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Security summary

benArrayx

benArrayx

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Hi all, I've been doing lots of reading and thinking around security, while waiting for the delivery of my new van :)

As far as I see it, there is robbery with keys, or robbery without keys.

For robbery without keys, there are various methods:

1. Key and immobiliser hacking, needs specialised technology and is only available to hi-tech thieves. Search google for 'car thief hack', there are loads of articles about this. These thieves could be defeated by an extra security such as described here.

2. Towing the vehicle. Not sure how the thieves get access to drive the car later, but anyway that's their problem, you've still lost your vehicle. Best protection against this is to park with your wheels turned and the steering lock applied as far as I can determine, also not parking on the street, but that's more difficult when you're away from home, and if you don't have a garage!! Also the same physical deterrents as mentioned in the post linked above (assuming they're obvious!).

Robbery with keys:

3. If the thieves get hold of your keys (either by entering the house, or physically from you), then presumably they will also have the keys to all your physical deterrents mentioned here, which renders them useless, unless they are hidden - but hiding them stops them being a deterrent to towing for example. That's unless you keep the keys to your physical barriers separate from the van keys, but I for one wouldn't do that, it's already difficult enough keeping track of 1 set of keys!! In this case, you are screwed since they have access to everything with the keys and can do as they like.

In the latter case, the only thing that could stop the theft would be a system that requires further knowledge to start the van, either hidden physical protection, or 'virtual' protection such as a hidden switch, immobiliser sequence, or a visible pin keypad such as the Autowatch Keyguard. These used to be really fashionable about 20 years ago, but I hardly ever see them anymore, not sure why not??

So, the only sure protection I can see is a keypad, or a hidden physical device that will stop someone for long enough, even though they may have the key for it. Bearing in mind that 'long enough' may need to be hours if you are not at home and are away from the vehicle.

As such, I think I'm going to be going for a keypad, although I'm not clear on the warranty position - I'm sure this must be supported since so many hot hatches used to have them, I can't imagine everybody was willing to break their warranty. Or unless anybody here can give a good reason why they're not a good idea!
 
H

Hotel California

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Cover up your VIN-number to to the left underside on your front windscreen
One with knowledge and acces to machines to make keys can make copy's by reference of that number ...thats how VW does it also...
I got a Bearlock on my DSG , Cali locked in my garage keys hidden.
On site always Bearlock on keys out of reach .
If i lose my key say in forreign country ....got a spare door key hidden on my Cali ...no do not tell anyone where is sits...

If they ask it propperly with a gun pointed at me offcoars i do hand the keys over ...
Have fun ....
 
benArrayx

benArrayx

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143
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T6 Cali On Order
Hi hotel california, my point is with the bear lock that if one day a thief did get hold of your keys they would be able to bypass the bearlock. I appreciate that maybe you are very good at hiding your keys, others might not be...

A keypad or hidden physical device mitigates that risk.

Also if your van gets towed the bearlock will not help since they cojl
 
benArrayx

benArrayx

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T6 Cali On Order
Oops, since they could dismantle it, I meant to say.

I'm not sure if a keypad can be dismantled without significant amounts of work?
 
H

Hotel California

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Did not heard from the " keypad" you mentiont .
Just note that every care is to be stolen whatever the anti-theft protection ....
Read my last frase above....
Just try not get paranoid and try to focus on enjoying the wonerfull Cali and the trips we do in it.
Use the things you feel best with we are just giving and sharing expiriences here...

Btw :thumb for you summary note above on what we now sofar , will help others .
 
WelshGas

WelshGas

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If they want your vehicle they will get it.


1. CAR ALARMS
– Who hasn't heard and ignored a car alarm? People have become desensitized to them due to so many false alarms. A national survey by the Progressive Insurance Company found that fewer than 1% of people would call the police if they heard a car alarm going off. Countless vehicles equipped with car alarm systems have been stolen. Many alarms can be bypassed right under the dash in a matter of seconds. The fact that car alarm manufacturers often color code the alarm wires according to their function makes it even easier for a thief familiar with the system to defeat it. Car thieves use a code grabber or scanner that can disarm some remote control alarm systems from up to several hundred feet away. Even some alarm systems that claim to have anti-scan or anti-code grabbing technology can still be disarmed, as demonstrated on CBS’s The Early Show and 48 Hours. A massive study undertaken by the nonprofit Highway Loss Data Institute, which examined over 73 million insurance claims, found that cars with alarms “show no overall reduction in theft losses” compared to cars without alarms. Several nonprofit groups have even worked to have noisemaker car alarms banned, citing that they are ‘alarmingly useless’.

