New engine needed - what should we think about?

[RockinNRollin]

Just one last thought on all this; if the engine was replaced with a 180, you're potentially (as mentioned above) lining yourself up for more issues in the future. If it is replaced with any other engine, potentially you have modifications hoops to jump through? E.g. emissions, does that mean something needs to be changed on the registration or will it be out of kilter at MOT time? Tax/VED? Insurers would want to know too, although in reality they probably wouldn't be that bothered unless the power went up. I should imagine there might be ECU messing required too . . . the more I think about it, the more I'd be inclined to see what repair options (via independents) there are as the first port of call, see what the numbers look like, then take it from there.

Is there an aftermarket EGR solution that can be used as a preventative if the engine is swapped with another 180 (either new or used)?

 

[Californication69]

Just one last thought on all this; if the engine was replaced with a 180, you're potentially (as mentioned above) lining yourself up for more issues in the future. If it is replaced with any other engine, potentially you have modifications hoops to jump through? E.g. emissions, does that mean something needs to be changed on the registration or will it be out of kilter at MOT time? Tax/VED? Insurers would want to know too, although in reality they probably wouldn't be that bothered unless the power went up. I should imagine there might be ECU messing required too . . . the more I think about it, the more I'd be inclined to see what repair options (via independents) there are as the first port of call, see what the numbers look like, then take it from there.

Is there an aftermarket EGR solution that can be used as a preventative if the engine is swapped with another 180 (either new or used)?

Yep a simple “new engine” is sometimes not a case of just a new engine.
I’d want VW input as to the exact model of engine that would be installed, and what’s been done to remove the failure of the well known “180” Japanese death throwing itself on the blade!

 

[camperlifenorth]

Hi,
Sorry to hear about your van, how many miles/Kms has the van done?
Matt

Thanks around 18 000 km:s.

 

[Californication69]

Thanks around 18 000 km:s.

In 8 / 9 years ?

 

[WelshGas]

Just one last thought on all this; if the engine was replaced with a 180, you're potentially (as mentioned above) lining yourself up for more issues in the future. If it is replaced with any other engine, potentially you have modifications hoops to jump through? E.g. emissions, does that mean something needs to be changed on the registration or will it be out of kilter at MOT time? Tax/VED? Insurers would want to know too, although in reality they probably wouldn't be that bothered unless the power went up. I should imagine there might be ECU messing required too . . . the more I think about it, the more I'd be inclined to see what repair options (via independents) there are as the first port of call, see what the numbers look like, then take it from there.

Is there an aftermarket EGR solution that can be used as a preventative if the engine is swapped with another 180 (either new or used)?

Yep a simple “new engine” is sometimes not a case of just a new engine.
I’d want VW input as to the exact model of engine that would be installed, and what’s been done to remove the failure of the well known “180” Japanese death throwing itself on the blade!

There is no fix for the " EGR" failing on the 180 BiTurbo , post 2011, engine because No One knows why it occurs in a minority of cases.
I have a 2014 180 BiTurbo. Now on 127,367 miles with ZERO oil consumption between annual services. The EGR was changed at 2 weeks/900 miles due to an electrical fault. The replacement doesn't even have an A,B,C or D after the part number.

Pre 2011 CFCA 180 engines had a manufacturing fault on some engines that VW has accepted.

 

[camperlifenorth]

Thank you so m

In 8 / 9 years ?

Yes (we have not owned it for all that time).

 

[Californication69]

Yes (we have not owned it for all that time).

So it’s done 2k kilometers a year.
Thats not good on a diesel engine with EGR.

 

[camperlifenorth]

If no one has mentioned retro reus yet, you should 100% talk to them about fitting a replacement new engine at a much lower cost, and the mods they'd do to stop it happening again.

Yea I've read about them and seen them be recommended in several threads, unfortunately the van is not in UK ...

 

[camperlifenorth]

What are these various electronic problems?
I have a 6.1 and only had the DSG gear selector replaced under warranty.
The rear sticky hot button climate control module and the passenger side window finger trap adjusted.
Otherwise, 15 months trouble free.

Commiserations to the OP
I wondered if you would put some more info.
How old are you, how long are you going to keep the vehicle for after the £10k work is done?

In my scenario, I bought new as I want to know where the California has been at the birth.
I’m going to be paying it off and keeping for 20 years.
As it will be my do anything vehicle.
What scenarios will you be using the California for, for the next 10 years ?
If a new engine can be installed by VW, how long is the warranty ?
If you can get a warranty for 5 years on the engine and new parts?
Will the new engine be devoid of the main issue with the 180 engine?
Something about metal ending up in the piston liners and scraping lines in the metal is it ?
Leading to failure.
But a good start to come to the forum and ask question for sure.
I’d also find a specialist VAG mechanic who has been around for 10 years + and get a quote, like for like with VWCV

We plan to keep the car for several years, to use on weekends and holidays and as the second car in the household - we basically live full time in it during the summers. It's in great shape when it comes to interior, roof etc. etc. the "only" issue is the engine ... and we would definitely want to keep it for a long time.

