Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Corradobrit]

I would be tempted to dab a little sealant in that area.

 

[bullibuskombi]

Hi,
This seems to the place to ask if the new version of the bellows are being made available to dealers for repairs? Sorry if the information is buried in this very long chain but I could not see it.

Our California was delivered at the end of October and the bellows(03S) leaked within a few days. The dealer promised a repair with the new version of the bellows at the start of January. Unfortunately that did not happen and I cant get any information out of them.

Thanks all
Jim

In my experience the only way to drive action is to speak to Adrisn Burns at VW Commerial executive office.
You could also contact the sales team and dealer principal at your dealership to reject the vehicle as unfit for purpose.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Thank you all, that is really helpful. I will certainly contact Adrian. After four months of this and little use from the van in that time I am beginning to give up hope of a resolution.

I spoke to VW Financial Services today and asked them to look into it before I reject the vehicle. Maybe that will help trigger something. The dealer is Eurovans in Crawley, I am not very happy with them to be honest.

Are you in touch with Dean at Eurovans. I have found him very helpful.

They were waiting for the new product code to kick in in January and had a load on order. When they arrived, and even after installing a couple, VW subsequently told them they weren't correct and to not use that product code any more...

They then had to re-order the old product code and hope that some which arrived were the latest version (04S and newer than 9/Nov/2023). Whenever a delivery arrives, it's apparently hit and miss if any of these actually arrive.

But, fingers crossed, a few are getting through to the branch so if you already have an outstanding warranty claim, I'd give Dean a call and ask him if they've arrived yet.

 

[Ernest Driveaway]

04SA 17/11/23. First time up in anger at the weekend, when I put the Pucer screen on it was getting dark. Sun was out when it come off, couple of holes were obvious in the low sun. This is the worst of a couple, back right hand corner, looking to the back of the bed. Threads broke or not tied off maybe. Not the end of the world , I'll fix that myself.

 

[Betsycalifornia]

I’ve now managed to test our 04S bellows dated 30/10/23 and can confirm no leaks so far…! They’ve not been thoroughly tested but they have been exposed to continuous light to moderate rain for quite a few hours, conditions in which my previously bellows easily leaked, so I’m feeling very hopeful. Disappointingly though these bellows have a rather large stitching hole in the side by the right hand window. Clearly a manufacturing issue where the stitching has been done badly.

View attachment 120117

View attachment 120118

Almost Identical place as my 03S version. Never had any water ingress through there though.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Almost Identical place as my 03S version. Never had any water ingress through there though.

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Great, that’s good to hear. Fingers crossed all sorted then! There’s a noticeable difference between our 04S bellows and our 03S bellows - the dark grey/black strip sitting under the seams. Ours are dated 30/10/23 and seem to be ok so far so perhaps this 09/11/23 date is a misnomer?

 

[Betsycalifornia]

Great, that’s good to hear. Fingers crossed all sorted then! There’s a noticeable difference between our 04S bellows and our 03S bellows - the dark grey/black strip sitting under the seams. Ours are dated 30/10/23 and seem to be ok so far so perhaps this 09/11/23 date is a misnomer?

03/10/2023 for my 03S which are still dry after 3 different rainy days and nights and my water test back in November.

 

[Fish111111111.]

We took delivery of our California at the end of July 2023 and being aware from the forum here and another owner of the leaking bellows issue, we tested them out at the first opportunity when it rained to discover that our vehicle leaked as described by many other owners on here.

Fast forward to now, we finally had the new bellows version fitted 2 weeks ago (04S - 22/11/23 manufacturing date). The first opportunity to test them was on Saturday and with trepidation, we put the roof up in the late afternoon as the rain started. From our experience with the original 03S version, I was going out to the Cali every 30 mins to check on the situation and much to our relief, no water was getting inside despite the steady rain (light winds). We decided to leave the roof up overnight in the rain to give it a proper soaking and the following morning, there was still no sign of any water having got inside. The roof was left up to allow the bellows to dry before closing in the evening.

