New engine needed - what should we think about?

[camperlifenorth]

Hi forum,

I would have wished that my first post would have been on a different topic, but here we are.

We have received the sad news that our 2015 180 Cali needs a new engine, since the current one has been considered defect (excessive oil use, EGR valve with C suffix etc. etc.). We have no insurance or warranty left to cover this, but besides this, we love the car and everything else on it working flawlessly except for the engine, so we just want to swallow the bitter pill, get the engine replaced and move on with our lives, preferably with the car.

VW has given us a price estimate around 15-16K euro for fitting a new engine, and we're now thinking about going somewhere else to get it fixed and hopefully save some money. My question is - what should we think about when talking to potential garages? Which parts of the engine do we want to make sure is changed, not to end up in the same situation again? Do we want to get an original engine from VW? Are refurbished engines from e.g. Poland to be aware of, or could that be a feasible alternative? In short - I want to gather all information I can to ensure this is done right, and would appreciate all help and advice you could provide.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Following with interest as understood that the issue was more with earlier vans. We are potentially looking at a 2015 180 later this week.

For a new engine would bite the bullet and go with VW replacement, then you have a proper warranty and will be easier to sell on a later date. If plan to keep the van long term then engine is worth replacing.

Or sell the 180 van to Webuyanycar / Motorway as it is and take a loss on the price. Then buy similar age 140 /150bhp van and get the engine remapped. Overall cost to you will be far cheaper than a replacement engine.

 

[Alan Andrews]

Just remember that the engine is a VW Transporter engine. This will give you more options to find another Transporter/commercial vehicle garage.

There are many companies who will install a replacement and reconditioned engine for you. Many will come with a warranty.

Yes it is a fairly large job to replace an engine, but the vans are designed for such a job, and providing the garage you select are familiar with VW transporters then this should not be an issue.

In the document pack there should be a large white sticker. This is the VW factory build sticker.

It lists the component details (codes) for the major items and extras installed.

This will help the garage to identify the spec and variant of engine you have.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Find a VW/VAG specialist (probably doesn't even have to be a van specialist, just a VW specialist) and explain the situation to see what options they have. It might be repairable for less than a swap if everything else is good. VW aren't interested in such an approach as they like to just replace bits, but an independent who knows what they're doing may take a different attitute.

If it does need changing, second hand engines obtained from a scrappy are definitely cheaper that VW will be, the labour cost will be making up half of the cost I should think. I would see exactly what VW are including in their cost, e.g. is it just the engine, or does it include turbo, intercoolers, gearbox etc. etc. - given how VW approach things, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't include a load of ancillaries as part of the "package" as they consider them a single system.

If going second hand, it's making sure the engine is decent (and I know, that's not easy to diagnose). It's unlikely a scrappy engine will have much or any history, so you'll be looking at things like compression, state of the turbos (things like impeller shaft play, sticking variable vane actuator if it has one), oil condition, "mayo" under the oil cap, state of timing/aux belts etc. - a lot of unknowns, although theoretically nothing worse than the risk you'd take on a second hand vehicle anyway.

 

[WelshGas]

Hi forum,

I would have wished that my first post would have been on a different topic, but here we are.

We have received the sad news that our 2015 180 Cali needs a new engine, since the current one has been considered defect (excessive oil use, EGR valve with C suffix etc. etc.). We have no insurance or warranty left to cover this, but besides this, we love the car and everything else on it working flawlessly except for the engine, so we just want to swallow the bitter pill, get the engine replaced and move on with our lives, preferably with the car.

VW has given us a price estimate around 15-16K euro for fitting a new engine, and we're now thinking about going somewhere else to get it fixed and hopefully save some money. My question is - what should we think about when talking to potential garages? Which parts of the engine do we want to make sure is changed, not to end up in the same situation again? Do we want to get an original engine from VW? Are refurbished engines from e.g. Poland to be aware of, or could that be a feasible alternative? In short - I want to gather all information I can to ensure this is done right, and would appreciate all help and advice you could provide.

Firstly, commiserations.
Next, how long do you intend keeping the vehicle? 10 yrs or so, or a lot less?
The high oil consumption is due to damage to the cylinder bores . As a minimum the engine block, crankshaft , pistons, oil pump, DPF and EGR valve, oil cooler and turbo charger need to be changed for longevity and cylinder head checked and possibly refurbished.
If you are looking longterm then a new engine fitted by VW or a good independent specialist is the way forward.
If shorterm then a refurbished engine and components and if realy shorterm a 2nd hand engine block and sell.
Be aware, non of the above can guarantee this not happening. All EGR variants have been implicated. Breakdown in the EGR cooler causes the damage and no one knows why some EGRs breakdown and some do not. Whether it be faulty EGRs, driving style or something else that causes the EGR oil cooler to breakdown and damage the engine.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Find a VW/VAG specialist (probably doesn't even have to be a van specialist, just a VW specialist) and explain the situation to see what options they have. It might be repairable for less than a swap if everything else is good. VW aren't interested in such an approach as they like to just replace bits, but an independent who knows what they're doing may take a different attitute.

