Ocean vs Beach and some general questions

[WhisperingJ1979]

Depends on your source as presented by WG.

His is the only one I’ve seen, every result on google says up to 81…

It’s wild this has taken another turn


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[Ch1pbutty]

Best call it a draw guys…

 

[markcrawford55]

Wowsers. That escalated!!!

Appreciate the insight, esp the guys giving reasoned responses to their own experiences.

I’m leaning towards the ocean…. For sure neither are bad options.

the market is definitely softening, dealer with the ocean did counter… but I left it as I am in no immediate need/panic, they reduced their asking price in the last day or two… and I seem a missed call from them today, so who knows could be a deal done yet!

It’s high miles for a California tho… generally it seems the converted panel vans that have high miles.

 

[WelshGas]

Wowsers. That escalated!!!

Appreciate the insight, esp the guys giving reasoned responses to their own experiences.

I’m leaning towards the ocean…. For sure neither are bad options.

the market is definitely softening, dealer with the ocean did counter… but I left it as I am in no immediate need/panic, they reduced their asking price in the last day or two… and I seem a missed call from them today, so who knows could be a deal done yet!

It’s high miles for a California tho… generally it seems the converted panel vans that have high miles.

High miles and properly serviced v low miles and possibly inadequately serviced ?
The California is based on a commercial vehicle built to be used.

 

[andyinluton]

It’s high miles for a California tho… generally it seems the converted panel vans that have high miles.

Its high miles between oil changes as well - service carried out at 27k, 45k, 73k, 94k, 97k, 111k some large gaps in there. Vans a nice spec as well with DSG & the 3 zone climate & the extra small storage draw under the bench.

 

[markcrawford55]

Agree.

It’s also one owner and full VW history.

Prob only negative is some intervals are a fair chunk more than what they should have been…. Problem with buying from dealer is you get no context…. Maybe the owner did intermediate oil changes themselves.. or at a local service centre.

Given it’s the old 140hp. Likely no issue either way…

It’s not dangerous money for a California.. some high milage converted vans are not a lot less.

 

[andyinluton]

Agree.

It’s also one owner and full VW history.

Prob only negative is some intervals are a fair chunk more than what they should have been…. Problem with buying from dealer is you get no context…. Maybe the owner did intermediate oil changes themselves.. or at a local service centre.

Given it’s the old 140hp. Likely no issue either way…

It’s not dangerous money for a California.. some high milage converted vans are not a lot less.

Some one has spent some money on it, aside from the LED lights, the wheels are from a later model, the extra draw I didn't think was an option at that age & its got a few £100 of carpets in there.
At that age I would be looking very carefully at the condition of the roof canvas, any sign of corrosion to the roof edges & to the cap above the windscreen, you may be lucky, our first van was a 2015MY and had zero sign of anything wrong at 6 years old when we changed, look for signs of water damage or worse hydraulic oil stains on the headlining.

 

[markcrawford55]

I had asked the dealer about condition of roof/canvas generally… but git avert vanilla response.

They are essentially a car dealer. Trade in vans a bit too.

Surely roof/canvas and general bits should be better than a van of similar age that has been a conversion? Ie the California should surely be better roof, and general quality of bits inside..

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

If you make comments like this :-

We never wanted to “cook” in the van, it would stink,

then expect pushback comments because many owners of the SE/Ocean disagree and use their vehicles as intended by the manufacturer without these “ perceived “ problems made by non-owners.

I’m a dog owning fell runner. Cooking smells are the last of my worries!

 

[Borris]

@markcrawford55
Sorry, I haven't bothered reading all the previous posts so don't know where you are with this. The only reason I am writing this is that I am on a forced holiday, pet sitting whilst youngest daughter and family are away in the sun.

Over the years the roof canvas material on California models has undergone several changes. Generally, they have all been reasonably good at the task for which they have been designed. Earlier models (T5) had a canvas that was more open weave and therefore a little porous. It could let in damp, even water under certain conditions. Sometimes top deck bedding could become damp as a result. This problem was more accute when the van was new as the canvas needed to be soaked a few times to tighten up enough to provide maximum protection. If you are thinking of getting a T5 in particular or any newer model for that matter, then my advice is to fit an Isotop inner roof liner. These things are pricy but prevent damp, draughts, light ingress and provide excellent heat insulation improvements.

California roofs come in two forms 1. Electro/Hydraulic and 2. Manual. If you go for the Beach you will get the manual version. I have had both types and very good they both are. If you want ease of use then the E/H roof is very easy to use as long as you have a spare digit to press the button. However, you would need to buy the SE/Ocean to get one of those. The manual roof is also very quick, dare I say it, quicker. It's also easy to operate and is a brilliantly simple design. It's each to their own but frankly I have always felt that things should be kept as simple as possible if you want an uncomplicated life. As far as the California roof is concerned that is very good advise. Over the years, there have been numerous issues reported on this forum with E/H roofs. These issues can be extremely expensive to resolve when they occur outside of warranty. Otoh, the manual roof has presented very few issues mainly due to its simplicity.

