Road tax

[Borris]

It turns out that three times as many people aren't bothering to pay anyway, since the tax disc was abolished:
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...s-tax-disc-abolition-vehicle-excise-duty-dvla

I wouldn't want to make an insurance claim on an untaxed vehicle. Insurance companies don't need much of an excuse to reject a claim and leaving aside the odd exceptions, if the vehicle isn't taxed it shouldn't be on the road. I am sure that many Insurance Companies would also take that view especially if it concerns a potentially expensive pay out. If the vehicle is an expensive Cali why would anyone take that risk?

More people might pay for tax and insurance if both the chances of being caught were higher and the fines once prosceuted, always greatly exceeded the cost of the original VED and Insurance costs. It is all too common to read in the local papers that so-and-so has been fined £190 or so for driving without insurance. If you have that mindset, then what incentive is there to buy expensive motor insurance when the chances of getting your collar felt are negligible and if you are, your'e only likely to get a small fine that is nowhere comparable to the cost of insuring. The current system seems as if it were designed to encourage more people to break the law.

Not having the money isn't a valid excuse.

 

[mccp]

Not having the money isn't a valid excuse.

Quite, although the article I linked makes the point that new new system that replaced the old tax discs makes it very easy to forget when your tax is due and also doesn't provide any obvious reminder when you buy a secondhand car privately. That means a lot of vehicles are untaxed through forgetfulness rather than through lack of money.

 

[Velma's Dad]

I wouldn't want to make an insurance claim on an untaxed vehicle. Insurance companies don't need much of an excuse to reject a claim and leaving aside the odd exceptions, if the vehicle isn't taxed it shouldn't be on the road. I am sure that many Insurance Companies would also take that view especially if it concerns a potentially expensive pay out. If the vehicle is an expensive Cali why would anyone take that risk?

Like you Borris I wouldn't knowingly drive an untaxed vehicle at all. But whether not having VED is valid ground for denying an insurance claim has been discussed here before and it seems to me quite clear that it can't be (even if the insurer might initially try it on, and despite lazy press articles that imply this, with monotonous regularity).

I don't have the link to hand, but as I recall it's very clear that the financial ombudsman will find in the insured's favour if the insurer tried to deny a claim on that basis. In the same way, my household insurer couldn't deny a claim for theft or damage to my house just because I hadn't paid my council tax.

The same is true for having no MOT, except indirectly insofar as a defect actually contributed to the accident.

The only thing they could do is to reduce any total loss payment by the value of the unpaid tax as it affects the vehicle's value (and now that VED doesn't 'follow through' at sale, I'm not sure even of that).

 

[Jabberwocky]

When one sells a second hand car you (the seller) have to complete part of the V5C document which includes the name and address of the new owner before sending the form, signed by you both, to DVLA. The DVLA then know the new owners details and send them a V11 form (Reminder to get vehicle taxed......). The new owner ignores this at their peril. Not sure there is too much space for forgetting, or have I missed something? Mrs JW says probably!!.

 

[B J G]

VED isn't transferable now when you sell a car, you get an automatic refund when you inform the DVLA. Online change of ownership notification is easy and instant.

Legally the new owner can't even drive it home without first paying for VED.

 

[westfalia]

386€ for mine in germany. 2.5 diesel.

 

[Amarillo]

VED isn't transferable now when you sell a car, you get an automatic refund when you inform the DVLA. Online change of ownership notification is easy and instant.

Legally the new owner can't even drive it home without first paying for VED.

Interesting.

I sold my Peugeot on 28 February and picked up my Beach on 1 March. I was refunded my VED for March, so paid no extra VED by being carless overnight.

As VED can only be bought and refunded for full months, is there any way a buyer and seller can avoid paying an extra month's VED other than by transferring ownership at 00:00 on the first of the month?


Follow my blog: www.au-revoir.eu

 

[Borris]

Like you Borris I wouldn't knowingly drive an untaxed vehicle at all. But whether not having VED is valid ground for denying an insurance claim has been discussed here before and it seems to me quite clear that it can't be (even if the insurer might initially try it on, and despite lazy press articles that imply this, with monotonous regularity).

I don't have the link to hand, but as I recall it's very clear that the financial ombudsman will find in the insured's favour if the insurer tried to deny a claim on that basis. In the same way, my household insurer couldn't deny a claim for theft or damage to my house just because I hadn't paid my council tax.

The same is true for having no MOT, except indirectly insofar as a defect actually contributed to the accident.

The only thing they could do is to reduce any total loss payment by the value of the unpaid tax as it affects the vehicle's value (and now that VED doesn't 'follow through' at sale, I'm not sure even of that).

Well if that's true, I'm amazed.

 

[Pete_Hampton]

...notification is easy and instant.

Sold a car last week - refund cheque arrived in just working days. Notification was very quick and easy online.

Legally the new owner can't even drive it home without first paying for VED.

I sold to a dealer who drove it away and displayed his trade plates - so hopefully that was ok (?).

 

[andyinluton]

Hello Amazed - previously known as Borris.

You need insurance to be in place before you can buy the tax, therefore it stands to reason that you can have a car insured but not taxed.
Have you ever had a broker or insurance company ask you if the vehicle is taxed? if it was grounds for voiding your insurance its probably as important a question as whats your mileage.

 

[WelshGas]

Quite, although the article I linked makes the point that new new system that replaced the old tax discs makes it very easy to forget when your tax is due and also doesn't provide any obvious reminder when you buy a secondhand car privately. That means a lot of vehicles are untaxed through forgetfulness rather than through lack of money.

Don’t see how you can forget - I have just received the Paper Renewal Document as usual.