If it does need changing, second hand engines obtained from a scrappy are definitely cheaper that VW will be, the labour cost will be making up half of the cost I should think. I would see exactly what VW are including in their cost, e.g. is it just the engine, or does it include turbo, intercoolers, gearbox etc. etc. - given how VW approach things, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't include a load of ancillaries as part of the "package" as they consider them a single system.

If going second hand, it's making sure the engine is decent (and I know, that's not easy to diagnose). It's unlikely a scrappy engine will have much or any history, so you'll be looking at things like compression, state of the turbos (things like impeller shaft play, sticking variable vane actuator if it has one), oil condition, "mayo" under the oil cap, state of timing/aux belts etc. - a lot of unknowns, although theoretically nothing worse than the risk you'd take on a second hand vehicle anyway.

Trouble is that you could end up buying similar engine (ie - knackered / problem 180) as a replacement engine and being in exactly the same position but a few £ down. Van would also be very difficult to sell at a later date versus having a new warrantied engine fitted; Plus everytime the van burnt slightly more oil than normal your heart would sink.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Trouble is that you could end up buying similar engine (ie - knackered / problem 180) as a replacement engine and being in exactly the same position but a few £ down. Van would also be very difficult to sell at a later date versus having a new warrantied engine fitted; Plus everytime the van burnt slightly more oil than normal your heart would sink.

Very true, hence my big list of caveats! VW say though that up to a 1 litre per 1000 miles (or km?) or something is "normal" apparently - that always used to get my goat. I've never actually had a VAG engine that has used any oil, but that's how I think it should be - if it's consuming up to a litre per whatever, that's suggesting something is poorly made somewhere!

 

[Gliderbee California 6.1]

Following with interest as understood that the issue was more with earlier vans. We are potentially looking at a 2015 180 later this week.

For a new engine would bite the bullet and go with VW replacement, then you have a proper warranty and will be easier to sell on a later date. If plan to keep the van long term then engine is worth replacing.

Or sell the 180 van to Webuyanycar / Motorway as it is and take a loss on the price. Then buy similar age 140 /150bhp van and get the engine remapped. Overall cost to you will be far cheaper than a replacement engine.

A bit beside the question: why getting the engine remapped ? To make it more powerful ? My 2023 California has the 150bhp, and ok, it's not like my motorbike, but it's fine for travelling with a Van: it's not a race car ...

 

[WelshGas]

A bit beside the question: why getting the engine remapped ? To make it more powerful ? My 2023 California has the 150bhp, and ok, it's not like my motorbike, but it's fine for travelling with a Van: it's not a race car ...

BHP is not all about speed.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

A bit beside the question: why getting the engine remapped ? To make it more powerful ? My 2023 California has the 150bhp, and ok, it's not like my motorbike, but it's fine for travelling with a Van: it's not a race car ...

Gives more midrange torque. so less gear changes & improved mpg. Great on country lanes, very little difference in 6th gear on a motorway.

We had our 140 remapped to approx 170 and uprated ARB fitted. It stopped the wallow and made it more fun to drive. Our old 20year old T4 Special (nothing special about it!) with standard setup had better handling than our T5.1 before we changed the ARB.

 

[RockinNRollin]

The whole thing about a custom remap is just that; it can be customised. Stock engine maps are intended to hit specific criteria the manufacturer wants to see achieved, usually around emissions and peak power figures (to please those that just look at a single number).

From a performance perspective, the shape and total area under the power curve is far more relevant than the peak number. A good example are your "classic" rev-happy Japanese cars of the 90s, e.g. Celica T-Sports, which popped out a good bhp number and impressive acceleration times, but nothing happened until the last few 1k rpm of the power curve so you had to be "on it" to get the power out of it. Compare that to something with a good percentage of it's power being delivered a mid-range and a steady build in bhp from there as you rise through the rpm range, would be far more driveable and probably quicker in the real world as you're not having to constantly stir the gearbox to keep in the power band.

Personally I am happy enough with the 150 engine characteristics, but if there was one thing I'd want changing is increasing the rpms the DSG box shifts from 1st to 2nd. It really grates me how it "slurs" into 2nd gear from barely a standstill; it feels like it's burning away at the clutch plates!