The other issue with operating California roofs is the danger of damaging the roof canvas by catching it in the roof mechanism. To avoid this read the owners handbook and ensure you ALWAYS follow that advice to the letter. Accordingly, when buying second hand always check the canvas for damage of any kind.

The biggest issue though, is that of bi-metalic roof corrosion. If you are contemplating buying an older California then it is essential that you check for this before buying. For further advice look up Roof Corrosion on the search function and settle in for a very very long read. It may have had it and been fixed under warranty but .......... Well you've best read the various threads on the subject.

As to whether the California roof is better than those fitted to conversions, well I simply cannot advise. All I will say is that the california roof in either form represents an excellent design package even if IMO, the E/H version is unecessarily complicated. The whole deal has been let down in the past by the aforementioned Bi-metalic corrosion issue. VW have made modifications to redress that issue but I don't know enough about the subject to confirm whether those measures have done the trick.
I have looked at quite a few conversions over the time that I have owned Californias and have yet to find a pop top roof that exceeded the levels of design, fit and quality that VW have achieved. Mind you, there are so many companies doing conversions that I don't think that my limited experience is anything to go by. However, one serious advantage that most do have is that they don't corrode due to their roofs having been constructed of a composite material of some kind, such a Glass Reinforced Fibra.

 

[markcrawford55]

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply @Borris

I’ll go have a read of the corrosion issues, not something I was aware of. I assume from what you are saying it’s due to the materialised on California external surface of roof itself.. but I will get a coffee and go search!

From a water ingress perspective… am I to assume any issues generally present when the roof is up? Ie it can be an issue camping when raining? Or are there issues just generally with the roof leaking a bit when down and in normal day to day motoring/use?

Having had extremely major damp/water ingress on a full sized motorhome…. One thing I desperately want to avoid is anything similar happening again… but obv the VW is so much more straightforward in design.

 

[Borris]

To save you reading the whole sorry thread, the California roof corrosion problems were split into two separate issues:
1. The steel gripper component embedded in the pop top rubber roof seal had a nasty habit of reacting with the alluminium pop top shell. This occurred when the steel gripper worked its way through the rubber thus coming in contact with the alluminium of the pop top. Result, bi-metalic corrosion causing paint bubbles etc. On later models VW have since fitted a protective barrier tape between the two components. As to whether that cures the issue, well only time will tell.

2. The transversal aluminium roof section above the windscreen and forward of the pop top had a tendency to suffer from corrosion, in some cases serious perforated corrosion. I believe VW have since changed the manufacturing process to make this less likely.

With both issues, VW have acknowledged the problems and have in many cases, carried out repairs via their approved repaired centres, sometimes at nil cost to the customer. In the case of issue 2, I believe the repair involved fitting a plastic cap over this whole section effectively acting as a sticking plaster to cover the damage. I can't comment on how good these repairs have been but I have seen some pretty ghastly photos on this forum.

If considering a purchase, best check these areas and ensure that remedial work has been done if required.

The water/ingree issues aren't really a major issue and only occur when the pop top is up in bad weather. A good example would be if wind and heavy driving rain were playing on one side of the pop top for a prolonged period. The water would wick through the canvas pooling on the roof frame beneath. Any bedding can get wet in the process. An external or internal liner will prevent this. Later models have different canvas which is less prone.

 

[markcrawford55]

Thanks… read that, and must be honest…. Has made me swing back to look for converted vans!

In particular…. Being in NI, in most cases I’ll be sale agreeing.. or at least committing one way or another before I physically view, and I don’t have time nor patience to view a load of vans to suss out corrosion!! So I very much appreciate the heads up. Albeit it’s not clear from a long read at that thread is whether the issues were properly addressed if it was sorted by repair… ie if I found a California that had been ‘fixed’ is that it? Or just time till it likely comes back.

One thing I am keen on is the seat on rails.

 

[andyinluton]

Thanks… read that, and must be honest…. Has made me swing back to look for converted vans!

In particular…. Being in NI, in most cases I’ll be sale agreeing.. or at least committing one way or another before I physically view, and I don’t have time nor patience to view a load of vans to suss out corrosion!! So I very much appreciate the heads up. Albeit it’s not clear from a long read at that thread is whether the issues were properly addressed if it was sorted by repair… ie if I found a California that had been ‘fixed’ is that it? Or just time till it likely comes back.

One thing I am keen on is the seat on rails.

If it was closer I would go and take some photos for you.

Ask the seller for some close up photos of the edges of the roof & of the cap above the windscreen & ask if it's had any work done. Not all vans were affected.