2. TRACKING SYSTEMS – Tracking systems come into play only after the vehicle has been stolen, doing nothing to prevent the actual theft. The problem with this is that by the time the victim reports his or her vehicle stolen, it may have already been stripped and dumped. Thieves use sophisticated debugging equipment to locate and dispose of hidden tracking devices, drive the stolen cars out of range, or block the tracking signals by parking stolen vehicles in certain covered areas. Even cars that are recovered without being stripped still often have significant damages. Substantial effort can also be required in cleaning and odor removal once the car has been returned. Further, these systems are not available in all areas, and they are expensive ($695 and up, often with a monthly fee). Even in the best-case scenario for a tracking system of a car being stolen and recovered with little damage, the car was still stolen, and that information is made publicly available on vehicle history reports such as CarFax. People are reluctant to buy a car that has been stolen, and vehicle owners can lose hundreds or thousands of dollars in the resale value of their cars after a theft. Wouldn't you prefer to prevent your vehicle from being stolen in the first place?

3. FACTORY SECURITY SYSTEMS – Essentially every new foreign or domestic vehicle manufactured today comes with a factory-installed security system that requires the ‘real’ ignition key for the car to start. These factory immobilizers have made it more difficult to steal cars than it once was, but these systems alone are not sufficient protection to prevent a car from being stolen. For example, the Cadillac Escalade continues to rank highest in overall theft losses of all vehicles on the road. According to the editors at MSN Auto: "The Escalade's theft losses have been the highest in recent years even though this vehicle is equipped with a standard anti-theft ignition immobilizer which is designed to prevent the vehicle from being started without the proper key." There are various ways thieves can bypass factory-installed security systems to steal a vehicle. Common techniques include computer swapping and overriding the factory security system with a laptop computer. Some thieves simply acquire the key to the car they plan to steal by copying the VIN from the car’s dash in advance and then going to a dealership and pretending to be a needy customer who’s lost his car key. Earlier versions of the current factory immobilizer systems can be wired around right under the dash. A national automotive magazine even published information on how to bypass these systems. Please do not believe any car salesman who claims that your vehicle cannot be stolen because of its factory-installed security system, because this is simply not true.

4. THE CLUB and the AUTOLOCK – Widely advertised, The Club is probably the best-known antitheft product on the market today. But as demonstrated on CBS's American Journal, a car thief using a hacksaw can cut through the vehicle's steering wheel and remove The Club in just 22 seconds! The program also demonstrated how a thief can spray freon into the locking mechanism of The Club, hit the now frozen lock with a hammer, and shatter it like glass, enabling him to remove The Club. In addition, there is a device called the Club Buster, which claims to break The Club and AutoLock devices in 60 seconds. The Club Buster is intended for locksmiths, tow truck operators, and auto repossession professionals, but a thief can buy it over the internet right now for $90

5. REMOTE STARTER KILLS – Many car dealers sell and promote this type of device because it is very easy to install and the dealer can charge up to $499 for it. The customers will never know the difference and will think that they are getting top security for their dollar. This device comes with a remote control and a special re-worked starter relay that replaces the factory starter relay in the vehicle's power distribution box. The power distribution box is very easy to access directly under the hood of the vehicle. All the thief has to do is to lift the cover of the box, pull out the relay, replace it with any factory relay (cost $2) and drive the vehicle off. The remote control on this device can be scanned and bypassed with a scanner box very easily in seconds.

6. RF TAG SECURITY – This system works with a RF Frequency transmitter that automatically sends a signal to a relay (starter, fuel pump, etc.) that replaces a factory relay in the power distribution box or fuse relay box in the engine compartment of the vehicle enabling it to work. The key or transmitter can be in the form of a key or a small round plastic cylinder that attaches to the vehicle owner's key chain. When the driver is in the range of a vehicle fitted with this system the circuits will operate. Thieves know about this device and easily replace the special relay with a $2 factory one to defeat this system.

7. TOUCH SENSORS – These devices hook up to the starter wire under the dash. An existing part of the vehicle, such as the cruise control button, the high beam lever, the wiper switch, or even a radio knob becomes the trigger for this device. The driver has to touch this "secret switch" in order to start the vehicle. These devices all work in conjunction with relays that continuously burn up due to the high amperage from the starter wire to which they are connected. Most of them even have a toggle switch which allows a person to override the system. Car thieves frequently bypass these devices.

8. FLAT PLUG DEVICES – These devices are all mounted below the dash. The connections are very simple to make and only go to each end of the starter wire beneath the dash. The more sophisticated models include a red flashing light . . . which has nothing at all to do with the device's ability to deter theft. It is merely a red light that either blinks or burns continuously. Car thieves can overcome these devices in seconds by using a jumper wire or even with an "old fashioned" hat pin, simply by sticking it through one wire and into the other. They typically only have a maximum of six different combinations. Most of the companies that have manufactured flat plug devices have gone out of business.

9. KEYPAD SYSTEMS – These systems connect to the starter wire under the dash. They can be defeated in seconds by locating the "brain box" of the keypad (which usually is wire-tied or taped to the steering column under the dash) and then touching the two contacts with a jumper wire.