Edit: just before the whole torque vs power thing comes in, to clarify, loads of torque at a very low rpm will give apparent driveability but not if that torque isn't sustained (because otherwise you'll need to keep changing up gears, then you lose the gearing advantage and the acceleration suffers). Power is a function of torque and rpm; the ideal characteristics give enough torque low down to make the engine "punchy", but to maintain enough torque towards the top of the rpm range to keep that flexibility, so you can launch an overtake in 3rd at 2k rpm and it's still pulling strong as it approaches the red line.

 

[B J G]

Hi forum,

I would have wished that my first post would have been on a different topic, but here we are.

We have received the sad news that our 2015 180 Cali needs a new engine, since the current one has been considered defect (excessive oil use, EGR valve with C suffix etc. etc.). We have no insurance or warranty left to cover this, but besides this, we love the car and everything else on it working flawlessly except for the engine, so we just want to swallow the bitter pill, get the engine replaced and move on with our lives, preferably with the car.

VW has given us a price estimate around 15-16K euro for fitting a new engine, and we're now thinking about going somewhere else to get it fixed and hopefully save some money. My question is - what should we think about when talking to potential garages? Which parts of the engine do we want to make sure is changed, not to end up in the same situation again? Do we want to get an original engine from VW? Are refurbished engines from e.g. Poland to be aware of, or could that be a feasible alternative? In short - I want to gather all information I can to ensure this is done right, and would appreciate all help and advice you could provide.

may help if you have an installing garage sourced.

VW Transporter T5.1 / T6 180bhp CFCA code crate engine, brand new genuine VW 03L100092AX

VW Transporter T5.1 / T6 180bhp CFCA code crate engine, brand new genuine VW 03L100092AX Description This is a 2.0 BiTDi 180ps CFCA code 'crate engine' Includes: Block Cylinder head all internals including Crank, pistons, injectors etc Fitmen

www.deutsche-parts.co.uk

 

[soulstyledevon]

Is it worth doing the work…?
I would consider scraping the van, selling for parts and ordering a new one (if the VW mega deal is still going).
Sometimes, you just have to draw a line and put it down to experience…

 

[Hawthorn37]

Tend to agree with @soulstyledevon. I’d hate to part with our van, but ultimately the van is what you put in it and how you use it. As @WelshGas has commented, the 180 engine is a bit of a lottery. I’d kick myself if I’d shelled out £5k - £14k on a replacement engine / rebuild only for it to happen again. Plus future buyers will be aware of he problems. It’s a budget thing but I’d be inclined to get a 150bhp engined van.

 

[Steve1]

Is it worth doing the work…?
I would consider scraping the van, selling for parts and ordering a new one (if the VW mega deal is still going).
Sometimes, you just have to draw a line and put it down to experience…

Don't be ridiculous, clearly telling someone to consider scraping a vehicle of that value is not at all helpful. Breaking it yourself for parts is clearly out of most people's reach and selling it for scrap to a breakers would leave you awfully out of pocket, they will give you peanuts for it, and then fix the engine and sell it on themselves.

 

[mattpartridge]

Hi forum,

I would have wished that my first post would have been on a different topic, but here we are.

We have received the sad news that our 2015 180 Cali needs a new engine, since the current one has been considered defect (excessive oil use, EGR valve with C suffix etc. etc.). We have no insurance or warranty left to cover this, but besides this, we love the car and everything else on it working flawlessly except for the engine, so we just want to swallow the bitter pill, get the engine replaced and move on with our lives, preferably with the car.

VW has given us a price estimate around 15-16K euro for fitting a new engine, and we're now thinking about going somewhere else to get it fixed and hopefully save some money. My question is - what should we think about when talking to potential garages? Which parts of the engine do we want to make sure is changed, not to end up in the same situation again? Do we want to get an original engine from VW? Are refurbished engines from e.g. Poland to be aware of, or could that be a feasible alternative? In short - I want to gather all information I can to ensure this is done right, and would appreciate all help and advice you could provide.

Hi,
Sorry to hear about your van, how many miles/Kms has the van done?
Matt

 

[B J G]

Is it worth doing the work…?
I would consider scraping the van, selling for parts and ordering a new one (if the VW mega deal is still going).
Sometimes, you just have to draw a line and put it down to experience…

Sometimes pure hard headed logic needs applying in that is a new van with an outlay of £80K+ with first year depreciation possibly equal to the cost of an engine replacement the best option?