Yesterday (Wednesday), I took the opportunity to put the roof up again in the rain (more wind as well) during the morning knowing I would have to close it while the bellows were wet to drive to work this afternoon and see what would happen. I was worried water from the outside skin would soak through onto the inner layer whilst closed. On arriving home this evening, I opened the roof and rubbed my hand on the inside layer and wasn’t sure if the bellows were cold or whether they were very slightly damp. After wiping the inside skin over with some tissues, I was relieved to find that the tissues remained intact and didn’t show signs of having encountered any moisture. Hopefully this means the end of this sorry saga for us (and for those awaiting new 04S bellows to be fitted) and we can get out and enjoy the Cali as we intended when we ordered.

But, there is still a nagging doubt as to whether this is a genuine fix. What has actually changed with this design compared to the previous version nobody seems to know or say. Is it a design change, a new fabric or has the outer layer been treated to make it waterproof which would become less effective with use? Time will tell. It is a pity that VW won’t be open and honest about it, but that is how most large corporations seem to operate these days. They are happy to take our money, but are not accountable when things go wrong. They talk about customer satisfaction being important but don’t follow it up with their actions. VW are not alone in this from our experience.

The 6 months in between reporting the problem and getting the new bellows fitted have been frustrating and there have been many occasions where we came very close to giving up and walking away, even regretting not rejecting it within the 30 days back in August after finding we had the problem. We stuck with it because the Cali is the best compromise and fit for us having looked at many campervans and van conversions during our search. Hopefully we will be glad we did….

View attachment 119570

WE have just had the same bellows replaced, same tag as yours but with a 3 written where you have a 6. Unfortunately leaked like a sieve , very disappointed . Awaiting confirmation fro dealer as to exactly when we can get her back in, as a side note when it was light in the morning we could not see the water beading but it had been raining quite hard overnight. so iwoke up with a very wet duvalay .

 

[RockinNRollin]

WE have just had the same bellows replaced, same tag as yours but with a 3 written where you have a 6. Unfortunately leaked like a sieve , very disappointed . Awaiting confirmation fro dealer as to exactly when we can get her back in, as a side note when it was light in the morning we could not see the water beading but it had been raining quite hard overnight. so iwoke up with a very wet duvalay .

Are you saying you have a post 9/11 04S and it leaked like a sieve?!

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

Great, that’s good to hear. Fingers crossed all sorted then! There’s a noticeable difference between our 04S bellows and our 03S bellows - the dark grey/black strip sitting under the seams. Ours are dated 30/10/23 and seem to be ok so far so perhaps this 09/11/23 date is a misnomer?

Mine dated 13 10 23, it lasted around 6 hours before this. So much better than the 03S but 6 hours puts you around bedtime if you pop the top late afternoon!

 

[RockinNRollin]

View attachment 120141
Mine dated 13 10 23, it lasted around 6 hours before this. So much better than the 03S but 6 hours puts you around bedtime if you pop the top late afternoon!

So that’s an 04S? Is that the first time it’s leaked?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

View attachment 120141
Mine dated 13 10 23, it lasted around 6 hours before this. So much better than the 03S but 6 hours puts you around bedtime if you pop the top late afternoon!

Ah FFS. I wonder if they’ll all do this. I was very impressed with how the 04S held up in the first test but definitely need to see more exposure to rain to be sure.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Ah FFS. I wonder if they’ll all do this. I was very impressed with how the 04S held up in the first test but definitely need to see more exposure to rain to be sure.

I think repeat exposure to let the fabric and stitching bed it too. That’s what I’ll be doing and won’t be drawing any early conclusions.

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

So that’s an 04S? Is that the first time it’s leaked?

Yes 04S and first wetting, there have been several October 04S bellows leaking on here. I'm back talking to Adrian to get another set fitted. I've got 2 trips coming up before, so hopefully they will have sorted themselves out by then. Going to use the Cali Wrap on my trips if rain is predicted, don't want the bellows to get saturated and get the bedding wet. We are doing around 8 stops over a 2 weeks trip.