Re comparing with a converted van, don't do it unless you are looking for something totally different ie a high top or LWB. having driven many miles in transporter "builders vans" which form the basis of most conversions, they tend to be a lot lower spec, smaller engines and an awful lot noisier.

One hidden benefit is that most insurance companies know what a California is & it's possible to get quotes from mainstream insurers rather than having to go with specialists.

 

[Corradobrit]

Thanks… read that, and must be honest…. Has made me swing back to look for converted vans!

In particular…. Being in NI, in most cases I’ll be sale agreeing.. or at least committing one way or another before I physically view, and I don’t have time nor patience to view a load of vans to suss out corrosion!! So I very much appreciate the heads up. Albeit it’s not clear from a long read at that thread is whether the issues were properly addressed if it was sorted by repair… ie if I found a California that had been ‘fixed’ is that it? Or just time till it likely comes back.

One thing I am keen on is the seat on rails.

And converted vans are a hornets nest. Unless you know it was done by a very reputable company. I would be particularly cautious regarding any aftermarket electrical work.
When VW build a Cali they don't just take a panel van T6.1 and hack a hole in the roof for the poptop. There are strengthening elements added to stiffen the chassis. This is critical for stability of the interior elements and for safety. There is a reason why Calis have so few creaks and rattles emanating from the leisure fixtures even after years of use.
Retained resale value is a whole other story.
Find a good one, have the seller take lots of high Rez pics, check the service history and if there are any accidents showing on the records. Listen to your gut and buy the seller first and foremost. Put a returnable deposit on it then go see and drive it. Honestly it will be worth the effort.

 

[andyinluton]

In particular…. Being in NI, in most cases I’ll be sale agreeing.. or at least committing one way or another before I physically view, and I don’t have time nor patience to view a load of vans to suss out corrosion!!

Theres a white 150 DSG van on auto trader that looks to be similar mileage similar price but a few years newer, that looks to have a better spec. It's in Nottingham, from what I can see from the photos it looks to be a well cared for van .

Its a T6 ocean & has adblu so should be ok on emissions in most places for a while.

The 150 engine in the T6 has very similar performance figures as the 180 in the T5.1, I think they changed the gearing.

I have no connection with the seller & am only going by the photos supplied.

 

[Borris]

Thanks… read that, and must be honest…. Has made me swing back to look for converted vans!

In particular…. Being in NI, in most cases I’ll be sale agreeing.. or at least committing one way or another before I physically view, and I don’t have time nor patience to view a load of vans to suss out corrosion!! So I very much appreciate the heads up. Albeit it’s not clear from a long read at that thread is whether the issues were properly addressed if it was sorted by repair… ie if I found a California that had been ‘fixed’ is that it? Or just time till it likely comes back.

One thing I am keen on is the seat on rails.

Don't be put off buying a California. They are by far the best option. Generally the corrosion on most Californias isn't a big issue if present at all. You just need to ensure you have personally checked it and have asked about previous remedial work.

Yes, there have been issues but the California is a much better proposition than most conversions. Firstly, it will hold it's value much better. Secondly, generally they are much better built by VW only. Conversions are just that, a converted commercial vehicle many of which have already led a hard life before reaching the converters and many are of a low basic spec. These vehicles are then converted to varying standards from rough and ready through to absolutely superb, depending on the company. Even when finished you may have two organisations to deal with if problems occur. VW for the base vehicle and the converter for the conversion. Fine if all is well but these two organisations will have opposing interests if you discover an issue that straddles both elements. Since their vehicle has been converted by a third party, VW will naturaly tend to try and swerve responsibility in such cases.

Finally, if you are thinking of spending your hard earned on anything of value, make sure that you properly inspect it in person and in this case that includes carrying out an online vehicle history search. This search should be the first thing you do before going anywhere near the vehicle. That search report will tell you everything you need to know about that vehicle such as, has it ever been in an accident? Or has it ever been stolen? Is the recorded mileage accurate? Has it got oustanding finance against it? This last point is of great importance because if it has, then even if you were to buy it the vehicle would still belong to the finance company. I know this can be a pain but you could end up saving yourself a lot of expense and heartache. These vehicle checks can be bought as a bundle so you have so many checks if you are looking at several vehicles. They aren't expensive and could end up being the best money youv'e ever spent. Car Vertical is one such company but there are others.

There are check lists that you can refer to in the resources section. At the very least get someone else that you trust with mechanical expertise to check it over. NEVER EVER buy blind.

 

[Corradobrit]

Don't be put off buying a California. They are by far the best option. Generally the corrosion on most Californias isn't a big issue if present at all. You just need to ensure you have personally checked it and have asked about previous remedial work.