Other than status would a new van provide any different level of use benefits or just bring the issues that come with the T6.1 (leaking roof and various electronic related problems)

 

[Californication69]

Sometimes pure hard headed logic needs applying in that is a new van with an outlay of £80K+ with first year depreciation possibly equal to the cost of an engine replacement the best option?

Other than status would a new van provide any different level of use benefits or just bring the issues that come with the T6.1 (leaking roof and various electronic related problems)

What are these various electronic problems?
I have a 6.1 and only had the DSG gear selector replaced under warranty.
The rear sticky hot button climate control module and the passenger side window finger trap adjusted.
Otherwise, 15 months trouble free.

Commiserations to the OP
I wondered if you would put some more info.
How old are you, how long are you going to keep the vehicle for after the £10k work is done?

In my scenario, I bought new as I want to know where the California has been at the birth.
I’m going to be paying it off and keeping for 20 years.
As it will be my do anything vehicle.
What scenarios will you be using the California for, for the next 10 years ?
If a new engine can be installed by VW, how long is the warranty ?
If you can get a warranty for 5 years on the engine and new parts?
Will the new engine be devoid of the main issue with the 180 engine?
Something about metal ending up in the piston liners and scraping lines in the metal is it ?
Leading to failure.
But a good start to come to the forum and ask question for sure.
I’d also find a specialist VAG mechanic who has been around for 10 years + and get a quote, like for like with VWCV

 

[2into1]

If no one has mentioned retro reus yet, you should 100% talk to them about fitting a replacement new engine at a much lower cost, and the mods they'd do to stop it happening again.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Hi forum,

I would have wished that my first post would have been on a different topic, but here we are.

We have received the sad news that our 2015 180 Cali needs a new engine, since the current one has been considered defect (excessive oil use, EGR valve with C suffix etc. etc.). We have no insurance or warranty left to cover this, but besides this, we love the car and everything else on it working flawlessly except for the engine, so we just want to swallow the bitter pill, get the engine replaced and move on with our lives, preferably with the car.

VW has given us a price estimate around 15-16K euro for fitting a new engine, and we're now thinking about going somewhere else to get it fixed and hopefully save some money. My question is - what should we think about when talking to potential garages? Which parts of the engine do we want to make sure is changed, not to end up in the same situation again? Do we want to get an original engine from VW? Are refurbished engines from e.g. Poland to be aware of, or could that be a feasible alternative? In short - I want to gather all information I can to ensure this is done right, and would appreciate all help and advice you could provide.

If the rest of the van is in great condition I would get the VW engine.

You personally get peace of mind for your ownership and a good resale at some future point.
Pay the money and don’t take the risk of losing more through a repeat of the engine failure and/or an unsellable van.

 

[chez786]

Sorry haven’t read all the replies so apologies if already repeated . Have you researched the price with suppliers . We were in this predicament and I sat one morning and phoned parts people . The engine turned out to be alt less than thought once our reg was added . Proving vw are fully aware of this issue .

 

[chez786]

Sorry haven’t read all the replies so apologies if already repeated . Have you researched the price with suppliers . We were in this predicament and I sat one morning and phoned parts people . The engine turned out to be alt less than thought once our reg was added . Proving vw are fully aware of this issue .

I won’t recommend our fitter as he told me me he would never do another one . Small garage limited space etc

 

[Californication69]

If no one has mentioned retro reus yet, you should 100% talk to them about fitting a replacement new engine at a much lower cost, and the mods they'd do to stop it happening again.

That looks a nice place.
I might talk to them about my project Saab engine rebuild, lighten and balance I want doing.
Another specialist engine rebuild place is
Halfpenny Green.
Board arrow motors.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Sometimes pure hard headed logic needs applying in that is a new van with an outlay of £80K+ with first year depreciation possibly equal to the cost of an engine replacement the best option?

Other than status would a new van provide any different level of use benefits or just bring the issues that come with the T6.1 (leaking roof and various electronic related problems)

It’s not an £80k+ van.
Plus, what the people say it’s worth and what it’s really worth are two very different things.
Personally, I would take the age of the van into consideration. At a potential £10k+ rebuild, that will be the start of the expense.
It’s bound to have other issue along the way, as all older vehicles do.
Personally, I would offer it up for breaking as the California has lots of useful expensive parts and start again. If it’s even possible to order new…???

As for going to Volkswagen for a new engine. That would be the last place I would go. They couldn’t do it right the first time…

 

[Californication69]

As for going to Volkswagen for a new engine. That would be the last place I would go. They couldn’t do it right the first time…

Agree with you there.
If you’re keeping it, you want a reliable better stronger long lasting engine for cheaper than VW.