Motor home ban

[blakeley]

It is disgusting what’s left when they leave a site, but it’s also bad that local authorities don’t provision sufficient official sites for them to stay at, which they are empowered to do, and which would minimise this issue. The travellers have nowhere to go, and then tax payers money is wasted cleaning up after them.

Why the hell should tax payers pay for them to have transit sites? Why dont they live in houses like normal people

 

[Amarillo]

Why the hell should tax payers pay for them to have transit sites? Why dont they live in houses like normal people

My local council briefly classed my two sons as travellers' children when I tried applying for a school place from a campsite, first in Sicily and later in Greece.

 

[Lightning]

Why the hell should tax payers pay for them to have transit sites? Why dont they live in houses like normal people

Seriously?
Everybody who doesn't choose to live just like you is abnormal?

 

[Lightning]

Not unless you own the ground as well. If it is a public ground it's not your home.

My home is still where I park it.

 

[Amarillo]

My home is still where I park it.

That's more or less what my local authority tried to tell me when we applied for a school place.

However, legally your home is where you normally reside.

 

[Adamvanman]

Seriously?
Everybody who doesn't choose to live just like you is abnormal?

You have obviously never come across travellers have you !!

 

[Lightning]

That's more or less what my local authority tried to tell me when we applied for a school place.

However, legally your home is where you normally reside.

My home, where I normally reside, is where I park it.

 

[Lightning]

You have obviously never come across travellers have you !!

I have, and I think the problems are amplified because they have no official sites to go to.
Where I’m parked up at the moment it’s on the outskirts of a big city, and there are about 20 vans here most nights, all very respectful and quiet, mostly working people.
A few weeks ago a single traveller motorhome turned up and parked amongst us, but you couldn’t tell immediately as they looked like everybody else from the outside. They started using a small area of trees as their toilet and as soon as the council realised there was a traveller there they started very vigorously enforcing the parking restrictions. Once they left the council went back to tolerating our presence and stopped enforcing the parking restrictions again.
If they had somewhere to go with facilities, they would probably use it and it would probably cost the tax payer less overall.

 

[clarinetbcn]

It is harmless.

I hiked up Ben Nevis this summer, had a lucky clear day. But, the summit was covered in organic trash. At the visitor’s center, they inform the public that park personnel remove an average of 10-11 trash containers of waste every year, 7 which are banana peels.

 

[Lightning]

I hiked up Ben Nevis this summer, had a lucky clear day. But, the summit was covered in organic trash. At the visitor’s center, they inform the public that every year park personnel remove average of 10-11 trash containers of waste every year, 7 which are banana peels.

Banana peels won’t fit down the drain.

 

[Rob friedrich]

That is not my experience. The French create a terrible mess at informal rest areas. In Poland, at places where you have to pay to use the loo, you have to be very careful with your foot placement if you want to save €1.50 for yourself and two boys to pee behind a bush.

Peage aires in France are generally excellent. I’ve seen for myself how a team of cleaners hose down the facilities at 7am and do a litter pick of the entire picnic area. Non-peage aires are less clean.

Your right here on the Peage they actually encourage stopping and the service areas even have showers.They are exceptionally clean and put the UK to disgrace , where we are only seen as money ,everything costs ,even if tired on a UK motorway any stay over 2 hours can result in a hefty fine from those cameras taking our reg.Give me the continent any day

 

[Amarillo]

I hiked up Ben Nevis this summer, had a lucky clear day. But, the summit was covered in organic trash. At the visitor’s center, they inform the public that park personnel remove an average of 10-11 trash containers of waste every year, 7 which are banana peels.

Tea bags and banana skins are probably the worst, but even a quick decomposing apple core can damage a vulnerable ecosystem, so unless you happen to be passing an orchard, it’s best to take your apple core home for the compost bin.

 

[flying banana]

I agree with the organic waste. Nowt worse than hiking in the lakes and see banana skins. Orange peel. Pistachio shells. Dumped everywhere by people who think it's OK. On a mountain that has a snow pack this garbage is up there for months. Maybe years. If it doesn't belong there it is litter. Simple as that.