 

[andyinluton]

If you do it by direct debit you don't need to do anything at all, they just help themselves to the money.

 

[Broch Hunter]

If you do it by direct debit you don't need to do anything at all, they just help themselves to the money.

My daughter's car is £0 rated for VED. She recently had to go online and renew her VED for another 12 months at £0. As there was no direct debit involved, auto renewal did not apply and she would have been subject to a fine if she had not 'renewed'.

 

[B J G]

My daughter's car is £0 rated for VED. She recently had to go online and renew her VED for another 12 months at £0. As there was no direct debit involved, auto renewal did not apply and she would have been subject to a fine if she had not 'renewed'.

Yes. Have to do the same with my £0 historic car, they do check if MOT & Insurance valid at the same time but could do that automatically.

 

[B J G]

386€ for mine in germany. 2.5 diesel.

Don't know how your fuel is taxed in Germany but as Diesel is currently £1.20 per litre there is £0.20 VAT taken plus £0.58 fuel duty meaning £0.78 tax per litre. That equates to £54.60 per 70 litre tank full on a standard Cali.

Rough guestimate based on 10,000 miles per year gives £1,130 tax from fuel and £450 from VED.
Chilling figures. There goes a chunk of my State Pension back - recycling.

Note! Just approximation you can work out your own specific figures.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Note! Just approximation you can work out your own specific figures.

Not sure I want to work it out... Death and Taxes, both inevitable.

 

[B J G]

Not sure I want to work it out... Death and Taxes, both inevitable.

Delaying both for as long as possible is my philosophy.

 

[briwy]

Think I'll sell the Cali and get a forty year old camper to go with my MGB. No tax at all then.

 

[SimonB]

An interesting, and worrying, fact that I was told by a DVLA man who was driving round my area checking for untaxed cars.
If your MOT expires and before you renew it, apart from probably having no insurance, your car tax is automatically cancelled as well, presumably by the DVLA computer.

 

[sdes]

Think I'll sell the Cali and get a forty year old camper to go with my MGB. No tax at all then.

Good idea, I had a lovely 1956 23 window split screen VW that I spent three years converting into a camper when it got stolen off a residents bay in Islington.
When I reported it, as soon as I said it was a VW camper, the police weren't interested. "If it was something unusual, like a Porsche, we'd be able to keep an eye out for it" I was told, it was the only 1956 LHD 23 window in the UK at the time, so quite unusual!
Now have a boring old 2007 Cali 2.5 polluting diesel because VW don't make anything other than diesel campers. It is worth about 1/5th as much as the 23 window would be worth today. Being 1956 was a "classic" so zero VED despite a 2.4 Porsche "surprise" engine in the back), the only good news is that because the Cali is 2007, it qualifies for a lower VED rate at about £200.

I had spent about £35k converting and restoring the split-screen, sadly had yet to update the "agreed value classic insurance" so the £12k I got back didn't go far towards a California! A lesson learned.

I'm guessing that at least most Cali's don't live on resident parking bays, so you can count yourselves "slightly lucky"

Islington already charge an extra £100 / year for diesel on top of a £400 ((calculated on engine emissions / year "normal" parking permit ), as of today they will also charge an extra £2 / hour to park a diesel on a parking meter.

One thing we should all remember I guess, Taxation isn't designed to be fair, otherwise we wouldn't all be helping our illustrious F1 champion, (who apparently feels the British people haven't taken him to their hearts as they should have done), be £3m richer skipping VAT on his private jet.

 

[andyinluton]

An interesting, and worrying, fact that I was told by a DVLA man who was driving round my area checking for untaxed cars.
If your MOT expires and before you renew it, apart from probably having no insurance, your car tax is automatically cancelled as well, presumably by the DVLA computer.

Absolute rubbish!

You can Insure a car that isn't taxed
You can insure a car that isn't MOTd
You can in some circumstances drive an untaxed un MOTd str on a public road as long as it is insured.
You can't tax a car that isn't insured & MOTd

 

[Wendy]

I notice that you have a T5 high top, is this a Cali or van conversion?

Genuine Cali

 

[jts46]

An interesting, and worrying, fact that I was told by a DVLA man who was driving round my area checking for untaxed cars.
If your MOT expires and before you renew it, apart from probably having no insurance, your car tax is automatically cancelled as well, presumably by the DVLA computer.

Then taken away and crushed, hopefully

 

[Docmark]

Well the news is not good - worse than the above threads - the super tax from april 17 for vehicles with a manufacturers list price (no discounts taken in) over £40,000 is £450 per year for the first 6 years - thereafter it will be calculated on the emissions. VW has not helped in this with the Beach by advertising the starting price as below 40k but when vat is added it comes out about 1.5k above - which is what counts with HMR!
I found this out when buying an ex-demonstrator in sept/oct.!! I can however reassure myself that even taking in the tax hike I am still getting more value to me than if I had gone to a private firm of convertors where the panel vans used would be taxed less because they cost <40k - and the conversion would sell for a lot more than 40k!
However the story may not end there - we have a ruthless government in at present who are out looking for money and lux. vehicles are seen as fair game - the argument is that if you can afford to buy you can afford to pay more hidden tax.

 

[andyinluton]

£450 per year for the first 6 years - thereafter it will be calculated on the emissions.

Not quite - after the six years its calculated on fuel type, currently a flat rate of £140 year for
all petrol & diesel with 100% electric vehicles being £0 and alternative fuel ones being £130

After 6 years an aftermarket conversion would be taxed £240 per year & a genuine cali at £140 at todays rates.

In the post March 2017 regime Its worth noting that petrol & diesel have not been split into separate categories. If it was the intention to tax diesels out of existence you would have expected them to be separate.