and I think it has) as we really like our vehicle.

Now if we were still all with leaking 03S bellows and the VW stance was “that’s normal” then I would be more vocal but this latest iteration of the 04S seems to be performing.

Six months still not resolved. 94 pages of issues alone on this site. People have been waiting months , had multiple fixes that don’t work.
The California’s should have been tested before they left the factory and never been sold. They have failed to comply with sale legislation.
VW are delaying this and peoples warranty is running out. The stress it’s caused some people is heartbreaking to read.
Personally I think it’s appalling

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Six months still not resolved. 94 pages of issues alone on this site. People have been waiting months , had multiple fixes that don’t work.
The California’s should have been tested before they left the factory and never been sold. They have failed to comply with sale legislation.
VW are delaying this and peoples warranty is running out. The stress it’s caused some people is heartbreaking to read.
Personally I think it’s appalling

Yes I agree it’s an appalling situation however…. They would’ve been tested before they left the factory, but not with the right conditions obviously. The earliest vans affected are very late 2022 so nobody’s warranty is running out. Minimum 18 months left for most so plenty of time since this issue only really became obvious in mid-2023 so it’s been a pretty quick reaction so far. I haven’t heard anyone mention a dealer or VW who’s failed to comply with sales legislation. Anybody who wanted to reject their vehicle has done so with no issues. It’s the law and I’m not aware of any law breaking. Personally we could have waited months, but instead decided to exercise our right to reject so we weren’t left with a van we were paying for but couldn’t use with no fix in sight. All other owners can do this too so nobody is forcing you to keep the van. I really don’t see the issue anymore. First reports of the leaking bellows were around June/July 23 and a resolution came from November 23. That’s not a bad turnaround for a company the size of VW. Could they have done more to look after their customers though? Yes definitely. But our interaction has been with the dealer, not directly with VW and we can’t fault them in this really - Breeze have looked after us extremely well.

 

[Paul Mckay 1965]

Yes I agree it’s an appalling situation however…. They would’ve been tested before they left the factory, but not with the right conditions obviously. The earliest vans affected are very late 2022 so nobody’s warranty is running out. Minimum 18 months left for most so plenty of time since this issue only really became obvious in mid-2023 so it’s been a pretty quick reaction so far. I haven’t heard anyone mention a dealer or VW who’s failed to comply with sales legislation. Anybody who wanted to reject their vehicle has done so with no issues. It’s the law and I’m not aware of any law breaking. Personally
we could have waited months, but instead decided to exercise our right to reject so we weren’t left with a van we were paying for but couldn’t use with no fix in sight. All other owners can do this too so nobody is forcing you to keep the van. I really don’t see the issue anymore. First reports of the leaking bellows were around June/July 23 and a resolution came from November 23. That’s not a bad turnaround for a company the size of VW. Could they have done more to look after their customers though? Yes definitely. But our interaction has been with the dealer, not directly with VW and we can’t fault them in this really - Breeze have looked after us extremely well.

Then my experience is very different and my understanding of legislation is different as well

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Then my experience is very different and my understanding of legislation is different as well

Legislation is black and white but yes it does sound like experiences have been highly variable based on who the dealer is.

 

[Paolo69]

Ordered late december(Italy), arrived these day, hope bellow with this label is ok

 

[Paolo69]

Ordered late december(Italy), arrived these day, hope bellow with this label is ok

 

[markbrown83]

Ordered late december(Italy), arrived these day, hope bellow with this label is ok

View attachment 119965

Should be good.

 

[Corradobrit]

Ordered late december(Italy), arrived these day, hope bellow with this label is ok

View attachment 119965

If its not we're in deep trouble. I'm sure its fine. Looking forward to hearing all the positive tests.....

 

[Kenisted]

I think to be fair they are helping getting people get it fixed, if a vehicle is sold with defective bellows it’ll get sorted under warranty and recalls are only ever done for safety reasons.

I would be the first to say that VW as a collective have been a bit hopeless, but in my case at least both my dealer and Adrian at EO seem to be doing their best to resolve issues. Yes it’s been a horrendously frustrating time for those of us affected, but I for one just want it resolved (and I think it has) as we really like our vehicle.

Now if we were still all with leaking 03S bellows and the VW stance was “that’s normal” then I would be more vocal but this latest iteration of the 04S seems to be performing.

I think if VW were trying to help people get things fixed I wouldn’t be waiting for my forth set to be fitted

 

[Andy C Berks.]