 

[DJCWORCS]

It is disgusting what’s left when they leave a site, but it’s also bad that local authorities don’t provision sufficient official sites for them to stay at, which they are empowered to do, and which would minimise this issue. The travellers have nowhere to go, and then tax payers money is wasted cleaning up after them.

As in every demographic there are polar opposites in attitude :-
Some years ago, while living in a city, travellers arrived and spent 6 weeks on a disused petrol station next door. to our house. There were around 3 very large caravans, and despite a very large available space, they parked as close as possible with one van side on to the kitchen window about 8 feet away so we could no longer see out. They dumped all human waste behind our garages and also put a standpipe down to the water supply on the pavement outside. When challenged they were happy to tell us their lifestyle meant they did NOT HAVE TO PAY for any services and why should they when they could access water and bag up all other waste and dump it - the council would clear it up!.
Conversely, there is a well managed traveller site with facilities near where we live now, where residents pay a nominal rent and the children attend the local school.

 

[Lightning]

As in every demographic there are polar opposites in attitude :-
Some years ago, while living in a city, travellers arrived and spent 6 weeks on a disused petrol station next door. to our house. There were around 3 very large caravans, and despite a very large available space, they parked as close as possible with one van side on to the kitchen window about 8 feet away so we could no longer see out. They dumped all human waste behind our garages and also put a standpipe down to the water supply on the pavement outside. When challenged they were happy to tell us their lifestyle meant they did NOT HAVE TO PAY for any services and why should they when they could access water and bag up all other waste and dump it - the council would clear it up!.
Conversely, there is a well managed traveller site with facilities near where we live now, where residents pay a nominal rent and the children attend the local school.

Priti Patel has recently tabled a proposal to make it a criminal offence to set up home at the side of the road or anywhere else with the landowners permission. When two or more vehicles or caravans are involved. The police will have the power to seize vehicles and ban people from returning for one year. For doing no more than stopping. No time limit and ni other offence is necessary. This law if implemented will apply just to wild campers in vans on holiday as it will to gypsies and travellers.
The law is proposed in direct opposition to police recommendations.
So now they propose to criminalise gypsies without providing anywhere for them to go, It’s blatant discrimination, and anyone not using a campsite could be affected by it.

 

[Nick H]

This might be a generalisation but people on the continent seem less likely to drop litter. The amount of crap on the streets of our cities and off grid camping areas is significantly greater than anything I see in Europe

Absolutely. Again the minority ruin things for the rest. A litter pick of almost any country car park reveals nappies, food waste, endless wipes, drinks bottles, underwear...…. I see virtually nothing in continental verges and car parks.

 

[Nick H]

Priti Patel has recently tabled a proposal to make it a criminal offence to set up home at the side of the road or anywhere else with the landowners permission. When two or more vehicles or caravans are involved. The police will have the power to seize vehicles and ban people from returning for one year. For doing no more than stopping. No time limit and ni other offence is necessary. This law if implemented will apply just to wild campers in vans on holiday as it will to gypsies and travellers.
The law is proposed in direct opposition to police recommendations.
So now they propose to criminalise gypsies without providing anywhere for them to go, It’s blatant discrimination, and anyone not using a campsite could be affected by it.

Not to mention the huge number of "homeless" people they have created with austerity.

 

[Amarillo]

Absolutely. Again the minority ruin things for the rest. A litter pick of almost any country car park reveals nappies, food waste, endless wipes, drinks bottles, underwear...…. I see virtually nothing in continental verges and car parks.

Around Europe there are clean and dirty areas. Around Naples is about the worst I have seen. South Tyrol possibly the best outside the Nordic countries. Britain is probably better than average despite its high population density.

 

[ThomasHJ]

[....] I fail to understand why people who can afford many thousands of pounds to buy a motorhome or camper van are unwilling to support the local economy in places they utilise, by paying for a campsite where there are proper facilities.......[...