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motacyclist

motacyclist

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Just checked, it's still there. Checking again next year (ie in 10 minutes) :D
 
Batmobile

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As with all security, whether you are building a castle or dealing with terrorists, you are advised to build in multiple layers. Not only does it increase the planning, preparation and resources required by your adversary, but it introduces multiple points of potential failure and increases the total time required to defeat them all (and time = risk to them). Single layer security is largely a waste of time, especially if the layer is visible or can be assumed (i.e. manufacturer installed standard equipment).

Going for lots of layers, including some hidden ones, even if they are not individually 'the best' would be my advice. I am aware of a terrorist incident that penetrated a well protected, hardened, CCTV-laden compound after a vulnerability was found.... but they ended up being defeated by a fly screen door, which cost them a few seconds too many.

I've been thinking through security for my Cali and haven't decided what I will do yet. Mine will be parked on the street outside my home, so not the best start!
 
benArrayx

benArrayx

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Wow, that was a pretty comprehensive review WelshGas!! I also agree with you Batmobile that multi layer security is best. I also like the idea of a simple fuel cutoff switch that has to be disabled before every start, easily overridden (if you know where it is) but just one more hurdle to prevent it being quickly driven off. Not sure about warranty issues though?

WelshGas, you missed one possible security layer i referred to which is the immobilizer sequence post linked in my original post. Given that this is CANBUS programming, there's no external way for a thief to disable it, they would have to get into the CANBUS to undo that setting. However I'm nervous about this because I only know 1 company offering this, they're in Preston, I'm in Barcelona, I'm unsure about any potential warranty issues, and if there's any problem with it I can't easily get to Preston for them to sort it!!

Also in terms of the keypad systems, seriously ALL of these can be defeated by touching wires together? Surely there must be a manufacturer with a more intelligent solution?

Hotel California, don't worry I will be enjoying my new purchase to the max, but I also believe it's worth thinking about security a little bit! Don't want to be paranoid, but I do want to protect my investment in my new lifestyle!!

Happy New Year all :)

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SimonB

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Over the years I've had a few cars broken into. In the days of slide in radios, I took the radio into the house, they knicked the case it slid into. Then with the lift off front radios, I had the front in the house, they had the back of the radio. I had a door panel punctured by thieves so they could unlock it, when I armoured it they just used stronger tools. They even cut the battery cables to stop the alarm going off. Not easy to do from underneath the car.
With the number of people that park cars around here with coats on show, laptops, sat navs on the screen, mobiles on the seat, etc, etc I hope they will pick the easy ones first.
If they want your Cali, they will get it, as Welsh Gas says. If you put too many layers of security in you might just not be bothered to arm them all. You can be just unlucky.
I hope you are one of the lucky ones benArrayx and you get a lot of fun out of your new Cali. When I had all those issues before I just got paranoid and all the fun I got out of the car was gone. I was always worried about what was going to happen to it next.
Happy New Year to you all. Simon
 
WelshGas

WelshGas

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Good Insurance is Paramount - NOT necessarily the cheapest.
1. Car Breakins to steal valuables. These are smash and grab. They are very quick and there is no defence. Don't leave valuables on show.
2. Theft of vehicle. a. Towing away. Don't leave it with easy access to a tow truck winch cable and a straight line winch pull. Leave it in gear with steering at an angle at the very least.
b. Key theft. Remember if they can get the key then they can get you or a family member.
c. Without Keys - Disable immobiliser, break steering lock, start vehicle and drive away. Takes time.

1. I can do something about and cope with it.
2 b . If that happens then I don't want it back. If they are that dangerous then they can have it. My and my family safety is paramount.
 
WelshGas

WelshGas

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Just got this little item from a link on the T5 forum in that other place.
Advertised for the T5 clutch. I have a DSG box. Fits on the Brake peddle. A little movement that allows the engine to start - you have to depress brake if you have the DSG box to start engine. BUT prevents engaging R or D so you cannot drive. Pretty hefty construction, good lock, awkward position to cut through so will help if keys not present.IMG_20160102_121617[1].jpgIMG_20160102_121551[5].jpg
 
benArrayx

benArrayx

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T6 Cali On Order
Can you post the link please WelshGas?

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snowy55

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This type of pedal lock won't fit my clutch pedal but it will fit the brake pedal on a manual Cali.
The clutch pedal is a wide nylon affair.

This shows the wide clutch pedal.

20160102_143148_zps2et31eoy.jpg





I've made a lock bar you can fit whilst sat in the seat.

20160102_143343_zpsoyq975cj.jpg
 
benArrayx

benArrayx

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Ordered, thanks WelshGas :)

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shane

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I ordered my Cali in Switzerland and the alarm was an option which I thought was strange. the dealer told me not to bother adding it as they just annoy people when they go off. I added it anyway in case that one day I bring it back to the UK as most insurance companies require one to be fitted. He did though recommend the Bear lock for when staying in Italy! Is Italy as bad as the UK!!:shocked
 
H

Hotel California

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My 2012 came without alarm think it only got the startinterupter but not interieuralarm, don't bother ...imo. nobody reacts when sound goes off , thieves can bypass alarm anyway.
 

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