Then my experience is very different and my understanding of legislation is different as well

Are you speaking with Adrian at VW Exec. Office ? If not then make sure you get on his list as he will phone you weekly to see what progress you have had with your dealer and he will chase them up if necessary. The new variant of the bellows seems to (finally) be coming through in a steady stream, and assuming it’s the 03S variant that you have currently on your van then Adrian should be able to just tell the dealer to book you in and order a replacement without needing to prove they leak, as he acknowledges that the part is universally accepted as “failed”.
Personally I wouldn’t bother with the ombudsman any longer, unless you have other issues, as that may just delay things for you as VW may do what all corporates do when their regulator is engaged, and that’s to put you in a process so that it’s handled centrally to make sure that the right bureaucracy is follows.

of course we don’t know for sure that 04S is the fix we crave, but the early signs are encouraging. Looking at this thread in the last few weeks, the new vans do all seem to be being supplied with the latest bellows, and there is now suddenly a rash of replacements bearing the correct date being fitted, mine included last week.
So whilst it’s been frustrating, get it booked in to your dealer (or ask others on here to recommend one depending on where you are based) then let Adrian know and fingers crossed we can all get fixed just in the nick of time for the start of the main season.

 

[stationmaster]

Are you speaking with Adrian at VW Exec. Office ? If not then make sure you get on his list as he will phone you weekly to see what progress you have had with your dealer and he will chase them up if necessary. The new variant of the bellows seems to (finally) be coming through in a steady stream, and assuming it’s the 03S variant that you have currently on your van then Adrian should be able to just tell the dealer to book you in and order a replacement without needing to prove they leak, as he acknowledges that the part is universally accepted as “failed”.
Personally I wouldn’t bother with the ombudsman any longer, unless you have other issues, as that may just delay things for you as VW may do what all corporates do when their regulator is engaged, and that’s to put you in a process so that it’s handled centrally to make sure that the right bureaucracy is follows.

of course we don’t know for sure that 04S is the fix we crave, but the early signs are encouraging. Looking at this thread in the last few weeks, the new vans do all seem to be being supplied with the latest bellows, and there is now suddenly a rash of replacements bearing the correct date being fitted, mine included last week.
So whilst it’s been frustrating, get it booked in to your dealer (or ask others on here to recommend one depending on where you are based) then let Adrian know and fingers crossed we can all get fixed just in the nick of time for the start of the main season.

Looks to be sound advice.

It has been a bit of a journey, for some a very difficult one. However, it looks like with a fair wind the end may be in sight.

What have we learned? Have a good dealership on your side. Wait a while to have a warranty replacement bellows/part fitted as the early ones may not have it sorted. If it fits with your circumstances, exercise your consumer rights whilst keeping your dealership onside....as in many cases they are your friend and did not cause the issue.

 

[Paul Mckay 1965]

Are you speaking with Adrian at VW Exec. Office ? If not then make sure you get on his list as he will phone you weekly to see what progress you have had with your dealer and he will chase them up if necessary. The new variant of the bellows seems to (finally) be coming through in a steady stream, and assuming it’s the 03S variant that you have currently on your van then Adrian should be able to just tell the dealer to book you in and order a replacement without needing to prove they leak, as he acknowledges that the part is universally accepted as “failed”.
Personally I wouldn’t bother with the ombudsman any longer, unless you have other issues, as that may just delay things for you as VW may do what all corporates do when their regulator is engaged, and that’s to put you in a process so that it’s handled centrally to make sure that the right bureaucracy is follows.

of course we don’t know for sure that 04S is the fix we crave, but the early signs are encouraging. Looking at this thread in the last few weeks, the new vans do all seem to be being supplied with the latest bellows, and there is now suddenly a rash of replacements bearing the correct date being fitted, mine included last week.
So whilst it’s been frustrating, get it booked in to your dealer (or ask others on here to recommend one depending on where you are based) then let Adrian know and fingers crossed we can all get fixed just in the nick of time for the start of the main season.

I have been in regular contact with Adrian but I’m finding updates and communication very hit and miss

 

[Paul1]

I have been in regular contact with Adrian but I’m finding updates and communication very hit and miss

Apologies if this has been asked before can anyone advise best way to contact Adrian at VW is it through customercare ?

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

Apologies if this has been asked before can anyone advise best way to contact Adrian at VW is it through customercare ?

You could try sending an email to executive.office@vwcv.co.uk FAO Adrian Burns. See what you get back.

I initially sent an email to customercare@vwcv.co.uk back in August last year and explained the leaking problem. They replied and I have had several people dealing with it before Adrian took over.