I fully agree that people, all people, should leave any place they visit at least as tidy as they find it. And I can imagine it's frustrating if people ruin your local environment with waste and rubbish. I myself have never used a camperplace or camped 'wild'. I have always stayed on campings. BUT, your comment seems a bit shortsighted. The fact that you can afford a camper(van) shouldn't mean that you are forced to stay on campings. What's wrong with camping/overnighting somewhere else if the law allows it and you keep tidy? Also, there are many ways in which people in campers, campervans support local communities. Think restaurants, museums, local ice cream vendor, pubs, etc. Your frustration about people making a mess is understandable, but the comment that everyone who can afford a camper(van) should automatically use campings a bit less so imho.

 

[Calimili]

I fully agree that people, all people, should leave any place they visit at least as tidy as they find it. And I can imagine it's frustrating if people ruin your local environment with waste and rubbish. I myself have never used a camperplace or camped 'wild'. I have always stayed on campings. BUT, your comment seems a bit shortsighted. The fact that you can afford a camper(van) shouldn't mean that you are forced to stay on campings. What's wrong with camping/overnighting somewhere else if the law allows it and you keep tidy? Also, there are many ways in which people in campers, campervans support local communities. Think restaurants, museums, local ice cream vendor, pubs, etc. Your frustration about people making a mess is understandable, but the comment that everyone who can afford a camper(van) should automatically use campings a bit less so imho.

Well, because people were ALLOWED to wild camp and they abused of the freedom (see numerous examples how in this very thread), people will NOT be allowed to wild camp anymore.
Supporting the local community is debatable, lots of people bring their own food and drinks in the Motorhome, and apparently cleaning after them is not compensated by the additional possible revenue.

 

[WelshGas]

Not to mention the huge number of "homeless" people they have created with austerity.

And who left the note in the Treasury 8 yrs ago that there was No More Money left.

‘I’m afraid there is no money.’ The letter I will regret for ever | Labour | The Guardian

Liam Byrne, chief secretary to the Treasury under Gordon Brown, left a note for his successor that proved to be a gift for the Conservatives

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Lightning]

Well, because people were ALLOWED to wild camp and they abused of the freedom (see numerous examples how in this very thread), people will NOT be allowed to wild camp anymore.
Supporting the local community is debatable, lots of people bring their own food and drinks in the Motorhome, and apparently cleaning after them is not compensated by the additional possible revenue.

I really don’t understand why people who can pay thousands for a Campervan don’t stay in hotels. Campsites contribute comparatively little to the economy and who wants to walk outside in the rain to a dodgy shower block? Cheapskates.

For me campsites don’t offer value for money and even if they did I would still choose to wild camp. I have stayed in some stunning unspoilt locations which campsites can’t compete with, and also many litter strewn car parks and industrial estates. It’s always fun.

Wild camping won’t stop, it will just keep moving and evolve. On the Outer Hebrides one of the islands has monetised all their lay-bys for overnight stays, and there are unenforceable home made no camping signs all over the place too. In the Trossachs national park they have created a huge camping control zone, where you have to buy permits to stay overnight in season anywhere within it. This costs them so much to enforce that they lose money, yet they are still considering a similar scheme for the NC500.

 

[ThomasHJ]

Well, because people were ALLOWED to wild camp and they abused of the freedom (see numerous examples how in this very thread), people will NOT be allowed to wild camp anymore.
Supporting the local community is debatable, lots of people bring their own food and drinks in the Motorhome, and apparently cleaning after them is not compensated by the additional possible revenue.

In the end there'll always be different views about campings, wild camping, hotels, etc... That's ok, it's a good thing. But forcing your specific opinion on everyone by trying to forbid things when the problem can be solved in other ways is not helping anyone. Also, if you couldnt enforce the non-littering laws in the first place, good luck enforcing the no-camping laws.

 

[Digger]

Not wishing to be a spoil sport but having been involved in the planning issue and control of wild camping Do Not think it unenforceable or unthinkable controls will happen. The political will is to monitor and then decide but if bad habits and excessive abuse increases there will be action. They may even use climate change to justify controls

 

[Lightning]

Not wishing to be a spoil sport but having been involved in the planning issue and control of wild camping Do Not think it unenforceable or unthinkable controls will happen. The political will is to monitor and then decide but if bad habits and excessive abuse increases there will be action. They may even use climate change to justify controls

It’s illegal in Croatia yet wild camping continues. Enforcement is expensive.