Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[bullibuskombi]

Yes unfortunately it did leak. Replacement mid April , i think we just got unlucky.

I am coming to the conclusion that this isn't luck, it's gross incompetentence by the VW organisation.

 

[RockinNRollin]

I am coming to the conclusion that this isn't luck, it's gross incompetentence by the VW organisation.

I would both expect and accept occasional product failures; happens with everything (even aircraft). It's how the organisation in question then rectifies it (which generally speaking, is if they confirm it's defective they'll swap it out). It's not practical to 100% test every part, how would you even do that? On a new van it's easier as the bellows are installed ready for use, but even then it's tricky (just look at the number of "it's working, but as yet inconclusive" reports, myself included).

 

[Kev56]

I’ve been following this thread for a while now, when I picked up my Ocean a few weeks ago I had a look at the label and it was as expected 03S. I did a ‘rain test and there was one small drip from the seam. I emailed the the sales team about this and said I would see how it goes, he told me to let him know as this would be covered by the warranty.
I did another test and no apparent leaks.
I’m a bit confused what to do at the moment. Do I
A-Try and get a replacement now.
B-Wait and see how it performs later.
C-Do a heavier test.
Question is do all known 03S bellows leak, or just your luck?
If I book it in and they do a test and it doesn’t leak, do they then dismiss the claim?
Very frustrating for a £70k plus vehicle.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I’ve been following this thread for a while now, when I picked up my Ocean a few weeks ago I had a look at the label and it was as expected 03S. I did a ‘rain test and there was one small drip from the seam. I emailed the the sales team about this and said I would see how it goes, he told me to let him know as this would be covered by the warranty.
I did another test and no apparent leaks.
I’m a bit confused what to do at the moment. Do I
A-Try and get a replacement now.
B-Wait and see how it performs later.
C-Do a heavier test.
Question is do all known 03S bellows leak, or just your luck?
If I book it in and they do a test and it doesn’t leak, do they then dismiss the claim?
Very frustrating for a £70k plus vehicle.

Sounds like they pretty much all do under the right conditions. For us we needed continuous rain for a while and then we got constant leaking that was uncontrollable. It was never immediate as took time to build up in the front window etc.

 

[Capt_Stanley]

I’ve got our roof up this morning (07:45), it’s raining steadily and had one heavy downpour. So far no sign of any water ingress I will be checking the bellows throughout the morning and report back later. FYI my bellows are dated 121223.

Update - just checked my bellows and we so have some drips forming and I noticed water on my rear shelf?

 

[bullibuskombi]

I would both expect and accept occasional product failures; happens with everything (even aircraft). It's how the organisation in question then rectifies it (which generally speaking, is if they confirm it's defective they'll swap it out). It's not practical to 100% test every part, how would you even do that? On a new van it's easier as the bellows are installed ready for use, but even then it's tricky (just look at the number of "it's working, but as yet inconclusive" reports, myself included).

In my experience this part should have been tested sufficiently to detect the porous nature of the new part pre launch. VW's own publicity video for the California even shows a leak test in a water spray booth.
My experience of this organisation is coloured by the time the dealer has had my van to diagnose and fix (5 weeks out of the 55 weeks that Ihave owned it) and that they managed to fit the known faulty 03S as a replacement. The new bellows is also soiled with ingrained dirt on its inside demonstrating a complete absence of care and attention on their part.
VW have stated that I need to go through the whole leak assessment process again to establish that an agreed faulty part that has been withdrawn is actually faulty.
It seems that this organisation has lost its way and frankly I get better customer care from a coffee shop.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Update - just checked my bellows and we so have some drips forming and I noticed water on my rear shelf?

View attachment 120330

View attachment 120331

Water on the rear shelf is likely to be the tailgate seal. They all seem to leak a bit and can be tweaked to seal properly. Our brand new Cali leaked there too.

 

[Betsycalifornia]

I’ve been following this thread for a while now, when I picked up my Ocean a few weeks ago I had a look at the label and it was as expected 03S. I did a ‘rain test and there was one small drip from the seam. I emailed the the sales team about this and said I would see how it goes, he told me to let him know as this would be covered by the warranty.
I did another test and no apparent leaks.
I’m a bit confused what to do at the moment. Do I
A-Try and get a replacement now.
B-Wait and see how it performs later.
C-Do a heavier test.
Question is do all known 03S bellows leak, or just your luck?
If I book it in and they do a test and it doesn’t leak, do they then dismiss the claim?
Very frustrating for a £70k plus vehicle.