 

[camperlifenorth]

Thanks all for providing your input, highly appreciated! As an addition, if it evokes any other ideas or recommendations, or could be of help for someone else reading this, here's the verdict from VW, sorry if some parts of it are poorly translated.

Diagnosis: gf/charged battery

• Reading event memory, error codes on unreasonable signal exhaust gas recirculation
• Measure reference voltage, sensor = ok
• Measure voltage within sensor = not ok
• Defective EGR valve - replacement complete exhaust cooler needed
• Switch f bonnet contact greased, but replacement is required
• Particle filter clogged due to high oil consumption
• Probably defective engine due to high oil consumption

Oil consumption test recommended.

However, we cannot proceeded with the oil consumption test, since it's not possible to drive the car as the engine light is on (due to the issues above), so I have asked VW what they recommend as a next step now.

 

[Beeechke1]

Thanks all for providing your input, highly appreciated! As an addition, if it evokes any other ideas or recommendations, or could be of help for someone else reading this, here's the verdict from VW, sorry if some parts of it are poorly translated.

Diagnosis: gf/charged battery

• Reading event memory, error codes on unreasonable signal exhaust gas recirculation
• Measure reference voltage, sensor = ok
• Measure voltage within sensor = not ok
• Defective EGR valve - replacement complete exhaust cooler needed
• Switch f bonnet contact greased, but replacement is required
• Particle filter clogged due to high oil consumption
• Probably defective engine due to high oil consumption

Oil consumption test recommended.

However, we cannot proceeded with the oil consumption test, since it's not possible to drive the car as the engine light is on (due to the issues above), so I have asked VW what they recommend as a next step now.

How much oil has your Cali been using during your ownership?

 

[Steve1]

We plan to keep the car for several years, to use on weekends and holidays and as the second car in the household - we basically live full time in it during the summers. It's in great shape when it comes to interior, roof etc. etc. the "only" issue is the engine ... and we would definitely want to keep it for a long time.

It sounds like you like the Van and it's worth doing the repairs then. My opinion would be that I would try to find an independent garage who will fit a genuine VW engine so you get the 2 year warranty. Or a company who would remove the engine and recondition it themselves and warranty that work for a similar time. I would not get a garage to fit a third party recon engine because they will all push responsibility to the other party if there is a problem and also in general recon engines are a bit of a minefield some are good and some aren't much more than a cleaned and painted engine from a scrap van.

Also I would try first to get a second opinion on diagnosis before spending out too much. There are lots of things that can cause oil burning and because of the known issue I think people do jump.to.conclusions that it's definitely a worn engine. Only a couple of weeks ago here VW diagnosed someone's engine as scrap and in the end it only needed a new injector and it was ok again. I'm not saying it won't turn out to be the bad bores, but I would want to make really sure it wasn't something like blown turbo seal first if it were me.

And in terms of other parts, I think if you are replacing the engine, then also replacing the egr and the turbos would be sensible.

 

[Steve1]

Thanks all for providing your input, highly appreciated! As an addition, if it evokes any other ideas or recommendations, or could be of help for someone else reading this, here's the verdict from VW, sorry if some parts of it are poorly translated.

Diagnosis: gf/charged battery

• Reading event memory, error codes on unreasonable signal exhaust gas recirculation
• Measure reference voltage, sensor = ok
• Measure voltage within sensor = not ok
• Defective EGR valve - replacement complete exhaust cooler needed
• Switch f bonnet contact greased, but replacement is required
• Particle filter clogged due to high oil consumption
• Probably defective engine due to high oil consumption

Oil consumption test recommended.

However, we cannot proceeded with the oil consumption test, since it's not possible to drive the car as the engine light is on (due to the issues above), so I have asked VW what they recommend as a next step now.

As said in my previous post. I would get it somewhere else for a second opinion, a better smaller garage willing to put in some effort. I wouldn't spend all that money on a replacement engine when the diagnosis said "probably defective engine" I would want to compression test it and find out if it was defective or not or if the oil burning was from another source e.g.turbo

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks around 18 000 km:s.

As @Steve1 said above. You need a 2nd opinion.
Most 180 engines that suffer from high oil use due to failure of the EGR cooler have a milage of about 60,000 +/- miles ( 96,000 km )
The turbo oil seals at least need to be checked, compression check and an engine oil analysis for high levels of aluminium .

This doesn’t sound right, not at 18,000 km.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

It wouldn’t be the first time a dealer wrongly recommended an engine. This was just a couple of months ago.

Flashing Orange Warning Light - bewildered by threads

I’m fairly open on saying I think VW dealers are appalling at fixing California camping bits like the roof or fridge. But even I would expect them to be able to diagnose and fix a Transporter engine of which VW have made hundreds of thousands. Have they given you a diagnosis in writing? You can...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[pjm-84]

Agree, mileage is too low for engine wear. I didn't emulate the EGR on mine until 44k miles and now its on 73k.