 

[Ged1625]

Picked up my Cali Ocean on Monday. Bellows dated 12/12/23, however noticed this hole when going over the van. Reported to Jamie at VW Breeze in Poole, so just waiting for a response. Not sure if it leaks but hopefully it will get sorted in the next few weeks.

 

[Corradobrit]

Picked up my Cali Ocean on Monday. Bellows dated 12/12/23, however noticed this hole when going over the van. Reported to Jamie at VW Breeze in Poole, so just waiting for a response. Not sure if it leaks but hopefully it will get sorted in the next few weeks.

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See post #2373

 

[Ged1625]

See post #2373

Seems to be a manufacturing defect as other bellows from 03s and 04s have the same hole

 

[markbrown83]

Surely it’s a full pop top replacement to rectify.

Picked up my Cali Ocean on Monday. Bellows dated 12/12/23, however noticed this hole when going over the van. Reported to Jamie at VW Breeze in Poole, so just waiting for a response. Not sure if it leaks but hopefully it will get sorted in the next few weeks.

View attachment 120193

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Surely it’s a full pop top replacement to rectify.

It would have to be. But is that really necessary? If it lets water in then it’s absolutely necessary!

 

[markbrown83]

It would have to be. But is that really necessary? If it lets water in then it’s absolutely necessary!

This is a massive quality control issue.

This should be picked up.

 

[markbrown83]

Picked up my Cali Ocean on Monday. Bellows dated 12/12/23, however noticed this hole when going over the van. Reported to Jamie at VW Breeze in Poole, so just waiting for a response. Not sure if it leaks but hopefully it will get sorted in the next few weeks.

View attachment 120193

Of the people who have picked up their van over the last month, does anyone NOT have these stitching issues on the pop top?

 

[Corradobrit]

Well sounds like people are not experiencing leaks through these slightly enlarged needle holes. If there are no other issues elsewhere and it didn't leak there I would not bother replacing a poptop for a pin prick sized opening. Given the stretchy nature of this new double skinned material I would say that such small holes might appear over time anyway as the thread and seams themselves are not flexible. A dab of flexible seam sealant over the hole would be enough.
I think thanks mostly to VW's response to Bellowsgate, we are becoming hyper critical and that could be counter productive. My 2p

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Well sounds like people are not experiencing leaks through these slightly enlarged needle holes. If there are no other issues elsewhere and it didn't leak there I would not bother replacing a poptop for a pin prick sized opening. Given the stretchy nature of this new double skinned material I would say that such small holes might appear over time anyway as the thread and seams themselves are not flexible. A dab of flexible seam sealant over the hole would be enough.
I think thanks mostly to VW's response to Bellowsgate, we are becoming hyper critical and that could be counter productive. My 2p

As long as it doesn’t leak I can’t say I’m too bothered. My only concern is that through use and continuous tensioning/relaxing it could turn into a tear or get worse and leak. I emailed the dealer to let them know. If it does develop later then at least I made them aware of it at the beginning so they know it’s always been like that from manufacture and it’ll be easier to make a case for it being a manufacturing fault rather than a user error or anything.

 

[Corradobrit]

As long as it doesn’t leak I can’t say I’m too bothered. My only concern is that through use and continuous tensioning/relaxing it could turn into a tear or get worse and leak. I emailed the dealer to let them know. If it does develop later then at least I made them aware of it at the beginning so they know it’s always been like that from manufacture and it’ll be easier to make a case for it being a manufacturing fault rather than a user error or anything.

For sure, record the issue for further reference. But these small micro holes might appear over time regardless. The evidence to date suggests they are not problematic. I doubt a tear will occur due to stretchiness of the fabric unless there was tension in the seam at that point.
Going forward the niggling concern I have is what VW actually dis to make the 04S variant leakproof at time of installation, especially around the zipper seams, which don't appear to have had an application of rubber sealing tape. I hope Fabsil was not involved as that definitely will not be a long term solution.

 

[Julesverne2000]

At this point, I’d say if an annual application of fabsil meant that the bellows were leak proof that’s a workable solution. Of course, that may not be the case.