Yes, there have been issues but the California is a much better proposition than most conversions. Firstly, it will hold it's value much better. Secondly, generally they are much better built by VW only. Conversions are just that, a converted commercial vehicle many of which have already led a hard life before reaching the converters and many are of a low basic spec. These vehicles are then converted to varying standards from rough and ready through to absolutely superb, depending on the company. Even when finished you may have two organisations to deal with if problems occur. VW for the base vehicle and the converter for the conversion. Fine if all is well but these two organisations will have opposing interests if you discover an issue that straddles both elements. Since their vehicle has been converted by a third party, VW will naturaly tend to try and swerve responsibility in such cases.

Finally, if you are thinking of spending your hard earned on anything of value, make sure that you properly inspect it in person and in this case that includes carrying out an online vehicle history search. This search should be the first thing you do before going anywhere near the vehicle. That search report will tell you everything you need to know about that vehicle such as, has it ever been in an accident? Or has it ever been stolen? Is the recorded mileage accurate? Has it got oustanding finance against it? This last point is of great importance because if it has, then even if you were to buy it the vehicle would still belong to the finance company. I know this can be a pain but you could end up saving yourself a lot of expense and heartache. These vehicle checks can be bought as a bundle so you have so many checks if you are looking at several vehicles. They aren't expensive and could end up being the best money youv'e ever spent. Car Vertical is one such company but there are others.

There are check lists that you can refer to in the resources section. At the very least get someone else that you trust with mechanical expertise to check it over. NEVER EVER buy blind.

Sage advice to heed

 

[markcrawford55]

Theres a white 150 DSG van on auto trader that looks to be similar mileage similar price but a few years newer, that looks to have a better spec. It's in Nottingham, from what I can see from the photos it looks to be a well cared for van .

Its a T6 ocean & has adblu so should be ok on emissions in most places for a while.

The 150 engine in the T6 has very similar performance figures as the 180 in the T5.1, I think they changed the gearing.

I have no connection with the seller & am only going by the photos supplied.

thanks Andy - i must be being blind... i cant see a T6 Cali matching that description ? could you send the link if you get a chance ?

 

[markcrawford55]

Don't be put off buying a California. They are by far the best option. Generally the corrosion on most Californias isn't a big issue if present at all. You just need to ensure you have personally checked it and have asked about previous remedial work.

Yes, there have been issues but the California is a much better proposition than most conversions. Firstly, it will hold it's value much better. Secondly, generally they are much better built by VW only. Conversions are just that, a converted commercial vehicle many of which have already led a hard life before reaching the converters and many are of a low basic spec. These vehicles are then converted to varying standards from rough and ready through to absolutely superb, depending on the company. Even when finished you may have two organisations to deal with if problems occur. VW for the base vehicle and the converter for the conversion. Fine if all is well but these two organisations will have opposing interests if you discover an issue that straddles both elements. Since their vehicle has been converted by a third party, VW will naturaly tend to try and swerve responsibility in such cases.

Finally, if you are thinking of spending your hard earned on anything of value, make sure that you properly inspect it in person and in this case that includes carrying out an online vehicle history search. This search should be the first thing you do before going anywhere near the vehicle. That search report will tell you everything you need to know about that vehicle such as, has it ever been in an accident? Or has it ever been stolen? Is the recorded mileage accurate? Has it got oustanding finance against it? This last point is of great importance because if it has, then even if you were to buy it the vehicle would still belong to the finance company. I know this can be a pain but you could end up saving yourself a lot of expense and heartache. These vehicle checks can be bought as a bundle so you have so many checks if you are looking at several vehicles. They aren't expensive and could end up being the best money youv'e ever spent. Car Vertical is one such company but there are others.

There are check lists that you can refer to in the resources section. At the very least get someone else that you trust with mechanical expertise to check it over. NEVER EVER buy blind.

thanks - yea.. for sure I'd be doing the usual HPI (even on dealer vans - as you never know !!)

at least armed with knowledge of the corrosion potential... i can go into any viewing aware.. its something i was never aware nor would have thought of

there is a company here in NI that build vans from brand new supplied (supplied by VW) Vans and are properly registered as campers and type approved... I would rather not spend the money for a new van - but given i don't 'need' to buy one at the moment, that may be an option early next year - and just spend the next few months putting a few more quite aside

 

[andyinluton]

thanks Andy - i must be being blind... i cant see a T6 Cali matching that description ? could you send the link if you get a chance ?

Its now showing deposit received.

I used Autotrader.co.uk - then importantly the "vans section" to search for vw california sort by cheapest first & its 4th in the list of 140 vans shown.

 

[markcrawford55]

Its now showing deposit received.

I used Autotrader.co.uk - then importantly the "vans section" to search for vw california sort by cheapest first & its 4th in the list of 140 vans shown.

ah - see it now !! i had only been looking under motorhomes..... they had that one well hidden !