Engine cost or depreciation. Most will moan about maintenance / tyres etc but happily take a new vehicle to avoid this. Our new BMW has 15.5k miles on the clock, in 20months and has lost £35k in that time.

VW Transporter T5.1 / T6 excessive oil use for CFCA 2.0 180hp BiTDi engines - EGR Cooler failure - Hypermiler.co.uk

VW Transporter T5.1 / T6 excessive oil use for CFCA 2.0 180hp BiTDi engines - EGR Cooler failure - Hypermiler.co.uk

www.hypermiler.co.uk

Worth a read.

 

[clarinetbcn]

Very true, hence my big list of caveats! VW say though that up to a 1 litre per 1000 miles (or km?) or something is "normal" apparently - that always used to get my goat. I've never actually had a VAG engine that has used any oil, but that's how I think it should be - if it's consuming up to a litre per whatever, that's suggesting something is poorly made somewhere!

They are gaslighting you. My 2014 140 has 120,000km on the clock and doesn’t use a drop of oil between services. In contrast to what VW is telling you, oil usage of 1 liter per 1000 miles is proof of a terminally damaged engine.

 

[clarinetbcn]

Tend to agree with @soulstyledevon. I’d hate to part with our van, but ultimately the van is what you put in it and how you use it. As @WelshGas has commented, the 180 engine is a bit of a lottery. I’d kick myself if I’d shelled out £5k - £14k on a replacement engine / rebuild only for it to happen again. Plus future buyers will be aware of he problems. It’s a budget thing but I’d be inclined to get a 150bhp engined van.

Welshgas saying it’s a lottery is a victory for this forum.

 

[clarinetbcn]

It’s not an £80k+ van.
Plus, what the people say it’s worth and what it’s really worth are two very different things.
Personally, I would take the age of the van into consideration. At a potential £10k+ rebuild, that will be the start of the expense.
It’s bound to have other issue along the way, as all older vehicles do.
Personally, I would offer it up for breaking as the California has lots of useful expensive parts and start again. If it’s even possible to order new…???

As for going to Volkswagen for a new engine. That would be the last place I would go. They couldn’t do it right the first time…

10 years from now all of our vans will be having the engines ripped out and electric motors and batteries installed. If VW isn’t quick enough to make the offer, other businesses will.

 

[RockinNRollin]

They are gaslighting you. My 2014 140 has 120,000km on the clock and doesn’t use a drop of oil between services. In contrast to what VW is telling you, oil usage of 1 liter per 1000 miles is proof of a terminally damaged engine.

They're not gaslighting me (or at least, they're not succeeding) - as I said, I'm under no illusions that any measurable oil consumption in a modern engine is indicative of something wrong. Unfortunately though (unless anyone has evidence to the contrary), by publishing "acceptable specifications" of the oil consumption, they give themselves a get-out clause should anyone complain.

 

[WelshGas]

They're not gaslighting me (or at least, they're not succeeding) - as I said, I'm under no illusions that any measurable oil consumption in a modern engine is indicative of something wrong. Unfortunately though (unless anyone has evidence to the contrary), by publishing "acceptable specifications" of the oil consumption, they give themselves a get-out clause should anyone complain.

I had a RX8. Twin roter Wankel engine.
Fantastic drive and covered with warning stickers to check oil level. Would use 1L / 1000 miles from new. Even had a holder for a bottle of oil . Sump capacity about 3L.

 

[RoB5urf]

My sister had one. It was a great.....until it wasn't. Not sure the flawed Wankel design is a good comparison.

 

[clarinetbcn]

I had a RX8. Twin roter Wankel engine.
Fantastic drive and covered with warning stickers to check oil level. Would use 1L / 1000 miles from new. Even had a holder for a bottle of oil . Sump capacity about 3L.

I had an RX2, amazingly smooth, vibration free drive, comparable to an electric due to its inherently balanced design. But ultimately a failure because of high pollution levels, high fuel consumption and oil burning. Today no manufacturer will touch a rotary. BMW had a great idea with an experimental electric with a tiny rotary to recharge the battery, but had to give even that up.

 

[lohr500]

I had an RX2, amazingly smooth, vibration free drive, comparable to an electric due to its inherently balanced design. But ultimately a failure because of high pollution levels, high fuel consumption and oil burning. Today no manufacturer will touch a rotary.

Mazda are using a rotary as a range extender in their latest hybrid. Might work better at constant revs.

 

[clarinetbcn]

Mazda are using a rotary as a range extender in their latest hybrid. Might work better at constant revs.

With a whopping consumption rate of 9.7 liters per 100km, it looks as if the problem has yet to be solved.

“Based on Mazda's claimed petrol and electric driving range figures, the MX-30's rotary engine is consuming 9.7 litres per 100km – or double what the 2.0-litre mild-hybrid version of the MX-30 claims to use in mixed driving.”

2023 Mazda MX-30 R-EV range-extender hybrid: Rotary engine returns!

Mazda has revealed its first rotary-engined car in a decade – a city SUV with plug in hybrid power.

www.drive.com.au