Hard hat and fire extinguisher in place Before I say this but my 03S Has not leaked under test and 3 bouts of real world condition’s, at least so far. I wish I knew why as the original one leaked like it was a net curtain. new one does have the black line under the seams though, old one didn’t as far I can recall if that makes any difference.

 

[markbrown83]

we had a showers through the night. Nothing heavy. Outside of pop top had rain droplets on the outside.

No sign of leaking inside. Condensation on the metal that holds the pop top bed in place but that’s expected.

 

[Do we or don't we]

I’ve been following this thread for a while now, when I picked up my Ocean a few weeks ago I had a look at the label and it was as expected 03S. I did a ‘rain test and there was one small drip from the seam. I emailed the the sales team about this and said I would see how it goes, he told me to let him know as this would be covered by the warranty.
I did another test and no apparent leaks.
I’m a bit confused what to do at the moment. Do I
A-Try and get a replacement now.
B-Wait and see how it performs later.
C-Do a heavier test.
Question is do all known 03S bellows leak, or just your luck?
If I book it in and they do a test and it doesn’t leak, do they then dismiss the claim?
Very frustrating for a £70k plus vehicle.

B- wait and see
Carry on enjoying your van you may be one of the lucky ones who never has a problem.
It is my opinion that almost all the 03s leak but only time will tell, there is certainly nothing to be gained by trying to get yours changed at the moment (assuming it continues not to leak) I don't think anyone can be entirely confident that the 04s post 9/11 is the answer, we all hope it is but it's early days yet, so I would bide my time and wait until the dust settles.

 

[myvanrodney]

B- wait and see
Carry on enjoying your van you may be one of the lucky ones who never has a problem.
It is my opinion that almost all the 03s leak but only time will tell, there is certainly nothing to be gained by trying to get yours changed at the moment (assuming it continues not to leak) I don't think anyone can be entirely confident that the 04s post 9/11 is the answer, we all hope it is but it's early days yet, so I would bide my time and wait until the dust settles.

this is our plan

 

[markbrown83]

Does anyone use a bungee cord on these new thicker pop tops?

 

[stationmaster]

Does anyone use a bungee cord on these new thicker pop tops?

Good to hear you have no leaks

I think VW have added stuff to make them fold better (than the single layer bellows of old)...so, not sure do they need a bungee. I am super careful though...lowering it in stages and walking around the van to check all is inside the mechanism and folding as it should. Bungee may even be a negative to the auto folding that VW have built in? Not sure.

 

[Corradobrit]

Most important thing is ensure easy air movement when opening and closing by keeping a door or a couple of windows open. With proper pressure equalization the bellows fold perfectly well without assistance of a bungee. It's the reason for those vertical slats in the bellows.

 

[stationmaster]

Most important thing is ensure easy air movement when opening and closing by keeping a door or a couple of windows open. With proper pressure equalization the bellows fold perfectly well without assistance of a bungee. It's the reason for those vertical slats in the bellows.

Agree. Air movement is key...and watch out for that huge gust of wind that wants to mess it all up!

 

[Corradobrit]

Agree. Air movement is key...and watch out for that huge gust of wind that wants to mess it all up!

Yes and the manual bellows is even trickier as it rises and closes such quicker than the hydraulic version.

 

[markbrown83]

Yup. Had the windows open when closing it. The front bit of the pop top is a bit of a pain when closing the hatch bit.

We also have that net / hammock installed too which makes it tiiiight. Very handy though.

Do you have a topper for the pop top bed? I found it quite hard and woke up sore during the night. We have the comfort mattress too does that fit on it?

 

[stationmaster]

Yup. Had the windows open when closing it. The front bit of the pop top is a bit of a pain when closing the hatch bit.

We also have that net / hammock installed too which makes it tiiiight. Very handy though.

Do you have a topper for the pop top bed? I found it quite hard and woke up sore during the night. We have the comfort mattress too does that fit on it?