 

[From tent to van]

You could just call 0800 783 4909 and ask for Adrian. He is the only Adrian. He doesn’t work Fridays.

 

[P600BOO]

Some people think VW can just click their fingers and the problem can be solved overnight.
Lots of work needed to find why some ate leaking and others are not.
They need to investigate.
The fibre
Weaving
Cloth dying and finishing
Waterproof chemicals
Thread being used
Stitching / machines being used to sew / thread tension.
Design of pop top panels.
Opening and closing mechanisms.
And finaly Miss use by customers.
Yesterday I was in Exmouth and I saw 3 vans with pop tops up in 40 to 50mph winds and it was slinging it down.
1 van had tried to close his top in atrocious conditions and some of his pop top was trapped outside of his roof.
I have also seen 3 vans being driven with roofs open in the last 12 months on my travels.
Are VW responsible if their roofs leaked???

 

[Paul1]

Some people think VW can just click their fingers and the problem can be solved overnight.
Lots of work needed to find why some ate leaking and others are not.
They need to investigate.
The fibre
Weaving
Cloth dying and finishing
Waterproof chemicals
Thread being used
Stitching / machines being used to sew / thread tension.
Design of pop top panels.
Opening and closing mechanisms.
And finaly Miss use by customers.
Yesterday I was in Exmouth and I saw 3 vans with pop tops up in 40 to 50mph winds and it was slinging it down.
1 van had tried to close his top in atrocious conditions and some of his pop top was trapped outside of his roof.
I have also seen 3 vans being driven with roofs open in the last 12 months on my travels.
Are VW responsible if their roofs leaked???

Maybe, but I’m not one of them. I use my Cali with the utmost care some would say over the top.

 

[bullibuskombi]

Agreed its complex,but, that's what development testing is for. The issue should have not reached the customer.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Agreed its complex,but, that's what development testing is for. The issue should have not reached the customer.

Couldn’t agree more. But it did and mistakes do happen. To my mind making this mistake isn’t so much the issue, it’s how it’s dealt with afterwards. They’ll feel the pain of this mistake as it’s costing them a lot to replace everyone’s bellows.

 

[RockinNRollin]

I think the problem (as many of us have discovered) is even the "leakiest" bellows don't leak in all conditions. It requires certain conditions for the construction (whatever the problem is, material, sealing, stitching etc.) to fail and let water through and clearly product testing didn't replicate those conditions. Likewise, dealer testing didn't always do so either. With my leaky bellows they were fine in some torrential downpours, then let water in during relatively light rain. I can imagine someone (perhaps understandably) thinking firing high pressure water at the bellows must represent worst case scenario, i.e. if it doesn't fail now it never will, but clearly that's not the case.

There are reasons VW moved away from the 02S bellows and I don't think it's just to improve the ambience inside - I don't think that was ever a selling issue. It's most likely a supply chain issue that forced a redesign either due to manufacturer or materials (or both) becoming unavailable. Where it all went pear shaped is the lack of transparency over what's going on in Germany and the VW supply chain vs what VW in the UK know about it. That's where I've got the issue.

 

[markbrown83]

Couldn’t agree more. But it did and mistakes do happen. To my mind making this mistake isn’t so much the issue, it’s how it’s dealt with afterwards. They’ll feel the pain of this mistake as it’s costing them a lot to replace everyone’s bellows.

Especially when they are replacing them multiple time for the same van.

 

[JuanVecino2023]

I think the problem (as many of us have discovered) is even the "leakiest" bellows don't leak in all conditions. It requires certain conditions for the construction (whatever the problem is, material, sealing, stitching etc.) to fail and let water through and clearly product testing didn't replicate those conditions. Likewise, dealer testing didn't always do so either. With my leaky bellows they were fine in some torrential downpours, then let water in during relatively light rain. I can imagine someone (perhaps understandably) thinking firing high pressure water at the bellows must represent worst case scenario, i.e. if it doesn't fail now it never will, but clearly that's not the case.

There are reasons VW moved away from the 02S bellows and I don't think it's just to improve the ambience inside - I don't think that was ever a selling issue. It's most likely a supply chain issue that forced a redesign either due to manufacturer or materials (or both) becoming unavailable. Where it all went pear shaped is the lack of transparency over what's going on in Germany and the VW supply chain vs what VW in the UK know about it. That's where I've got the issue.

Breeze suggested it was released to mitigate the undesired disco ambience of the coloured bellows.