...a few have said closing the hatch gets easier with use. I find it ok. But...i have whatever mattress comes with the van as standard and i don't use the net thing.

You have a comfort/luxury mattress version? And your'e going for a topper too? Crazy comfort I guess you'll have to store the topper in the main van when the roof is down?

 

[markbrown83]

...a few have said closing the hatch gets easier with use. I find it ok. But...i have whatever mattress comes with the van as standard and i don't use the net thing.

You have a comfort/luxury mattress version? And your'e going for a topper too? Crazy comfort I guess you'll have to store the topper in the main van when the roof is down?

We got the comfort mattress for downstairs but haven’t used it yet. It’ll be on nights when the weather is bad and roof is down.

I want to make the pop top bed crazy comfortable but unsure how easy it is.

Yeah you wouldn’t be able to store an additional mattress in the roof.

On a side note, another Cali driver waved to me when I drove past them.

 

[stationmaster]

We got the comfort mattress for downstairs but haven’t used it yet. It’ll be on nights when the weather is bad and roof is down.

I want to make the pop top bed crazy comfortable but unsure how easy it is.

Yeah you wouldn’t be able to store an additional mattress in the roof.

On a side note, another Cali driver waved to me when I drove past them.

I think there are a few options for all out pop top comfort...

Good to hear you've had a wave... you deserve it now your'e a fully paid up owner

 

[markbrown83]

We are away again this weekend for a couple of nights so will have more rain testing.

 

[RockinNRollin]

As above, not really necessary with care. Some limited evidence the bungee can wear the fabric and possibly contributed to (possibly a now extinct) issue of the top corners of the bellows detaching from the roof. Plus it obscures the panoramic view from the top!

Just don’t get complacent - a gust at the wrong time, even a fairly gentle one, can be enough to blow the fabric about. Always watch it carefully as it goes down. A minute or two extra each time is nothing compared with the mither and cost if repairing or replacing a scissored canvas. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if the new thick canvas might cause damage to the “scissors” too as it’s much more substantial.

 

[bullibuskombi]

As above, not really necessary with care. Some limited evidence the bungee can wear the fabric and possibly contributed to (possibly a now extinct) issue of the top corners of the bellows detaching from the roof. Plus it obscures the panoramic view from the top!

Just don’t get complacent - a gust at the wrong time, even a fairly gentle one, can be enough to blow the fabric about. Always watch it carefully as it goes down. A minute or two extra each time is nothing compared with the mither and cost if repairing or replacing a scissored canvas. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if the new thick canvas might cause damage to the “scissors” too as it’s much more substantial.

I found a bungee great for hanging plastic bags on the roof to stop the leaks

 

[Justinitus1972]

Having previously tested our 04S bellows (dated 13/11/23, A sticker on the tag) with good results, we are currently up in Scotland with persistent light rain (5hrs+) and light 9-10mph winds and woke at 2am to find water dripping from pretty much every seam on the front and side panels of the bellows, including water seeping through the rubber strip along the bottom of the roof seal where it joins the body.

The canvas is quite wet as the rain has been pretty constant since about 9pm last night but it’s light rain - just pitter-patter on the roof, and a very light breeze - nothing major at all. Certainly nothing that would prompt me to think of lowering the roof.

The 03S canvas on our previous June 2023 Cali leaked, but not anywhere near as bad as this one. We are so very disappointed. Just sat and emailed the dealer at 04:45am, whilst drying yet more tea towels in front of the heater.

Such a poor signal here, I can’t post photos. And there’s lots of them.

Edit 06:30hrs: Rain stopped about 05:15am (total 8hrs rain) but the bellows are wet and still dripping. 5 tea towels, 4 thick microfibre cloths wrung out and drying around the van with the heater on level 6 and 1.5 rolls of sopping paper towel in a bin bag. Now have my complete supply of clean socks lined up around the roof like a little train soaking up the water. Anyone know where to buy socks in Glencoe??

 

[Justinitus1972]

Update - just checked I noticed water on my rear shelf?

View attachment 120331

We have the same on our 2024 Cali and had the same in our previous 2023 Cali - it’s from the tailgate rubber seal. Keeping the seal clean helped a little but it still drips.